Real ancient mysteries (not Atlantis) that we need to discuss!

[Piney]

33 minutes ago, Trelane said:

I don't mean to derail, but what is the genesis of the fear of owls?

Rogue Kiimochnii ( Nightwalkers/Skinwalkers) turn themselves into owls and if your haunted by a owls, one is after you. They are also harbingers of death.

[Trelane]

4 hours ago, Piney said:

Rogue Kiimochnii ( Nightwalkers/Skinwalkers) turn themselves into owls and if your haunted by a owls, one is after you. They are also harbingers of death.

Thank you very much. I had no idea.

[Windowpane]

On 10/28/2022 at 4:54 PM, Thanos5150 said:

...

I never understood why Archae, or whoever, did this, but the saw pictured at the top is a 17th century BC Cycladic bronze woodworking saw discovered on Thera. Seems a little dishonest to put this at the top of an article titled "Ancient Egyptian Copper Slabbing Saws" ...

 

The caption beneath the image at the top of the article says that it's a 3rd Dynasty copper saw fragment from Meidum. 

[Thanos5150]

On 11/4/2022 at 4:54 AM, Windowpane said:

The caption beneath the image at the top of the article says that it's a 3rd Dynasty copper saw fragment from Meidum. 

As you know better than anyone, this is not the original photo used and was changed at some point after I pointed it out. This was the original photo taken from Wikipedia:

And the picture you changed it to, if you actually read Petrie it is a model of a wood working saw and again not a copper stone cutting slabbing saw and in reality not even meant to be actually used.  

Edited November 11, 2022 by Thanos5150

[Kane999]

A topic that has been discussed but still retains a lot of interest: When did people start traversing open expanses of water? This question has always had implications for the peopling of the Americas.

Our human ancestors learned to sail half a million years ago, study suggests (msn.com)

The story contains a link to a new study, but the bulk of the article appears to be behind a paywall. If correct, these were surely not H. Sapiens.

[cormac mac airt]

37 minutes ago, Kane999 said:

A topic that has been discussed but still retains a lot of interest: When did people start traversing open expanses of water? This question has always had implications for the peopling of the Americas.

Our human ancestors learned to sail half a million years ago, study suggests (msn.com)

The story contains a link to a new study, but the bulk of the article appears to be behind a paywall. If correct, these were surely not H. Sapiens.

According to the article Homo erectus was involved. 
 

cormac

[Piney]

Just now, cormac mac airt said:

According to the article Homo erectus was involved. 
 

cormac

@Harte always said they probably had watercraft. 

[Thanos5150]

12 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

According to the article Homo erectus was involved. 

"But hundreds of thousands of years ago, there is evidence that hominids — most likely Homo erectus — visited these islands, leaving behind traces of their activity in the form of tools and bones."

The original paper: Archaic hominins maiden voyage in the Mediterranean Sea

In the abstract they do not mention Erectus but rather "archaic hominins" and "pre-sapiens".  The only species they refer to is Neanderthal. And the date is "as early as 450 ka" which could mean not even close to it. 

 

[Thanos5150]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

@Harte always said they probably had watercraft. 

Why-because he was there? 

[Piney]

11 minutes ago, Thanos5150 said:

Why-because he was there? 

He taught them. 

[Abramelin]

2 hours ago, Kane999 said:

A topic that has been discussed but still retains a lot of interest: When did people start traversing open expanses of water? This question has always had implications for the peopling of the Americas.

Our human ancestors learned to sail half a million years ago, study suggests (msn.com)

The story contains a link to a new study, but the bulk of the article appears to be behind a paywall. If correct, these were surely not H. Sapiens.

An interesting paper:

Pleistocene Water Crossings and Adaptive Flexibility Within the Homo Genus - Dylan Gaffney, 2021

[Piney]

48 minutes ago, Thanos5150 said:

"But hundreds of thousands of years ago, there is evidence that hominids — most likely Homo erectus — visited these islands, leaving behind traces of their activity in the form of tools and bones."

The original paper: Archaic hominins maiden voyage in the Mediterranean Sea

In the abstract they do not mention Erectus but rather "archaic hominins" and "pre-sapiens".  The only species they refer to is Neanderthal. And the date is "as early as 450 ka" which could mean not even close to it. 

 

It could of been H. Heidelbergensis.

[Abramelin]

44 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

An interesting paper:

Pleistocene Water Crossings and Adaptive Flexibility Within the Homo Genus - Dylan Gaffney, 2021

Now only a skull of a H.Erectus in the Americas, and I will raise this thread from the dead.

[cormac mac airt]

43 minutes ago, Piney said:

It could of been H. Heidelbergensis.

Yes it could and in either case it would not be Homo sapiens. 
 

cormac

[Abramelin]

18 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Yes it could and in either case it would not be Homo sapiens. 
 

cormac

That depends on what you consider Homo sapiens.

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Thanos5150 said:

Why-because he was there? 

That, or they must have been great swimmers.

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

That depends on what you consider Homo sapiens.

With enough genetic differentiation between Neanderthals and Homo sapiens (us) the tendency has been to move away from classifying other groups among the sapiens species level. 
 

cormac

[Piney]

44 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Now only a skull of a H.Erectus in the Americas, and I will raise this thread from the dead.

I thought and hoped at one time, as did my sisters but it's highly doubtful. But if anything. It would be Denisovan, because the "Erectus" traits that Indians and Asians have all turned out to be just that.

[Abramelin]

49 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

With enough genetic differentiation between Neanderthals and Homo sapiens (us) the tendency has been to move away from classifying other groups among the sapiens species level. 
 

cormac

A tendency, yes, but not a general agreement among scientists.

I am getting the impression classification changes about every year.

[Piney]

34 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

A tendency, yes, but not a general agreement among scientists.

I am getting the impression classification changes about every year.

Look at plant classification. All the genetic studies show their traits come about from convergent evolution, not relationship and 2 species of pitcher plant aren't even related and oaks are basal rosids. 

[Harte]

6 hours ago, Piney said:

@Harte always said they probably had watercraft. 

They're my homo homies.

Harte

[Thanos5150]

7 hours ago, Abramelin said:

That, or they must have been great swimmers.

Harte can't swim. Necessity is the mother of all invention. 

[Thanos5150]

8 hours ago, Piney said:

It could of been H. Heidelbergensis.

From HERE:

What the discoverers or click bait mill never mention when offering these claims of vastly more ancient and/or different species mariners is that sea levels were at least 400ft lower than today which the rise towards modern levels didn't start happening until around 20,000 yrs ago. It wasn't until c. 8,000yrs ago that we have the levels seen today. At the time they date these artifacts the Aegean, and Medditeranean in general, was radically different than today:

Compare to today:

No seafaring required. They walked. And if at any point they did have to traverse water it was limited and line of sight.    

An interesting site to go back in time with ancient seal levels: Flood Map.

_____________________________________________________________________  

The problem with the notion of "archaic hominid seafaring" is that it requires an inherent level of intelligence and cognitive abilities that are otherwise completely absent in any species other than ourselves and at best Neanderthal (and maybe Denisovan though that's another story). The Acheulean tool industry attributed to Erectus, as primitive as it is, is that despite this "breakthrough" in technology remained unchanged for over a million years since its invention and towards the end of Erectus actually devolved back to Oldowan. But they could make water craft and "sail" across potentially miles of open sea not to mention survive for generations? Makes no sense. 

 

[Abramelin]

4 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

What the discoverers or click bait mill never mention when offering these claims of vastly more ancient and/or different species mariners is that sea levels were at least 400ft lower than today which the rise towards modern levels didn't start happening until around 20,000 yrs ago. It wasn't until c. 8,000yrs ago that we have the levels seen today.

Not so:

https://greekcitytimes.com/2023/01/04/archaic-humans-sailed-to-aegean-islands-450000-years-ago-new-study-shows/

One should not only take rising and dropping sea levels into account, but also the rising and sinking of the sea floor due to tectonic movements.

[Thanos5150]

7 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Not so:

https://greekcitytimes.com/2023/01/04/archaic-humans-sailed-to-aegean-islands-450000-years-ago-new-study-shows/

One should not only take rising and dropping sea levels into account, but also the rising and sinking of the sea floor due to tectonic movements.

What is "not so"?