Real ancient mysteries (not Atlantis) that we need to discuss!

[Nobu]

This thread has potential

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 hours ago, Trelane said:

Thank you all for this thread! The very real mysteries are far more fascinating (to me at least).

I am certainly with you my friend, this is a great thread!

[Grim Reaper 6]

7 hours ago, Abramelin said:

According to the Sumerians they came from the north.

Several Magyar/Hungarian sites claim they were the ancestors of the Sumerians.

Both their languages are agglutanative (sp?), and the Magyars claim to have the oldest script.

True? No idea.

Thanks, that’s what I know about this subject myself but it still doesn’t doesn’t answer the questions, yet it is a start!

Thanks

[Grim Reaper 6]

10 hours ago, Hanslune said:

So the fine folks here added a few while I was asleep. Sneaky b*******.

1. Who were the Sumerians, and what was their original homeland?

2. The Copper Scroll that was discovered with other Dead Sea Scrolls: As its name suggests, the writing was engraved onto a copper scroll. The scroll records a vast amount of hidden gold and silver treasure — so much, in fact, that some scholars believe that it is impossible for it to exist?

3. Is the Sumerian Cuneiform actually the first written language?

There are other possibilities such as proto-writing systems that mainly used symbols that are older

4. While this isn’t ancient it could certainly make for an interesting conversation:  Who was Jack the Ripper?

5. Who actually discovered America?  Oldest proof of human occupation in the Americas. Were the Americas peopled before 30,000 years ago? Did Homo erectus or other non-sapiens hominins make it to the Americas?

6. Were the people of Gobekli Tepe actually agroforesters? Not tethered nomads?

7. Who was the man in the Iron Mask in Versailles? Was his real name Eustache Dauger?

8. The Sarmatian Laeti Theory

9. My question would be who was the greater inspiration for the King Arthur stories, Owain Ddantgwyn or Riothamus?  Was there a real king Arthur?

10. The Giza Pyramids: A History of Wireless

11. Ye old Baghdad battery

12. Who was Kaspar Hauser the most mysterious person in history?

That should give us something to chew on for a bit.

 

Thanks for including my topics, I appreciate it very much!

[Grim Reaper 6]

7 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Those we now call Native Americans.

Thanks I would have never considered that wow that was easy!

[Carnoferox]

18 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I am certain about the ship actually being discovered in 70s - early 80s, do you have more information about that?

What I find interesting is the fact that the US Navy financed Robert Ballards tests of his remote vehicle the Argo. The Navy financed the test because they wanted to locate to Submarines that had sunk in the 1960s. Well Ballard and his team located both Submarines and had approximately 12 days left. So Ballard asked if he could use the remaining time to search for the Titanic, and using the Argo and the French Research Ship they discovered the Titanic in September 1985; all of his previous missions had failed.

Here's an interesting page that covers some of the claims. So far, none have stood up to scrutiny.

http://www.paullee.com/titanic/titanicfound.html

[Grim Reaper 6]

7 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Maybe the first 'written' language can be found on the Mas d'Azil pebbles.

That could be interesting topic to consider, but it’s important to remember that according to the The British Museum some of the pebbles purchased by the British Museum were faked. Since these pebbles have been found at many different sites, it seems the faked pebbles all came for nor site.

The British Museum: https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1929-0413-4

[Grim Reaper 6]

9 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

Here's an interesting page that covers some of the claims. So far, none have stood up to scrutiny.

http://www.paullee.com/titanic/titanicfound.html

Wow, I can certainly see the confusion those are some interesting claims. But like you said none have stood up under scrutiny, yet who knows what the future will bring.

Thanks Man.

[Nobu]

Is the copper scroll legitimate?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_Scroll

 

I believe so. But like most other treasures; I think we poopoo on the ingenuity of our ancestors and most of the treasures have been found and set up some of the longest lasting family dynasties in the world.

[Grim Reaper 6]

12 hours ago, Piney said:

It's rather obvious that certain Asian species of hominids made watercraft.

I also believe that the first hominids may have used watercraft ( Rafts or Small Boats ) to follow the coastline so they could bypass the huge Glaciers that blocked a direct route from the Bering Straits into America. The problem proving this along with pushing the date of occupation back beyond 30,000 years is the fact that the coastline then along with any settlements that may have existed would be more than likely be many miles off shore from the current coastline today. Which places any proof of early occupation under water and means those sites will never be discovered. 

12 hours ago, Piney said:

@Harte and I thought H. Erectus, but now it's been discovered Denisovans were in the vicinity too and they seemed pretty advanced. But I doubt either species of human made it to the Americas.

If somehow early humans did make the crossing what ‘I outlined above would most likely prevent any proff from being discovered! 

12 hours ago, Piney said:

Then again 60 to 80 percent of Native North American archeology sites have been destroyed without even being studied and firms working for governments and development companies still hide things.

Savannah, Georgia was a major trading center where even the Arawak-Taino and Carib tribe's came to ply their wares. As with Plains tribes.

But it has never been truly studied.

The Plains tribe's sign language was noted by many of the earliest setters as being used on the East Coast and Alan Carman and I found Rocky Mountain obsidian in Cumberland County, New Jersey.

The Virginia Algonquians told John Smith about the Rockies.

Think about the extent of the trade networks and what a "vast untouched wilderness" North America wasn't.

Which debunks those false Nordic accounts of NA exploration.

 

Thanks for all the information I was not aware of most of it!

Edited June 24, 2022 by Manwon Lender

[Oniomancer]

4 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

 

edit: Never mind.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Oniomancer

[Nobu]

2 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

Here's an interesting page that covers some of the claims. So far, none have stood up to scrutiny.

http://www.paullee.com/titanic/titanicfound.html

This paper validates what I’ve been saying… there is no Atlantis under water. Oil companies had already found the titanic in the 80s. The Atlantic has been mapped well by now- three times over.

[Hanslune]

9 hours ago, Trelane said:

Thank you all for this thread! The very real mysteries are far more fascinating (to me at least).

Woo is always fun but the real stuff can be a lot more interesting ---- as it's true! Or at least we think so.

[Hanslune]

3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Thanks I would have never considered that wow that was easy!

There is not good evidence but some believe a few Homo erectus folks might have been mincing and prancing about the Americas - but that is all speculation.

[Hanslune]

Vandino and Ugolino Vivaldi were two Genose merchant brothers. They were connected with the first known expedition in search of an ocean pathway from Europe to India that avoided the Islamic Middle-East. Their expedition of two galleys, the Sanctus Antonius and Alegranzia, left Genoa in 1291 with the purpose of going to India going around Africa and to see if trade could be initiated in this manner.

Planned primarily for commerce, the enterprise also aimed at proselytism. Two Franciscan friars accompanied them. The galleys made it to a place called (Cape Noun), in what is modern southern Morocco. No more was ever heard of them. This was one of the first voyages that sailed out from the Mediterranean into the Atlantic since the Fall of the Western Roman Empire in the seven centuries before. Their disappearance was a great mystery and in 1312 one.

Lancelotto Malocello set sail from Genoa to search for Vivaldis. He ended up remaining on the island that is named for him, Lanzarote, one of the Canary Islands, for more than two decades.

Later one of the sons searched for them some said he got as far as the East coast of Africa. In 1455 another Genoese seaman, Uso di Mare, in the service of Prince Henry the Navigator of Portugal, claimed to have met, near the mouth of the Gambia river, the last descendant of the survivors of the Vivaldo expedition.

It was said that the two galleys, had sailed ad far as the Sea of Guinea; in that sea one was stranded, but the other passed on to a place on the coast of Aethiopia (here meaning Black Africa) —possibly to the meaning the Senegal River where the Genoese were seized and held in close captivity until they died. It would not stretch credulity to imagine that the Vivaldis got as far as Senegal, and that their adventures ended there.

The voyage may have inspired Dante’s Canto  of the Inferno about Ulysses’ last voyage, which ends in failure in the Southern Hemisphere. According to Henry F. Cary, Ulysses' fate was inspired:"...partly from the fate which there was reason to suppose had befallen some adventurous explorers of the Atlantic ocean."

[img]https://i.imgur.com/m4pNIMi.jpg[/img]

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Hanslune

[Grim Reaper 6]

17 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

There is not good evidence but some believe a few Homo erectus folks might have been mincing and prancing about the Americas - but that is all speculation.

I am aware of that, because apparently they did make rafts or small boats based upon evidence from Europe! But sadly if by chance it did occur most likely any evidence of that is under water off either the East or West Coastlines. However, who knows what may be discovered in the near future especially in Alaska. With the current weather conditions as they are today, concerning the major Glacial Ice melts and the fact that Alaskan permafrost is melting at a unprecedented rate new areas that were under snow and ice just 5 years ago are being exposed.

This has been bringing multitudes of new archeological discoveries to light all around the world today, so I think in the very near future in Alaska there is a strong possibility that some major new discoveries will be made, what they will be is anyones guess, but we can hope that it answers some of the questions we all have about when and who the first Americans were that crossed the Bering Strait!

Thanks for starting this thread, 'I am enjoying it very much!

[Grim Reaper 6]

51 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Vandino and Ugolino Vivaldi were two Genose merchant brothers. They were connected with the first known expedition in search of an ocean pathway from Europe to India that avoided the Islamic Middle-East. Their expedition of two galleys, the Sanctus Antonius and Alegranzia, left Genoa in 1291 with the purpose of going to India going around Africa and to see if trade could be initiated in this manner.

Planned primarily for commerce, the enterprise also aimed at proselytism. Two Franciscan friars accompanied them. The galleys made it to a place called (Cape Noun), in what is modern southern Morocco. No more was ever heard of them. This was one of the first voyages that sailed out from the Mediterranean into the Atlantic since the Fall of the Western Roman Empire in the seven centuries before. Their disappearance was a great mystery and in 1312 one.

Lancelotto Malocello set sail from Genoa to search for Vivaldis. He ended up remaining on the island that is named for him, Lanzarote, one of the Canary Islands, for more than two decades.

Later one of the sons searched for them some said he got as far as the East coast of Africa. In 1455 another Genoese seaman, Uso di Mare, in the service of Prince Henry the Navigator of Portugal, claimed to have met, near the mouth of the Gambia river, the last descendant of the survivors of the Vivaldo expedition.

It was said that the two galleys, had sailed ad far as the Sea of Guinea; in that sea one was stranded, but the other passed on to a place on the coast of Aethiopia (here meaning Black Africa) —possibly to the meaning the Senegal River where the Genoese were seized and held in close captivity until they died. It would not stretch credulity to imagine that the Vivaldis got as far as Senegal, and that their adventures ended there.

The voyage may have inspired Dante’s Canto  of the Inferno about Ulysses’ last voyage, which ends in failure in the Southern Hemisphere. According to Henry F. Cary, Ulysses' fate was inspired:"...partly from the fate which there was reason to suppose had befallen some adventurous explorers of the Atlantic ocean."

[img]https://i.imgur.com/m4pNIMi.jpg[/img]

 

That’s very interesting story, and it’s amazing that even after a few hundred years that their plight was still known.

Thanks very much for sharing, it’s always a good day to learn something new! 

[jethrofloyd]

13. Where's the exact location of Alexander the Great' s burial place?

[Abramelin]

20 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Did Homo erectus or other non-sapiens hominins make it to the Americas?

I once started a thread about it.

[WVK]

18 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Those we now call Native Americans.

As explained @ 6:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3hzDJiVfJo

 

[Thanos5150]

On 6/22/2022 at 12:22 PM, Hanslune said:

1. What happened to the Vandino and Ugolino Vivaldi? They left Genoa in May 1291 with the purpose of going to India by way of the Atlantic 'Ocean sea', and vowed to bring back useful things for trade - but instead disappeared.

So, a ship before modern communication went out to sea and never came back and no one knows why? Wow, that is mysterious. You would think "vowing to bring back useful things for trade" would make them impervious to such a fate, but apparently not. I wonder if that worked for any other ship ever. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Thanos5150

[Thanos5150]

On 6/22/2022 at 7:45 PM, Carnoferox said:

Were the Americas peopled before 30,000 years ago? Did Homo erectus or other non-sapiens hominins make it to the Americas?

I'm not convinced, but it's an interesting idea worth exploring. 

For anyone to make it to the Americas by way of the Bearing Straight they would need the ability to make and maintain tailored clothes included foot, head, and hand coverings, have a broad tool kit (made of different materials like ivory and bone) including needles, fishhooks, and lines, the ability to store and travel with weeks of food, able to make fire at will and bring along enough fuel for weeks of travel, etc etc. 

 

It not just the crossing of the Bearing Straight but the journey across hundred and hundreds of miles through some of the most inhospitable climate on the planet, on both sides, just to be able to do it in the first place let alone survive after the fact. As far as there not being "good evidence" to support the notion Erectus making it to the Americas, there is actually no evidence nor any evidence to suggest he was capable of making the journey even if he tried.      

[Harte]

On 6/23/2022 at 12:05 AM, Manwon Lender said:

That’s true, I have not even read that article yet, do you think it’s nonsense?

It starts out with

Quote

While it has been known since the 1930s that simple chemical batteries were used for gold electroplating in Egypt thousands of years ago, until now it was thought these could only have been recharged by replacing the chemicals and copper rods inside.

so not only is it nonsense, it's not even decent sarcasm.

Harte

[Harte]

Since you made it easy for me, I'll take a crack at these.

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

So the fine folks here added a few while I was asleep. Sneaky b*******.

1. Who were the Sumerians, and what was their original homeland?

Who knows? And how does it matter?

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

2. The Copper Scroll that was discovered with other Dead Sea Scrolls: As its name suggests, the writing was engraved onto a copper scroll. The scroll records a vast amount of hidden gold and silver treasure — so much, in fact, that some scholars believe that it is impossible for it to exist?

If you're asking does the treasure exist, I'd say that it probably once did.

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

3. Is the Sumerian Cuneiform actually the first written language?

Probably. On Earth, anyway.

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

4. While this isn’t ancient it could certainly make for an interesting conversation:  Who was Jack the Ripper?

He was that guy in Merry Old England that went around slaughtering prostitutes.

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

5. Who actually discovered America?  Oldest proof of human occupation in the Americas. Were the Americas peopled before 30,000 years ago? Did Homo erectus or other non-sapiens hominins make it to the Americas?

That's three questions. No fair.

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

6. Were the people of Gobekli Tepe actually agroforesters? Not tethered nomads?

No.

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

7. Who was the man in the Iron Mask in Versailles? Was his real name Eustache Dauger?

Tony Stark

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

8. The Sarmatian Laeti Theory

A failed sitcom that tried to rip off "The Big Bang Theory."

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

9. My question would be who was the greater inspiration for the King Arthur stories, Owain Ddantgwyn or Riothamus?  Was there a real king Arthur?

This is two questions as well. The answer to the second is, well, obviously.

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

10. The Giza Pyramids: A History of Wireless

Yes, they were wireless.

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

11. Ye old Baghdad battery

Invented to power vibrating chastity belts.

On 6/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hanslune said:

12. Who was Kaspar Hauser the most mysterious person in history?

A friendly ghost.

Any further "mysteries?"

Harte

Edited June 24, 2022 by Harte

[Hanslune]

Hey we get prizes if we guess right

Quote

On 6/23/2022 at 7:17 AM, Hanslune said:

1. Who were the Sumerians, and what was their original homeland?

Who knows? And how does it matter?

They just might, be related to the folks who built Gobekli Tepe and Karakan Tepe. They might not, the cool folks want to know.