Proof of God (Gnosticism = Knowledge is Power)

[Piney]

59 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

An honest prayer begins with "God grant me the strength" because the plumbing isn't going to re-route itself to still provide water while waiting for a new water heater....

That's still asking.

The prayer should be "I will have the strength".

[Will Due]

 

"Ask (sincerely) and you shall receive"

 

 

[XenoFish]

30 minutes ago, Piney said:

That's still asking.

The prayer should be "I will have the strength".

Eh, kinda the same. The idea of a deity might be an anchor point for inner strength. A tool of sorts. A magical placebo. Some need that. If the effect is the same, the cause doesn't matter all that much. At least I suppose it doesn't. 

[Piney]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Eh, kinda the same. The idea of a deity might be an anchor point for inner strength. A tool of sorts. A magical placebo. Some need that. If the effect is the same, the cause doesn't matter all that much. At least I suppose it doesn't. 

But it still creates a dependency. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

But it still creates a dependency. 

True, but some lack/need an aid. Takes the mental stress off the conscious mind if a person think an eternal force is handling something. However that is also a pitfall as it can lead to laziness. I guess it works / doesn't work for different people. 

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

That's still asking.

The prayer should be "I will have the strength".

For yourself, of course. Others may choose as they will. Man is of two natures, two realities, objective and subjective, hearing the voice of the adult without, often yielding to the primal voice of the child within.

[Piney]

24 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

For yourself, of course. Others may choose as they will. Man is of two natures, two realities, objective and subjective, hearing the voice of the adult without, often yielding to the primal voice of the child within.

Emotionally and developmentally, I'm 12 because of my autism according to the Friend's School psychologists I worked with.

I never stopped listening.

[Abramelin]

19 hours ago, Will Due said:

Anyone who knows the God that's real knows it because of other things besides reading things in books. 

Boy it's taking you a long time to catch on.

Being an academic and studying religious writings doesn't have anything to do with knowing the God that's real and you are definitely a shining example of it.

Thank you for your service 

 

 

To YOU God is real. I'm fine with that. But as soon you start stating it as a fact for us heathens to just simply accept, I am not fine with that.

In that case you are just trying to push your idea and belief about Gawd through our throats.

We have had 2000 years of that bs., and it should stop.

 

[Will Due]

9 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

To YOU God is real. I'm fine with that. But as soon you start stating it as a fact for us heathens to just simply accept, I am not fine with that.

In that case you are just trying to push your idea and belief about Gawd through our throats.

We have had 2000 years of that bs., and it should stop.

 

 

Well then, when you heathens stop craming it down everyone's throat that there is no God, I'll be happy to leave it alone. Until then, I will be pointing out the utter hypocrisy of doing so.

And in case you haven't noticed, there are young people that visit or participate in this forum. And I don't know about you but I don't think there's any worse thing you can do than to tell a child that there is no God.

Okay? 

 

 

[oslove]

Paging Hammer:   

 

16 hours ago, oslove said:

    There are three ways to know God exists:

    1. By reason

    2. By revelation for example, in the Bible

    3. By meditation

    Most folks who deny God exists have the God of the Bible in mind, so also with Christians. God in the Bible is a vengeful God if nothing else.

     

    Use reason and meditation, and you will come to God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

 

Hammer says:

No, we won't; that's just what you believe. Just the same BS from you, over and over again. A lot of these people weren't brought up to believe in anything. Others were indoctrinated in ritual but not belief and became apostates. Your little Sunday School checklist is meaningless to them. They find the carrot and stick, heaven or hell approach deeply offensive and see you as just another fanatical whack-job. They think your full of s%#t.
Edited 14 hours ago by Hammerclaw

================

 

Dear Hammer, you don't notice at all, do you? That you are talking about the God of the Bible, and to all apperances, you don't like Him at all, you hate Him.

Go for God from reason or God from meditation, okay?

That should save you from so much hatred in your heart and mind, it is not healthy - not physically and not mentally at all.

==============

There are three ways to know God exists:

    1. By reason

    2. By revelation for example, in the Bible

    3. By meditation

    Most folks who deny God exists have the God of the Bible in mind, so also with Christians. God in the Bible is a vengeful God if nothing else.

     

    Use reason and meditation, and you will come to God as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Well then, when you heathens stop craming it down everyone's throat that there is no God, I'll be happy to leave it alone. Until then, I will be pointing out the utter hypocrisy of doing so.

And in case you haven't noticed, there are young people that visit or participate in this forum. And I don't know about you but I don't think there's any worse thing you can do than to tell a child that there is no God.

Okay? 

 

 

Most often, if not always, we heathens respond to someone preaching.

And I think bringing up a kid without conditioning it with your belief in God would be a lot better. Let the kid find out for itself. If the kid choses to believe in some god, fine. If the kid choses not to believe in some god, fine too.

 

[Abramelin]

And I am happy to tell you, Will Due, that my ancient ancestors decapitated some christian pain in the rear (Bonifacius) when he tried to convert them to the Christain faith. That was after his master, Willibrord, thought it necessary to chop down a holy tree.

Man, I have met these evil missionaries in the Amazonian jungle. They are indeed evil, by the tactic they use to convert the natives.

Read Norman Mailer's "The Missionaries". It will open your eyes.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Abramelin

[Will Due]

7 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Most often, if not always, we heathens respond to someone preaching.

 

And then hypocritically and in my opinion, arrogantly, the response is to preach despicably, that there is no God.

 

7 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

And I think bringing up a kid without conditioning it with your belief in God would be a lot better. Let the kid find out for itself. If the kid choses to believe in some god, fine. If the kid choses not to believe in some god, fine too.

 

 

Yes, let the kid find out for itself. But I will add, that it's important to get in the kids world to find out whether or not someone is whispering in their ear things that aren't true like there is no God or that if they are little boy they can be a little girl if they want to.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

 

 

 

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

And then hypocritically and in my opinion, arrogantly, the response is to preach despicably, that there is no God.

Yeah, we use your tactic in return.

 

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Do you understand what I'm saying?

I do. And you are wrong trying to 'protect' that child from things YOU don't want it to hear.

[Will Due]

4 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

And you are wrong trying to 'protect' that child from things YOU don't want it to hear.

 

Sorry to tell you this but you are wrong if you think people like me are going to stand around and do nothing while you try to infect our children with utter corruption and deceit.

Okay?

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Will Due

[Abramelin]

6 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Sorry to tell you this but you are wrong if you think people like me are going to stand around and do nothing while you try to infect our children with utter corruption and deceit.

Okay?

 

 

 

What kind of bull are you pulling out of your rear?

I have never ever 'infected' a child with my idea of god/no god.

Is paranoia also part of the package of bs you impose on innocent kids?

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

What kind of bull are you pulling out of your rear?

I have never ever 'infected' a child with my idea of god/no god.

Is paranoia also part of the package of bs you impose on innocent kids?

 

When a child's innocence is threatened with deceit like telling them there is no God you can rest assured people who are otherwise calm, will rise up in ways no one expects.

 

 

[rashore]

Folks, knock it off with the personal attacks please. 

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

When a child's innocence is threatened with deceit like telling them there is no God you can rest assured people who are otherwise calm, will rise up in ways no one expects.

 

 

When a child is threatened with deceit like telling them there ìs a God you can rest assured people who are otherwise calm, will rise up in ways no one expects.

Heh.

You see, I can turn things around, and make it look as 'convincing' as your statement.

[Abramelin]

Just now, rashore said:

Folks, knock it off with the personal attacks please. 

Come on, we're just heating up. I'm sure Will doesn't mind. He likes it as much as I do.

This is a battle of opinions, convictions.

Don't worry, I am not a terrorist, and I'm sure Will isn't either.

He's not made of porcelain, and neither am I.

[rashore]

Just now, Abramelin said:

Come on, we're just heating up. I'm sure Will doesn't mind. He likes it as much as I do.

This is a battle of opinions, convictions.

Don't worry, I am not a terrorist, and I'm sure Will isn't either.

He's not made of porcelain, and neither am I.

Just knock it off with any personal attacks and do not heat things up. Everyone needs to keep the conversation civil and within the forum rules. 

[Abramelin]

No reason to delete my latest post where I asked Will Due if he was willing to continue our conversation.

Ok, forget it.

Will Due, I'll tell you where I'm coming from.

My mother perfectly hated anything connected with religion.

My father came from the south of the Netherlands, and was very religious (Roman Catholic).

I've always wondered how they even liked eachother enough to get married.

My father was a farmer's son, and grew up in a very poor family.

At some time he was a boxer, and loved to watch it on tv. My mother hated it.

My father was a funny and gentle guy, and in no way agressive or abusive. Despite the fact he had been brought up by an agressive father who beat him up regularly, he never beat me.

Except one time.

I was 12 years old or something, and I was rummaging around in the sideboard. I found a bronze figurine of Jesus with stretched out arms, you know what I mean. It had become loose of the wooden cross.

So I picked it up, and made it 'swimming in the air'. My father, who had been standing behind me , hit me on the head. I must have looked at him scared, and the very next thing he did was fkg excuse himself to me.

Now you may think I was raised gently, but no. My mother took over the role of the 'bad parent', and kind of enthousiasticay. She had no problems beating me or my brothers. She loved to use a stick or a coat-hanger.

Another thing:

When I was 6 years old or something, the pope back then appeared on tv. To my surprise my father told me to get down on my knees and with my hands up against eachother in praying.

My mother exploded: "what the f. are you thinking??!" she yelled at my father.

It was puzzling for me to see my parents fight about things religious. It happened often.

And thàt is where I am coming from.

So half my library is filled with spiritual stuff, including bibles, qur'ans, buddhist literature, books about Islam, and of course books about Sufism.

To make a very long story short: I am interested in religion and spirituality, but not so much a believer.

 

Today is the day my father would have celibrated his 111th birthday, but he died 2 weeks before his 66th. I am 'celibrating' my 65th today. I don't care about it at all.

 

And Rashore, if something of this post is not according to your rules, please don't delete it entirely. It took me almost an hour to write it down.

[cormac mac airt]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

When a child's innocence is threatened with deceit like telling them there is no God you can rest assured people who are otherwise calm, will rise up in ways no one expects.

One can threaten a child’s innocence by telling them things one CAN’T show verifiable evidence of being true. The Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and most especially one’s personal belief in God/a god are ALL things that CAN’T be proven. Belief doesn’t become fact just because you say so. 
 

What you are doing is indoctrination, plain and simple. 
 

cormac

[+Hammerclaw]

4 hours ago, Piney said:

Emotionally and developmentally, I'm 12 because of my autism according to the Friend's School psychologists I worked with.

I never stopped listening.

Then, according to Matthew 18:3, you are not far from the Kingdom of Heaven.

[Abramelin]

21 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

What you are doing is indoctrination, plain and simple. 
 

I wonder if Will Due has kids.

I haven't, but I have been a janitor at a primary school for a year.

When I was about to leave for another job (forced on me), the youngest kids grabbed my legs begging me not to go away.

Even writing this down makes my eyes water. I never ever expected that kind of reaction from those kids.