Proof of God (Gnosticism = Knowledge is Power)

[cormac mac airt]

19 minutes ago, Will Due said:

What explains a lot is believing that everything that became a part of the story is a lie while a lot of the parts are true.

Except that YOU don’t know the truth any more than anyone else, beyond what can be inferred from Jesus’ being a 1st century Jew. 
 

That basically leaves Paul saying the equivalent of “I don’t really know what I’m talking about, BUT BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY….”.  
 

That’s extreme gullibility at its finest. 

cormac

[Will Due]

42 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Except that YOU don’t know the truth any more than anyone else, beyond what can be inferred from Jesus’ being a 1st century Jew. 

 

I'm sorry you repeatedly make this comment in your replies. Because besides the inference from Jesus being a 1st century Jew, it certainly wouldn't be of much value to believe that that is all that can be inferred.

 

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

54 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I'm sorry you repeatedly make this comment in your replies. Because besides the inference from Jesus being a 1st century Jew, it certainly wouldn't be of much value to believe that that is all that can be inferred.

At it’s heart you believe what you WANT to believe regardless of the lack of evidence, but a lie told often IS STILL a lie. *snip*

cormac

Edited July 31, 2022 by Saru
Removed derogatory personal remark.

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

At it’s heart you believe what you WANT to believe regardless of the lack of evidence, but a lie told often IS STILL a lie. *snip*

cormac

 

A lie told will always remain a lie.

But this is just the insidiousness of a lie. When a person is told a lie most of the time they're not aware of it. Manipulative people tell lies because they know when a lie is told most of the time if not every time, people won't recognize it as such and just believe what they're told by those who intend to deceive.

But when a lie is finally revealed for what it is, who in their right mind would still believe it as being true? 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Will Due

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

A lie told will always remain a lie.

But this is just the insidiousness of a lie. When a person is told a lie most of the time they're not aware of it. Manipulative people tell lies because they know when a lie is told most of the time if not every time, people don't recognize it as such and just believe what they're told by those who intend to manipulate.

But when a lie is revealed for what it is, who in their right mind would still believe it as being true? 

Anyone who tries to pin Paul’s version of what is essentially misnamed Christianity IMO on Jesus when beyond his being a 1st century Jew NOTHING meaningful is known about what he believed, thought, felt, etc. 

Believers are therefore promoting Paul’s lie over Jesus’ own considerations. That’s intellectually dishonest no matter how one attempts to spin it. And more so if one is teaching their children to do the same. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

50 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Anyone who tries to pin Paul’s version of what is essentially misnamed Christianity IMO on Jesus when beyond his being a 1st century Jew NOTHING meaningful is known about what he believed, thought, felt, etc. 

 

You can believe that nothing meaningful can be known about Jesus other than he was a first century Jew, if that's what you decide to do. But I dare say, when you study what's available to study about his life and teachings, I'd say seeing that he was a first century Jew is probably less than 1% of what can be known about him.

 

50 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Believers are therefore promoting Paul’s lie over Jesus’ own considerations. That’s intellectually dishonest no matter how one attempts to spin it. And more so if one is teaching their children to do the same. 
 

cormac

 

You have repeatedly brought this issue up and time after time I have pointed out that I completely agree with this viewpoint. What's interesting about the fact that you keep repeating this is that you seem to be trying to infer that if you have any belief in Jesus, any belief in his teachings, as they are recorded in the Bible, outside of being a Christian, or as a Christian itself, one isn't wise enough nor capable of separating the teachings and knowledge of how He lived his life from what Paul promoted in the establishment of Christianity from those things that have nothing to do with Jesus, His life, nor his teachings.

Don't you have any appreciation of how insulting that is?

It does seem to me that you have separated for yourself these divergent things so why not promote how to differentiate Jesus from Paul for the benefit of others instead of doing what you keep doing?

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Will Due

[cormac mac airt]

11 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

You can believe that nothing meaningful can be known about Jesus other than he was a first century Jew, if that's what you decide to do. But I dare say, when you study what's available to study about his life and teachings, I'd say seeing that he was a first century Jew is probably less than 1% of what can be discovered about him.

 

 

You have repeatedly brought this issue up and time after time I have pointed out that I completely agree with this viewpoint. What's interesting about the fact that you keep repeating this is that you seem to be trying to infer that if you have any belief in Jesus, any belief in his teachings, as they are recorded in the Bible, outside of being a Christian, or as a Christian itself, one isn't wise enough nor capable of separating the teachings and knowledge of how He lived his life from what Paul promoted in the establishment of Christianity from those things that have nothing to do with Jesus, His life, nor his teachings.

Don't you have any appreciation of how insulting that is?

It does seem to me that you have separated for yourself these divergent things so why not promote how to differentiate Jesus from Paul for the benefit of others instead of doing what you keep doing?

 

 

Do YOU know how insulting it is to suggest otherwise. There’s a “simple” enough fix to this, show some verifiable evidence UNEQUIVOCALLY STATED by Jesus himself as to what he believed, thought, felt, etc. because short of that the rest is merely hear-say which amounts to fiction. Even you should be intelligent enough to understand that. 
 

cormac

Edited July 31, 2022 by cormac mac airt

[Will Due]

23 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Do YOU know how insulting it is to suggest otherwise. There’s a “simple” enough fix to this, show some verifiable evidence UNEQUIVOCALLY STATED by Jesus himself as to what he believed, thought, felt, etc. because short of that the rest is merely hear-say which amounts to fiction. Even you should be intelligent enough to understand that. 
 

cormac

 

I get it. Unless you have as you say, unequivocally stated evidence of what Jesus said himself, anyone and everyone should dismiss it all, in its entirety. I get that.

You're right. What is recorded is most definitely hearsay. But wait a minute.

It still says what it says. And I see a lot of value in what it says. I see the spiritual significance of it. Whether or not others see it, whether or not you see it, isn't any of my business.

I guess it just saddens me that a person has to have objective evidence for them to take the ball over the goal line so to speak. I'm not one of those that needs it. I'm one of those that sees the value in seeing it for what it is without having proof or evidence or objectivity or whatever you want to call it. In fact, I like it the way it is that it's all very subjective. Subjective and personal. Standing alone to take responsibility for it on my own. To learn from my experiences in the realm of what we were talking about. It gives me great comfort to experience things personally and subjectively instead of having it the way you seem to need it, which believe it or not, I do appreciate and understand. 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Will Due

[cormac mac airt]

16 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I get it. Unless you have as you say, unequivocally stated evidence of what Jesus said himself, anyone and everyone should dismiss it all, in its entirety. I get that.

You're right. What is recorded is most definitely hearsay. But wait a minute.

It still says what it says. And I see a lot of value in what it says. I see the spiritual significance of it. Whether or not others see it, whether or not you see it, isn't any of my business.

I guess it just saddens me that a person has to have objective evidence for them to take the ball over the goal line so to speak. I'm not one of those that needs it. I'm one of those that sees the value in seeing it for what it is without having proof or evidence or objectivity or whatever you want to call it. In fact, I like it the way it is that it's all very subjective. Subjective and personal. Standing alone to take responsibility for it on my own. To learn from my experiences in the realm of what we were talking about. It gives me great comfort to experience things personally and subjectively instead of having it the way you seem to need it, which believe it or not, I do appreciate and understand. 

 

 

 

The problem isn’t entirely that it says what it does, although there are valid issues in many cases, the problem is that you and others keep attributing said words, deeds, etc. to Jesus when there is no valid verifiable reason to do so.
 

By that note, hypothetically speaking, one would be in the right to attribute any manner of claims about you that are not valid/validated and you would be perfectly ok with your memory being crapped all over simply because others said so. Would that “really” be ok with you because you’re implying it would be. And before you say it’s not the same thing remember that, at best, Jesus was a Jew who saw problems with how Judaism was being abused and was in his own way trying to correct them. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

3 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

By that note, hypothetically speaking, one would be in the right to attribute any manner of claims about you that are not valid/validated and you would be perfectly ok with your memory being crapped all over simply because others said so. Would that “really” be ok with you because you’re implying it would be. 

 

I have repeatedly stated how wrong I think it is that the religion that bears the name of Jesus was in effect hijacked by Paul and his associates. Using your below the belt terminology, how much they lied about what Jesus said and did.

I have repeatedly stated how wrong I think it is that the religion that bears the name of Jesus was misrepresented by Paul and his associates. Using your below the belt terminology, how much they lied about what Jesus said and did.

I am anything but okay with any of those things Paul and his associates did and I have repeatedly said so.

Why you take it upon yourself to continue to attack me personally and try to assassinate my character by misrepresenting what I've repeatedly stated about it in the past, time and time again, stands as a statement about your character, not mine.

Without an apology, this will be the last time I ever respond to anything you post.

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Will Due

[cormac mac airt]

21 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I have repeatedly stated how wrong I think it is that the religion that bears the name of Jesus was misrepresented by Paul and his associates.

I am anything but okay with any of those things Paul and his associates did and I have repeatedly said so.

Why you take it upon yourself to continue to attack me personally and try to assassinate my character by misrepresenting what I've repeatedly stated about it in the past, time and time again, stands as a statement about your character, not mine.

Without an apology, this will be the last time I ever respond to anything you post.

And yet you continue to co-opt Jesus’ name WHEN YOU KNOW IT’S WRONG. Just how hypocritical can you be? 
 

BTW, you assassinated your own character when, as you claim, you knew it was wrong and you continued to do it anyway. 
 

cormac

Edited August 1, 2022 by cormac mac airt
Cleanup

[Will Due]

 

Jesus is the creator and the ruler of our universe. He incarnated and lived a life on our world to show the way and how to live a life in accordance with the will of the Father in heaven. This revelation is contained within the record of his life in the Bible. But that's not the only place where it exists. In the Bible record, there are many things about Jesus that are misrepresented. But there are also many more things that are true. Those things that are true stand out and are easy to recognize. And I think most normal minded people who've had average experiences in life, good things, bad things, things that people overcome and not let themselves get bogged down with pessimism and hatred, easily see and incorporate into their lives.

 

 

[Will Due]

 

I know that it is right to speak for the truth. Especially about Jesus. Especially when speaking for the truth about Jesus, it exposes the lies that were recorded a couple of thousand years ago as well as the pathetic lies you wrote that were recorded 5 minutes ago in this discussion forum.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Will Due

[Will Due]

 

It is truly sickening that this world is full of people who try to stand against the truth in ways that are truly astonishing. And I for one will do everything in my power to expose it all for what it is as much as I can.

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

I know that it is right to speak for the truth. Especially about Jesus. Especially when speaking for the truth about Jesus, it exposes the lies that were recorded a couple of thousand years ago as well as the pathetic lies that were recorded 5 minutes ago in this discussion forum.

One would have thought you were better than that, however one would be grossly mistaken apparently. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

 

And once again we have an example of how low some people have to go when they're confronted with the truth. They know the truth when they see it and it just drives them nuts. You know that this is the situation when all that's left for them to do is to lie once more. 

 

 

 

[Will Due]

 

These are the same situations that were present when it came upon the rulers of the Jews to do away with Jesus who's very presence in their midst became something of their own making, terrible to endure. So what exactly did they do? They spread scandalous lies about Him amongst the people.

The same thing occurs today so often in so many places. Is it surprising that it occurs here too? Not to me. But you go at it. You keep at it. Because what it amounts to for people who continually do this is that it casts themselves in stone in a way they may not be aware of but won't, more than likely, be able to undo.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Will Due

[cormac mac airt]

45 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I have repeatedly stated how wrong I think it is that the religion that bears the name of Jesus was in effect hijacked by Paul and his associates. Using your below the belt terminology, how much they lied about what Jesus said and did.

I am anything but okay with any of those things Paul and his associates did and I have repeatedly said so.

Yet you continue to do what Paul and associates have done and whereas he/they are wrong for it you make excuses for doing the same thing. How do you justify your hypocrisy after calling Paul and associates down on theirs when you all suffer the same problem? 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

 

And once more pathetically we have another example of the twisting and turning of the truth into lies. So exposing so sickening, but just another part of the global situation between the truth and everything else that is composed of nothing but lies.

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Will Due

[Will Due]

 

Do you see where the lies are hinged. The great truth denier who participates in this discussion forum keeps insisting that I am doing the same thing that Paul did. So what did Paul do and what am I doing?

Paul, in formulating Christianity, which should be more accurately named Paulianity, supplanted almost entirely the religion of Jesus (which is faith in the fatherhood of God) with his own personal beliefs which in effect superseded all those things that are true about the life and teachings of Jesus.

But what I am doing and have been doing ever since I joined this forum is to highlight those things about the religion of Jesus which were superseded by Paul's religion and bring them out to the fore.

But instead some of the members here and one in particular keeps on trying to say, which is one great lie, that I am doing the same thing as Paul. But anyone with eyes can see that that is a lie.

What a sickening situation, but in this pathetic world of lies, it's completely within the abnormality of what usually goes on in it, with those who are uncommitted to the truth in certain measurable ways.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Will Due

[Will Due]

 

Lies, lies, lies, to me it's a sickening word. But when as a lie it gets used against me, I won't just sit around and do nothing about it.

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

But what I am doing and have been doing ever since I joined this forum is to highlight those things about the religion of Jesus which were superseded by Paul's religion and bring them out to the fore.

The religion of Jesus WAS JUDAISM. He wasn’t trying to start his own religion and since Paul’s creation of what essentially became Pauline Christianity was contemporary with the earliest writings attributed to Jesus’ lifetime, yet 30+ years after the fact, there was nothing of Jesus’ alleged teachings TO HAVE BEEN superseded. Pretending to know what Jesus’ unevidenced teachings were makes you no better than Paul IMO. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

 

The claim keeps being made that the teachings of Jesus are unevidenced. Yet there they are in black and white. And seeing their importance and significance, that's all the evidence that's needed.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Will Due

[Will Due]

 

The religion of Jesus superseded Judaism. That's a fact. It's also why the Jews are no longer the torchbearers they used to be and were supposed to keep on being if they hadn't rejected the leadership of Jesus and his teachings.

 

 

[cormac mac airt]

Just now, Will Due said:

The claim keeps being made that the teachings of Jesus are unevidenced. Yet there they are in black and white. And seeing their importance and significance, that's all the evidence needed.

Those are the claims of people 30+ years AFTER Jesus death, people who NEVER even knew him. Hear-say is evidence of nothing more than what the teller WANTS to believe or WANTS OTHERS to believe. There is absolutely no way to establish the veracity of those claims. 

cormac