Real ancient mysteries (not Atlantis) that we need to discuss!

[Piney]

17 hours ago, SHaYap said:

No worries... More updated details in PDF 

~

 

17 hours ago, SHaYap said:

No worries... More updated details in PDF 

~

 

****ing joke .....

There are no similarities. The DNA of their mummies are 100 percent native even though they are genetically distinct. The sling and bolo were both used as far back as the Archaic all over the Americas and the Chachapoya developed directly from the Tiwanaku-Wari Culture.

Don't go there Shidoshi. I fully acknowledge a common origin with the Jurchen, especially the Manchu. But this idea is full BS.

16 hours ago, Abramelin said:

I already downloaded that paper.

However, the transcript I linked to in my former post appears more informative to me.

Barbieri, Sandoval, 

'Enclaves of Genetic Diversity Resist Inca Impacts on Population History' 2017, Max Planck Institute 

 

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

Barbieri, Sandoval, 

'Enclaves of Genetic Diversity Resist Inca Impacts on Population History' 2017, Max Planck Institute 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17728-w

[Piney]

9 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17728-w

What sucks is our computer is at the office/garden center to keep either of us from working while at home so I have to look up the PDF, write it down and post it here. 

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

What sucks is our computer is at the office/garden center to keep either of us from working while at home so I have to look up the PDF, write it down and post it here. 

I have something else for you: the English translation of Hans Giffhorn's website in German:

https://www-hansgiffhorn-com.translate.goog/?_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en

I found it a fascinating (and long) read.

It's still about the Chachapoya, btw. I hope you read it from beginning to end.

[Piney]

10 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I have something else for you: the English translation of Hans Giffhorn's website in German:

https://www-hansgiffhorn-com.translate.goog/?_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en

I found it a fascinating (and long) read.

It's still about the Chachapoya, btw. I hope you read it from beginning to end.

It jumps all over but his statement that they had no pre-cultural relationship is wrong. I listed it in a previous post. I was also a little horrified at that handling of the remains without proper containers or nitrile gloves. That contaminated the DNA.

I'm going to read it through though.

[jethrofloyd]

"7,000-year-old Greek enigma"

The strange bird-like object was carved from granite, without the benefit of metal tools. How was it achieved? It dates from the Final Neolithic period.

[Piney]

56 minutes ago, jethrofloyd said:

"7,000-year-old Greek enigma"

The strange bird-like object was carved from granite, without the benefit of metal tools. How was it achieved? It dates from the Final Neolithic period.

Stone can be worked by stone easier than metal. Metal is softer and there are far older and more detailed pieces of art.

Mystery solved.

[Oniomancer]

19 minutes ago, Piney said:

Stone can be worked by stone easier than metal. Metal is softer and there are far older and more detailed pieces of art.

Mystery solved.

Also looks like extremely minimal alteration even allowing for damage. The piece was probably at least 2/3rds readymade.

 

[jethrofloyd]

2 hours ago, Piney said:

Stone can be worked by stone easier than metal. Metal is softer and there are far older and more detailed pieces of art.

That was my first thought as well, but  '' For carving granite, you need diamond saws, carbide-tipped pneumatic tools and an air compressor.”

[Windowpane]

12 minutes ago, jethrofloyd said:

...  '' For carving granite, you need diamond saws, carbide-tipped pneumatic tools and an air compressor.” 

Copper slabbing saws?

[Piney]

2 hours ago, jethrofloyd said:

That was my first thought as well, but  '' For carving granite, you need diamond saws, carbide-tipped pneumatic tools and an air compressor.”

Every time I see "without the benefit of metal tools" I know the clown who wrote it never studied archeology and I want to scream.

Google "Hopewell and Adena Birdstones and bannerstones"

You'll see what can be done with reeds and sand.

[Harte]

7 hours ago, jethrofloyd said:

That was my first thought as well, but  '' For carving granite, you need diamond saws, carbide-tipped pneumatic tools and an air compressor.”

Only if you want to carve granite like some chainsaw artists carve logs into bears and whatnot.

Harte

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Harte said:

 chainsaw artists carve logs into bears and whatnot.

Harte

......

......Pumpkins and snowmen this month. 

[Thanos5150]

On 10/26/2022 at 3:56 AM, jethrofloyd said:

"7,000-year-old Greek enigma"

The strange bird-like object was carved from granite, without the benefit of metal tools. How was it achieved? It dates from the Final Neolithic period.

Wow. This was made 7,000yrs ago without the aid of metal tools...? Out of granite-the adamantium of stone...? It makes no sense. How could it be made without metal tools? Its like finding a Boeing 747 in the dinosaur age. Oh, but it gets even better:

"The museum says the figure is asexual, with no sign of breasts or genitals.

But it says it is difficult to say whether that is a result of the challenge of carving granite without metal tools, or whether it was deliberate and could tell us something about the place of gender in Neolithic society."

I have a feeling this will tell whoever has something to say whatever they want it to.

And I'd like to know in what context this date was derived as the best I can find at a glance is:

"Initial analysis has revealed the statue most likely dates back to the Final Neolithic Period.

The exact region where the item was carved remains a mystery, although some experts suggest that it originated somewhere from the northern Greek regions of Thessaly or Macedonia."

The final Neolithic in Greece dates to 4500-3200BC. As with most click bait they take the oldest date and round it up and that's the story so caveat emptor. If this is what the museum is saying it is an arbitrary number within a wide range.  

Edited October 27, 2022 by Thanos5150

[jethrofloyd]

On 10/26/2022 at 6:50 PM, Piney said:

Google "Hopewell and Adena Birdstones and bannerstones"

You'll see what can be done with reeds and sand.

I read a litte bit about these bannerstones today. A quite interesting. But, for what were bannerstones actually used? They were not strictly ceremonial, right? Have they been used for ex. as a weights that imparted force and accuracy to spear-throwers?

[Piney]

1 hour ago, jethrofloyd said:

I read a litte bit about these bannerstones today. A quite interesting. But, for what were bannerstones actually used? They were not strictly ceremonial, right? Have they been used for ex. as a weights that imparted force and accuracy to spear-throwers?

They were never ceremonial. They were atlatl weights. They act as silencers and give extra power.

But the amount of repaired ones we found suggest they might of been considered sacred/powerful.

[jethrofloyd]

33 minutes ago, Piney said:

They were never ceremonial. They were atlatl weights. They act as silencers and give extra power.

But the amount of repaired ones we found suggest they might of been considered sacred/powerful.

These bannerstones got me thinkimg about something else that at first glance has absolutely no similarities. The Roman Dodecahedrons. As we know a people found hundreds of them throughout a entire teritory of the ''Roman Empire''. But, no one is still sure what they are, and what they were actually used for? Now, I wonder maybe they were some sort of the Roman weapon weights? And acted as silencers and give extra power?

[Piney]

23 minutes ago, jethrofloyd said:

These bannerstones got me thinkimg about something else that at first glance has absolutely no similarities. The Roman Dodecahedrons. As we know a people found hundreds of them throughout a entire teritory of the ''Roman Empire''. But, no one is still sure what they are, and what they were actually used for? Now, I wonder maybe they were some sort of the Roman weapon weights? And acted as silencers and give extra power?

I always thought the wrist guards worn by Beaker men weren't for using a bow. If you hold it right you don't need one. I think they were used for parrying daggers.

[Thanos5150]

On 10/26/2022 at 7:22 AM, Windowpane said:

Copper slabbing saws?

Good grief. My response the last time it was used as a source:

"I never understood why Archae, or whoever, did this, but the saw pictured at the top is a 17th century BC Cycladic bronze woodworking saw discovered on Thera. Seems a little dishonest to put this at the top of an article titled "Ancient Egyptian Copper Slabbing Saws". At any rate, all of the actual Egyptian depictions in the article are of hand saws cutting wood which caches of such wood working saws were found as far back as the 1st Dynasty. The DE obviously had saws, but these not the ones used to cut the stones. Far from it. According to John Romer, as evidenced by the saw marks themselves, some of the saws would have needed to be truss saws with blades at least 13ft long weighing upwards of 800lbs. This article, uncritically repeated, is highly misleading for those who don't actually read it."

People keep citing Archae's article thinking it says something it does not and even when they know it doesn't they just keep doing it anyways?  

 

[Oniomancer]

The worst one could say is the author experienced the same difficulties interpreting Petrie's arcane and needlessly complicated reference system I had just now.   It's like trying to read an ordinance survey map. If one treats it like any normal reference, the labeled fragment appears at a glance to be from the 1st dynasty.

Personally, I still think these guys are on to something:

http://www.kaogu.cn/en/International_exchange/Academic_activities___/2018/0504/61855.html

Certainly more sensible than a  13ft. to 10meter wide circular saw.

[Abramelin]

On 10/27/2022 at 12:37 AM, Piney said:

......

......Pumpkins and snowmen this month. 

Nah. Owls.

[Piney]

Just now, Abramelin said:

Nah. Owls.

The only animals I carve is turtles because it's a major phaltry, they're easy to speed carve and people love them.

Owls are bad juju with Algonquians and I couldn't even get my exs family in a friend's house who collected em. 

[Trelane]

6 minutes ago, Piney said:

The only animals I carve is turtles because it's a major phaltry, they're easy to speed carve and people love them.

Owls are bad juju with Algonquians and I couldn't even get my exs family in a friend's house who collected em. 

I don't mean to derail, but what is the genesis of the fear of owls?

[Abramelin]

16 minutes ago, Piney said:

The only animals I carve is turtles because it's a major phaltry, they're easy to speed carve and people love them.

Owls are bad juju with Algonquians and I couldn't even get my exs family in a friend's house who collected em. 

I tried carving ravens, but for gods know what reasons it always failed.

You will know the image of Raven and Turtle. Thàt's what I tried to carve with a chainsaw. I always loved that.

Sigh.

Edited to add:

Sorry, mistake: it's Raven and Shell:

Edited November 3, 2022 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, Trelane said:

I don't mean to derail, but what is the genesis of the fear of owls?

They are silent hunters, and hunt during the dark.