Real ancient mysteries (not Atlantis) that we need to discuss!

[Piney]

1 hour ago, jethrofloyd said:

Yes.

The world's first reference Bible which could of been written by Herman the Recluse who legend said made a pact with Satan to finish it.

He was supposed to have been starved to death for committing a unknown sin. 

The book was determined to be written by a single hand but unless another book is found that can be attributed to Herman and a record of his crime can be found we'll never know.

Most of the known info on it is in Wikipedia. 

[Thanos5150]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:50 AM, ShadowSot said:

In 1992, a Boston University Professor of Geology, Robert M. Schoch, published a paper which concluded that the Great Sphinx of Giza was carved at a time between 5000 and 7000 BC
1
. This conclusion was reached following a study of the degradation of the body of the Sphinx and adjacent exposures. Schoch stated that the ".....rolling and undulating vertical profile to the weathered rocks ....."
 
was attributable to "...precipitation-induced weathering"

Schoch is best known for his fringe argument that the Great Sphinx of Giza is much older than conventionally thought and that some kind of catastrophe was responsible for wiping out evidence of a significantly older, unknown civilization. In 1991, Schoch redated the monument to 10,000–5,000 BC, based on water erosion marks he identified on the Sphinx enclosure walls, and also based on findings from seismic studies around the base of the Sphinx and elsewhere on the plateau.

Robert Schoch

What is the point of cherry picking this one quote about Schoch and adding another of the same when the link is about Reader's assessment? 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Thanos5150

[Thanos5150]

On 8/11/2022 at 2:37 PM, Harte said:

Schoch's estimated date was not arrived at through examining degradation of anything. That was what led Schoch to investigate, but his date is entirely based on subsurface weathering of the bedrock under the sphinx enclosure, which was caused by exposure to air, not water or wind or any such force.

Schoch's study involved weathering, not erosion.

While Reader is correct that Schoch made such statements, he mischaracterizes Schoch's reasoning concerning his date of 5000-7000 BC.

Reader takes the angle he does because he is investigating erosion. It's unfortunate really, because Reader is partially responsible for all the shallow thinkers believing that Schoch's date is based on rain, when it has absolutely nothing to do with precipitation of any kind.

Literally the exact opposite it true. On page 8/9 Reader makes this quite clear: Giza Before the Fourth Dynasty.

When Schoch first saw the erosion and came to the conclusion this was produced by rainfall, it was Schoch's understanding this kind of precipitation had not occurred since around 5,000BC ergo if so the Sphinx must also date to somewhere around this time. It was this initial assessment that led Schoch to perform the seismic study to test this hypothesis which according to Schoch the results supported his original conclusions. According to Schoch himself:

Quote

In 1990 I first traveled to Egypt with John Anthony West (for background information see Forgotten Civilization and Origins of the Sphinx), with the sole purpose of examining the Great Sphinx from a geological perspective. I assumed that the Egyptologists were correct in their dating, but soon I discovered that the geological evidence was not compatible with what the Egyptologists were saying. On the body of the Sphinx, and on the walls of the Sphinx Enclosure (the pit or hollow remaining after the Sphinx’s body was carved from the bedrock), I found heavy erosional features that I concluded could only have been caused by rainfall and water runoff. The thing is, the Sphinx sits on the edge of the Sahara Desert and the region has been quite arid for the last 5000 years. Furthermore, various structures securely dated to the Old Kingdom show only erosion that was caused by wind and sand (very distinct from the water erosion). To make a long story short, I came to the conclusion that the oldest portions of the Great Sphinx, what I refer to as the core-body, must date back to an earlier period (at least 5000 BCE, and my latest research now points to the end of the last ice age, circa 10,000 BCE), a time when the climate was very different and included more rain....

To further test the theory of an older Sphinx, we carried out seismic studies around the base of the statue to measure the depth of subsurface weathering. Basically, we used a sledgehammer on a steel plate to generate sound waves that penetrated the rock, reflected, and returned to the surface. This gave us information about the subsurface qualities of the limestone bedrock. When I analyzed the data, I found that the extraordinary depth of subsurface weathering supported my conclusion that the core-body of the Sphinx must date back to 5000 BCE or earlier.

So what was this about "shallow thinkers"? 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Thanos5150

[Thanos5150]

3 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

Literally the exact opposite it true.

Should read "Literally the exact opposite is true". 

[jethrofloyd]

31. Easter Island's Rongorongo Writings? - To date, scientists have not been able to determine exactly what the glyphs say or link them to any outside cultures.

[Piney]

5 hours ago, jethrofloyd said:

31. Easter Island's Rongorongo Writings? - To date, scientists have not been able to determine exactly what the glyphs say or link them to any outside cultures.

The warrior- priestly class who could decipher it was wiped out by disease and slave raids.

They were probably developed in-situ by the Rapanui people around 1200.

They probably served the same purpose as Algonquian Midi symbols as memetic devices. 

You can thank Christian Europeans for this mystery that shouldn't have happened. 

[Kane999]

Mammoth bones and 'ghost' footprints add to heated debate about first humans in North America (msn.com)

In regard to the peopling of the Americas, I thought I would add this link in case none of you have read it. Over time, I think more evidence will come forth to push the date of the first Americans back in time. I think Piney mentioned all the sites that have been disturbed or destroyed. No doubt, over the course of thousands of years whole peoples have been wiped out as well not least being of course the diseases brought to the Americas by the Spanish. I am intrigued by the idea that Denisovans could have made it to Alaska but there is just not enough evidence to be serious about it. 

32) Did a comet or meteor impact cause the extinction of the megafauna and if so, how did it affect extant humans?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jethrofloyd]

32. Skhul Jewelry - Is human culture much older than we previously thought ?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9392-ancient-beads-imply-culture-older-than-we-thought/

''Archaeologists have discovered that 100,000-year-old shells found in Israel and Algeria were decorative beads. This suggests that modern human forms of behaviour, such as language, developed earlier than previously thought''.

[Hanslune]

4 hours ago, jethrofloyd said:

32. Skhul Jewelry - Is human culture much older than we previously thought ?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9392-ancient-beads-imply-culture-older-than-we-thought/

''Archaeologists have discovered that 100,000-year-old shells found in Israel and Algeria were decorative beads. This suggests that modern human forms of behaviour, such as language, developed earlier than previously thought''.

Similar to https://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=100362

[jethrofloyd]

Shugborough inscription

18th-century Shepherd's Monument in Staffordshire, England, looks like and normal monument from afar, but if one gets closer, they will notice a curious sequence of letters: DOUOSVAVVM — which is a code that has remained unresolved for all these years. Some experts speculated that the code could likely be a clue that has been left behind by the Knights Templar .

[SHaYap]

6 hours ago, jethrofloyd said:

DOUOSVAVVM — which is a code that has remained unresolved for all these years.

Petter Amundsen Has a nice theory ...

Quote

https://m.imdb.com › title

Cracking the Shakespeare Code (2017) - IMDb

 

Follow code-breaker Petter Amundsen and historian Dr. Robert Crumpton as they investigate the secrets buried in William Shakespeare's first folio and ...

~

Say what you will about his theory but his methodology is most compelling, the three part documentary is an enjoyable watch too

~

[Piney]

On 9/28/2022 at 7:01 PM, Kane999 said:

Mammoth bones and 'ghost' footprints add to heated debate about first humans in North America 

32) Did a comet or meteor impact cause the extinction of the megafauna and if so, how did it affect extant humans?

It was finally put to rest.. The mammoth bone fractures were caused naturally. 

As for the YD impact. It never happened. The megafauna extinction was a combination of environmental changes and catastrophic flooding.

Clovis people then changed hunting strategies, but Eastern Clovis always were smaller game hunters.

[Piney]

22 hours ago, jethrofloyd said:

Shugborough inscription

18th-century Shepherd's Monument in Staffordshire, England, looks like and normal monument from afar, but if one gets closer, they will notice a curious sequence of letters: DOUOSVAVVM — which is a code that has remained unresolved for all these years. Some experts speculated that the code could likely be a clue that has been left behind by the Knights Templar .

It's probably a dedication to Admiral Anson's deceased wife.

[Abramelin]

23 hours ago, jethrofloyd said:

Shugborough inscription

18th-century Shepherd's Monument in Staffordshire, England, looks like and normal monument from afar, but if one gets closer, they will notice a curious sequence of letters: DOUOSVAVVM — which is a code that has remained unresolved for all these years. Some experts speculated that the code could likely be a clue that has been left behind by the Knights Templar .

Never heard of it, so:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shugborough_inscription

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

It was finally put to rest.. The mammoth bone fractures were caused naturally. 

As for the YD impact. It never happened. The megafauna extinction was a combination of environmental changes and catastrophic flooding.

Clovis people then changed hunting strategies, but Eastern Clovis always were smaller game hunters.

@Kane999

Carnoferox started a thread about it:

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/311289-reference-list-for-the-younger-dryas-impact/

[Kane999]

20 hours ago, Abramelin said:

@Kane999

Carnoferox started a thread about it:

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/311289-reference-list-for-the-younger-dryas-impact/

Thanks for the link. Will take a look at it. It's been years since I participated in this forum, so I am sure that I have missed a lot. I don't even remember what username that I used before.

[Kane999]

22 hours ago, Piney said:

It was finally put to rest.. The mammoth bone fractures were caused naturally. 

As for the YD impact. It never happened. The megafauna extinction was a combination of environmental changes and catastrophic flooding.

Clovis people then changed hunting strategies, but Eastern Clovis always were smaller game hunters.

Thanks. I was not aware of further conclusions on the mammoth bone fractures. As for the YD impact, I thought that theory was still being tested perhaps I am wrong.

[Piney]

7 hours ago, Kane999 said:

Thanks. I was not aware of further conclusions on the mammoth bone fractures. As for the YD impact, I thought that theory was still being tested perhaps I am wrong.

The only thing they're doing with the YD theory is repeating the same debunked lies. 

[Thanos5150]

On 10/2/2022 at 9:14 AM, Piney said:

The megafauna extinction was a combination of environmental changes and catastrophic flooding.

At least you didn't say overkill by humans. Hands down the most unapologetically stupid theory to receive such widespread mainstream support I have ever seen. Why not say the earth is flat and they just fell off.  

Edited October 4, 2022 by Thanos5150

[Essan]

44 minutes ago, Thanos5150 said:

At least you didn't say overkill by humans. Hands down the most unapologetically stupid theory to receive such widespread mainstream support I have ever seen. Why not say the earth is flat and they just fell off.  

On the contrary.  All evidence shows that introducing a new predator is a significant factor in extnction events.   To say the arrival of humans contributed to megafaunal extnctions is about as stupid as saying the Earth orbits the Sun.

(To say say it was all down to humans is equally stupid, though)

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Thanos5150 said:

At least you didn't say overkill by humans. Hands down the most unapologetically stupid theory to receive such widespread mainstream support I have ever seen. Why not say the earth is flat and they just fell off.  

I take a like from you as a serious complement and I'm not being sarcastic.

45 minutes ago, Essan said:

On the contrary.  All evidence shows that introducing a new predator is a significant factor in extnction events.   To say the arrival of humans contributed to megafaunal extnctions is about as stupid as saying the Earth orbits the Sun.

(To say say it was all down to humans is equally stupid, though)

The Clovis population wasn't very large. Just very spread out and dodging iots of rain, floodwaters and the hazards they leave. They were also opportunist hunters and the Eastern points indicate a dependence on smaller game. 

 

[Thanos5150]

5 hours ago, Essan said:

On the contrary.  All evidence shows that introducing a new predator is a significant factor in extnction events.   To say the arrival of humans contributed to megafaunal extnctions is about as stupid as saying the Earth orbits the Sun.

(To say say it was all down to humans is equally stupid, though)

I raise you an on the contrary and would say it is as stupid as the Sun orbiting the Earth. This is not what happened. In the last megafauna extinction there were 47 species that got wiped out around the world- millions of animals. Yet somehow groups of sustenance hunting humans living in groups of a dozen or two at most, with the total word wide human population around a million or less, hunted them all if any to extinction? 

Quoting myself from elsewhere regarding such overhunting as the driving force of humans migrating across the Bering Sea which applies to the subject at large:

In the mid 1800's, even after decades of trappers killing millions of buffalo with guns, when the U.S government wanted to defeat the Indians they killed hundreds of thousands more and at the end of the day the buffalo were still there.

Yes, this is a mountain of buffalo skulls.

Quote

Buffalo once ranged from the eastern seaboard to Oregon and California; from Great Slave Lake in northern Alberta to northern Mexico. Although no one will ever know exactly how many bison once inhabited North America, estimates range from twenty-five to seventy million. William Hornaday, a naturalist who spent considerable time in the West, both before and during the most severe years of the slaughter, comments on the seemingly infinite bison population and the impossibility of estimating their quantity: It would have been as easy to count or to estimate the number of leaves in a forest as to calculate the number of buffaloes living at any given time during the history of the species previous to 1870 (quoted in Rifkin, 74).

The point is that nearly 100yrs of madmen killing the buffalo wantonly with guns for money or sport, let alone the U.S. government's attempt at extermination, not to mention the indigenous peoples of the last 15,000yrs, none could wipe out the buffalo. And yet we are to believe that a few hundred nomadic hunters and gatherers over thousands of years with spears and millions of acres of pristine hunting grounds in Asia had to follow the hunt through the depths of glacial hell several thousand miles all the way to South America? And they wiped out all the mega fauna in their wake? No. These are not mindless hunters and gathers abandoning their home of plenty traveling thousands of miles for the next kill, these are people that came because they wanted to and could do so in the most practical means possible which was by boat. I am by no means suggesting that no peoples, though very few, ever crossed the strait, but the alternative given the evidence saying the majority did not come in boats is absurd to me.

Another part of this equation is life expectancy which I'm guessing was about 30yrs or less particularly for this lifestyle. A band of 20 people set out to make the journey, 10 men, 5 women, and 5 children. How many people are left by the time they settle to begin re-population? 15? And how many of those die within the next 1-5yrs not to mention the likelihood that most of the children born never make it past birth or at best a few years. These are crazy harsh conditions-the worst. For peoples to survive the 3,000mi journey on foot within generations, let alone the 1st few months and years, I am sure the odds are astronomical. Coming by boats increases their success rate of survival exponentially which obviously they were.

Objections to the hunting hypothesis[edit]

The major objections to the theory are as follows:

• In predator-prey models it is unlikely that predators could over-hunt their prey, since predators need their prey as food to sustain life and to reproduce.^[251] This assumes that all food sources die out simultaneously, but humans could have made the mammoth extinct while subsisting on elk, for example. Human hunting is known to have exterminated megafauna on several islands, switching to other food sources with time or dying out themselves.
• There is no archeological evidence that in North America megafauna other than mammoths, mastodons, gomphotheres and bison were hunted, despite the fact that, for example, camels and horses are very frequently reported in fossil history.^[252] Overkill proponents, however, say this is due to the fast extinction process in North America and the low probability of animals with signs of butchery to be preserved.^[253] Additionally, biochemical analyses have shown that Clovis tools were used in butchering horses and camels.^[254] A study by Surovell and Grund^[255] concluded "archaeological sites dating to the time of the coexistence of humans and extinct fauna are rare. Those that preserve bone are considerably more rare, and of those, only a very few show unambiguous evidence of human hunting of any type of prey whatsoever."
• A small number of animals that were hunted, such as a single species of bison, did not go extinct. This cannot be explained by proposing that surviving bison in North America were recent Eurasian immigrants that were familiar with human hunting practices, since Bison first appeared in North America approximately 240,000 years ago^{[163][164][165]} and then evolved into living bison.^[166][256] Bison at the end of the Pleistocene were thus likely to have been almost as naive as their native North American megafaunal companions.
• Eurasian Pleistocene megafauna became extinct in roughly same time period despite having a much longer time to adapt to hunting pressure by humans. However, the extinction of the Eurasian megafauna can be viewed as a result of a different process than that of the American megafauna. This makes the theory less parsimonious since another mechanism is required. The latter case occurred after the sudden appearance of modern human hunters on a land mass they had never previously inhabited, while the former case was the culmination of the gradual northward movement of human hunters over thousands of years as their technology for enduring extreme cold and bringing down big game improved. Thus, while the hunting hypothesis does not necessarily predict the rough simultaneity of the north Eurasian and American megafaunal extinctions, this simultaneity cannot be regarded as evidence against it.
• Eugene S. Hunn points out that the birthrate in hunter-gatherer societies is generally too low, that too much effort is involved in the bringing down of a large animal by a hunting party, and that in order for hunter-gatherers to have brought about the extinction of megafauna simply by hunting them to death, an extraordinary amount of meat would have had to have been wasted.^[257] It is possible that those who advocate the overkill hypothesis simply have not considered the differences in outlook between typical forager (hunter-gatherer) cultures and the present-day industrial cultures which exist in modernized human societies; waste may be tolerated in the latter, but is not so much in the former. However, Hunn's comments are in reference to the now largely discredited theory of hunter-prey equilibrium reached after thousands of years of coexistence. The well-established practice of industrial-scale moa butchering by the early Maori, involving enormous wastage of less choice portions of the meat, indicates that these arguments may be incorrect.^[242]
• The hypothesis that the Clovis culture represented the first humans to arrive in the New World has been disputed recently. (See Settlement of the Americas.) However, Clovis artifacts are currently the earliest-known evidence of widespread settlement in the Americas.

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Thanos5150

[Thanos5150]

4 hours ago, Piney said:

I take a like from you as a serious complement and I'm not being sarcastic.

Agreed. 

Quote

The Clovis population wasn't very large. Just very spread out and dodging iots of rain, floodwaters and the hazards they leave. They were also opportunist hunters and the Eastern points indicate a dependence on smaller game. 

As were most human populations across the globe.     

[Essan]

12 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

... somehow groups of sustenance hunting humans living in groups of a dozen or two at most, with the total word wide human population around a million or less, hunted them all if any to extinction?

That's not quite what I said    Humans were a contributory factor.   The extra straw that hadn't existed during previous rapid post-glacial climate change periods.

And the fact is, outside of Africa, many extinctions do coincide with the arrival of humans (more especially so on islands) - for a variety of reasons (not just hunting)

[Piney]

28 minutes ago, Essan said:

That's not quite what I said    Humans were a contributory factor.   The extra straw that hadn't existed during previous rapid post-glacial climate change periods.

And the fact is, outside of Africa, many extinctions do coincide with the arrival of humans (more especially so on islands) - for a variety of reasons (not just hunting)

To put it in scale for readers the entire Clovis population of Southern New Jersey, including the exposed shelf might of been 6 people. 

The Archaic hunting band in the same territory about 8,000 years later might of been 25 people.

@Thanos5150 We've found mammoth remains, none butchered. But lots and lots of elk, which didn't become extinct in New Jersey until the mid to late 1800s.