Jacob Rees-Mogg triggers alarm with Brexit plan for sparkling wine in plastic bottles

[itsnotoutthere]

18 minutes ago, Saru said:

^^ The divisions caused by Brexit are still plain to see six years on.

When slurs like "remoaners" are still being thrown around, you know that there is a long way to go before the country can move on from this debacle.

But it's  remoaners remainers that don't want us to move on, they want us to move backwards. Plus, you think 'remoaners' is a slur when people that voted to leave have had to put up with being labelled racists, bigots & nazis for the past 6 years, come on, a bit of perspective.

Edited June 24, 2022 by itsnotoutthere

[Saru]

16 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Plus, you think 'remoaners' is a slur when people that voted to leave have had to put up with being labelled racists, bigots & nazis for the past 6 years.

You make my point nicely - one thing we can all agree on is that Brexit has caused no end of division, hostility and negativity in this country over the last six years.

[Autochthon1990]

1 hour ago, So Far Away said:

So the other 170 or so non-EU countries on the rest of the planet, many of whom seem to be able to manage perfectly fine without having to be politically shackled to a Politburo based elsewhere, are all living in the far, far past are they?

I wouldn't exactly call us 'managing perfectly fine' over here in the states. We just had, yknow, a coup and everything. 

[Autochthon1990]

57 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

But it's  remoaners remainers that don't want us to move on, they want us to move backwards. Plus, you think 'remoaners' is a slur when people that voted to leave have had to put up with being labelled racists, bigots & nazis for the past 6 years, come on, a bit of perspective.

I mean ya'll did freak out over a 5 percent muslim population and did something insanely stupid as a result...

[Autochthon1990]

1 hour ago, So Far Away said:

We're not a federation at all. NOBODY voted for it. It has been imposed on us through stealth without our consent. It may come as a bit of a shock to you but not everyone wants to see their country consumed into one large homogenised lump of European "states" ultimately answerable to a bunch of unaccountable out of touch bureaucrats based in Brussels that we can never remove from office at the Ballot Box if we don't like any of their policies because they will never even stand for election in the first place.

The EU itself is nationalistic, awarding itself the symbols of a Country (its own President (or five), its own (fake) Parliament, it's own Supreme Court, with jurisdiction over all member "States" Courts, its own Flag, its own Anthem, its own Currency, Outer Borders/Open Borders, and now, seemingly, its own Armed Forces) - All totally contrived, but designed to pull a false sense of allegiance in our minds.

It has even told those of us who were gullible enough to even listen to them that we were now its so-called "Citizens", despite not even being a Country, and, as we saw during Nigel's barnstorming farewell speech in the EU's fake Parliament, demands that member "States" transfer all Patriotism towards the EU instead of their own lands.

 

...You um, do realize you elect politicians to the European parliament, yes? They're not imposed, they're elected. Christ I'm an /American/ and I seem to know more about the EU then you do. I'm from the nation of 'we'll let kids die horribly so we can keep LARPing as the wolverines' and 'we thought an orange reality show host was the guy to give access to nuclear weapons', the hell is your excuse?

[Autochthon1990]

1 hour ago, So Far Away said:

Oh, so now I'm a waste of space because I have a different opinion to you about the EU and the direction it is heading? That's a really intelligent counter-argument. Is that how the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (oops, sorry, I meant the EU) deals with dissenters who dare to voice opposition to them then?

Can you actually cite sources on any of the stuff you're spewing? Go ahead, we'll wait, take a little time and see what you can scrounge up for that. 

[itsnotoutthere]

7 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

I mean ya'll did freak out over a 5 percent muslim population and did something insanely stupid as a result...

Putting up with idiots like this for six years is the biggest downside.

[So Far Away]

42 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

...You um, do realize you elect politicians to the European parliament, yes? They're not imposed, they're elected. Christ I'm an /American/ and I seem to know more about the EU then you do. I'm from the nation of 'we'll let kids die horribly so we can keep LARPing as the wolverines' and 'we thought an orange reality show host was the guy to give access to nuclear weapons', the hell is your excuse?

You um do realise that MEPs are virtually powerless in the EU's fake Parliament, and are just essentially there for rubber-stamping don't you? Unlike our MPs they do not propose laws (it is very different, even though Remoaners try and pretend otherwise). Yes, we can elect an MEP to the EU's fake Parliament, but all EU Commissioners are unelected appointees. As the real power in any system lies with those who formulate policy and laws, which the EU Commission does with their fake Parliament simply rubber stamping what they are given, then the real power in the EU lies with unelected officials.

We were brought up in a country where the only people making our laws were politicians directly elected by us. In the EU, we cannot vote for the Commissioners, and we cannot vote them out of office either. The ELECTED body of MEPs do not have the authority to even suggest laws in the first place; Tell me, if every British MEP voted against an EU directive that detrimentally affected the UK, would their combined vote make a difference? No, of course it wouldn't, not if every other MEP in Brussels had voted in favour of it. That is not democracy, that is elected dictatorship - and the system is designed and fixed so that the drive for federalism will never be slowed, it is designed to avoid radical change.

Plus, the Commissioners work solely for the interests of the European Union, not for the interests of their representative country within the EU system. They even swear an oath to carry out their responsibilities "in the general interest of the Union" and "neither to seek nor to take instructions from *ANY* Government or from *ANY* other institution, body, office or entity."

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_10_487

Edited June 24, 2022 by So Far Away

[Autochthon1990]

4 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Putting up with idiots like this for six years is the biggest downside.

I'm an American, we didn't elect a populist idiot who had no idea what he was doing because he promised to get rid of Muslims, we did exactly the same thing for Mexicans instead. 

[So Far Away]

10 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

...You um, do realize you elect politicians to the European parliament, yes? They're not imposed, they're elected. Christ I'm an /American/ and I seem to know more about the EU then you do. I'm from the nation of 'we'll let kids die horribly so we can keep LARPing as the wolverines' and 'we thought an orange reality show host was the guy to give access to nuclear weapons', the hell is your excuse?

As an American would you be happy for a US President (Trump for instance) to unilaterally sign the USA into a political union with the likes of Canada and Mexico, together with a bunch of South American countries such as Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay and Venezuela, with its headquarters where all of your trade policies are made based in Santiago, and all sharing the same political ideology, currency, and of course open borders, without you ever being given a vote on it - because that's essentially what happened in the UK when John Major took it upon himself to sign The Maastricht Treaty (the foundation of the EU) in 1992, without him even having the decency to ask the British people whether we even wanted to be a part of this European political project?

 

When we were finally given a chance to vote directly on the matter, nearly 25 years after Maastricht, is it any wonder that those of us who've been dragged, unwillingly, into this unwanted political union voted to get out?

[itsnotoutthere]

3 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

I'm an American, we didn't elect a populist idiot who had no idea what he was doing because he promised to get rid of Muslims, we did exactly the same thing for Mexicans instead. 

Yes, then you elected a man with the I.Q. of a pull along wooden duck & now things are ten times worse.

[L.A.T.1961]

Much of the division caused over brexit was created immediately after the vote when it was suggested that a way of overturning the result was possible.

Those who voted against were then encouraged to think it possible to circumvent the result. Political parties and sections of the press, that should have known better, then threw petrol onto this fire by continuing to suggest things could be stopped.

A bit like trump in the US suggesting the vote was somehow flawed and should be overturned.

Rather than excepting the situation and moving on. Which is typical practice in UK politics. 

Today the same polarised opinions, created by this unwise behavior are still in evidence in the UK and the States.

 

[Silver]

We took a 4% hit to our economy, and decimated our fishing and farming industries, for this (and he doesn't understand that the reason why we have regulatory standards when products are already 'safe and work', is because the regulatory standards ensure they are 'safe and work'. The man is a moron.):

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by The Silver Shroud

[Duke Wellington]

On 6/23/2022 at 8:32 AM, The Silver Shroud said:

Along with over-powered vacuum cleaners (which no manufacturer will make as they will limit overseas sales), blue passports (which we could have had anyway), crown marks on glasses (which we already had), vendors selling goods in pounds and ounces only (which no one will do as it adds costs and complications), our Minister for Brexit Opportunities is now alarming manufacturers with the idea of selling sparkling wine in plastic bottles. The UK is becoming dizzy with all the opportunies broken, Brexit Britain may be able to enjoy post Brexit!

The UK drinks industry has responded with alarm to a proposal from Jacob Rees-Mogg that post-Brexit deregulation could include allowing sparkling wine to be sold in plastic bottles.

The Brexit opportunities minister identified a rule requiring fizz to be sold in glass bottles as one of the Brussels regulations which could be expunged from UK law following EU withdrawal.

But the Wine and Spirits Trade Association warned that any change must not jettison health and safety requirements, with the high pressure created by bubbles during fermentation making plastic an improbable and expensive choice of container.

Rees-Mogg triggers alarm with Brexit plan for sparkling wine in plastic bottles | The Independent

Are you still obsessed with Brexit? lol

Beginning now to sound like an old broken record.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Cookie Monster

[So Far Away]

9 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

We took a 4% hit to our economy, and decimated our fishing and farming industries, for this (and he doesn't understand that the reason why we have regulatory standards when products are already 'safe and work', is because the regulatory standards ensure they are 'safe and work'. The man is a moron.):

 

Our fishing industry was decimated when we were conned into joining that far too overpriced political union folly, because of the EU's 'Common Fisheries Policy' (CFP), and the principle of equal access to Europe’s fishing waters for all member states. This is an agreement whereby EU nations do not control their own territorial waters or set their own quotas to catch fish. Instead, fish are classed as a common resource and the rules governing fishing quotas, catch levels, subsidies, discards and a whole range of other measures are set centrally by the European Commission. Now, with the zero tariff, zero quota Free Trade Agreement we have with the EU (which is the only one *EVER* to be struck between the EU and a non-member by the way), we have increased our quota in British waters, with more increases year by year for the next 5 years. None of this was possible whilst we were in the EU.

Here's an article from 'Devon News Live', dated 5th January 2022, headlined: "Brixham defies Brexit and Covid storm to smash fish sale record"

Quote: "Brixham Fish Market has posted Brexit-beating, record-breaking sales figures of £43.5m for the year 2021, the port’s best-ever year for sales..."

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/brixham-defies-brexit-covid-storm-6446059

[ThereWeAreThen]

On 6/24/2022 at 11:32 AM, Saru said:

^^ The divisions caused by Brexit are still plain to see six years on.

When slurs like "remoaners" are still being thrown around, you know that there is a long way to go before the country can move on from this debacle.

Britain is in a mess and will be for a long time.

[L.A.T.1961]

2 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Britain is in a mess and will be for a long time.

There will always be claims that the UK is a mess but it doesn't stop increasing numbers of economic migrants walking through the EU to reach here.

Or large numbers from the rest of the world wanting to move to and work in the UK. 

So I think the word mess should be preceded by relative.  

 

[L.A.T.1961]

On 6/24/2022 at 12:45 PM, So Far Away said:

You um do realise that MEPs are virtually powerless in the EU's fake Parliament, and are just essentially there for rubber-stamping don't you? Unlike our MPs they do not propose laws (it is very different, even though Remoaners try and pretend otherwise). Yes, we can elect an MEP to the EU's fake Parliament, but all EU Commissioners are unelected appointees. As the real power in any system lies with those who formulate policy and laws, which the EU Commission does with their fake Parliament simply rubber stamping what they are given, then the real power in the EU lies with unelected officials.

We were brought up in a country where the only people making our laws were politicians directly elected by us. In the EU, we cannot vote for the Commissioners, and we cannot vote them out of office either. The ELECTED body of MEPs do not have the authority to even suggest laws in the first place; Tell me, if every British MEP voted against an EU directive that detrimentally affected the UK, would their combined vote make a difference? No, of course it wouldn't, not if every other MEP in Brussels had voted in favour of it. That is not democracy, that is elected dictatorship - and the system is designed and fixed so that the drive for federalism will never be slowed, it is designed to avoid radical change.

Plus, the Commissioners work solely for the interests of the European Union, not for the interests of their representative country within the EU system. They even swear an oath to carry out their responsibilities "in the general interest of the Union" and "neither to seek nor to take instructions from *ANY* Government or from *ANY* other institution, body, office or entity."

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_10_487

 

Welcome to the forum. 

[Silver]

3 hours ago, So Far Away said:

Our fishing industry was decimated when we were conned into joining that far too overpriced political union folly, because of the EU's 'Common Fisheries Policy' (CFP), and the principle of equal access to Europe’s fishing waters for all member states. This is an agreement whereby EU nations do not control their own territorial waters or set their own quotas to catch fish. Instead, fish are classed as a common resource and the rules governing fishing quotas, catch levels, subsidies, discards and a whole range of other measures are set centrally by the European Commission. Now, with the zero tariff, zero quota Free Trade Agreement we have with the EU (which is the only one *EVER* to be struck between the EU and a non-member by the way), we have increased our quota in British waters, with more increases year by year for the next 5 years. None of this was possible whilst we were in the EU.

Here's an article from 'Devon News Live', dated 5th January 2022, headlined: "Brixham defies Brexit and Covid storm to smash fish sale record"

Quote: "Brixham Fish Market has posted Brexit-beating, record-breaking sales figures of £43.5m for the year 2021, the port’s best-ever year for sales..."

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/brixham-defies-brexit-covid-storm-6446059

I have also read that Brixham has done well, that is great news. The industry as a whole feels very let down, I don't know if you have read June Mummery's views? Some fishing companies have had to scale back, some have gone completely in the shell fish industry.

Brexit “fails to deliver Government promises on fishing industry”, new study reveals - News and events, University of York

Edited June 25, 2022 by The Silver Shroud

[Ozymandias]

Brexit is a failure.

Brexit has not delivered on its promises and has not been good for Britain. Northern Ireland has done well out of it (but then it did not Brexit like the rest of the UK). London continues to do well, but London is not Britain.

Unsurprisingly, Rees-Mogg, who is charged with finding the benefits of Brexit, failed to find anything obvious himself and had to ask the readers of a tabloid newspaper. Think about that! A government minister did not ask economic or any other experts for their suggestions (there are none!), but trawled instead the readers of tabloid newspapers to point out the benefits of its own policy where it was entirely bereft of any obvious ideas!  A cynical ruling elite, represented by a privileged, privately-educated, self-serving opportunist, went through the charade of consulting 'the wise readers of the Sun' and, boy, did they come up with some humdingers out of their collective ignorance. And Rees-Mogg was characteristically patronising in praise of their homework and they equally appreciative of being exploited by him: everything from more powerful vacuum cleaners and electrically assisted pedal bikes to yellow-pack medical professionals and less-qualified agency workers. 

Meh! Totally uninspiring and decidedly unexceptional, to say the least, although given the source of these suggestion, hardly surprising. These suggestions will all likely prove detrimental in the long run for the people proffering them. 

Brexit is a failure. Nothing promised has been delivered.

Any emotionally detached, politically neutral, and reasonably educated observer could not think otherwise.

 

[So Far Away]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

Brexit is a failure.

Brexit has not delivered on its promises and has not been good for Britain. Northern Ireland has done well out of it (but then it did not Brexit like the rest of the UK). London continues to do well, but London is not Britain.

Unsurprisingly, Rees-Mogg, who is charged with finding the benefits of Brexit, failed to find anything obvious himself and had to ask the readers of a tabloid newspaper. Think about that! A government minister did not ask economic or any other experts for their suggestions (there are none!), but trawled instead the readers of tabloid newspapers to point out the benefits of its own policy where it was entirely bereft of any obvious ideas!  A cynical ruling elite, represented by a privileged, privately-educated, self-serving opportunist, went through the charade of consulting 'the wise readers of the Sun' and, boy, did they come up with some humdingers out of their collective ignorance. And Rees-Mogg was characteristically patronising in praise of their homework and they equally appreciative of being exploited by him: everything from more powerful vacuum cleaners and electrically assisted pedal bikes to yellow-pack medical professionals and less-qualified agency workers. 

Meh! Totally uninspiring and decidedly unexceptional, to say the least, although given the source of these suggestion, hardly surprising. These suggestions will all likely prove detrimental in the long run for the people proffering them. 

Brexit is a failure. Nothing promised has been delivered.

Any emotionally detached, politically neutral, and reasonably educated observer could not think otherwise.

 

You're basing your assumption that Brexit has failed when it's literally been 18 months since we left the transition period, whilst being in the middle of a global pandemic, and pretty much every single country on the entire planet has been in political and economic turmoil for well over 2 years?

There is no way you can extrapolate any long-term meaningful data on how well (or not) Brexit is going in that short a timespan, but according to you, Brexit is a failure. Alright, let's do it your way then.

We joined the EEC (the EU's predecessor), in 1973. UK inflation in 1972 (the year before we joined) was 7.13%, but after we joined in 1973 inflation jumped to 9.10%. It then went to 16.04% in 1974. It rocketed to 24.24% in 1975, and by 1976 our economy was so screwed that we were forced to go begging to the IMF for a bailout, otherwise we'd have gone bust.

So based on your own same short timespan between us actually leaving the transition period and the present date, then obviously joining the EEC/EU was an absolute disaster as well then.

[So Far Away]

3 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

I have also read that Brixham has done well, that is great news. The industry as a whole feels very let down, I don't know if you have read June Mummery's views? Some fishing companies have had to scale back, some have gone completely in the shell fish industry.

Brexit “fails to deliver Government promises on fishing industry”, new study reveals - News and events, University of York

Here's an interesting article titled "Brexit and Britain’s Fisheries" from the 'British Sea Fishing' website, which provides information and advice on all aspects of shore fishing around the UK with information on techniques, bait, tactics and fishing marks across the country. As well as this there are features and articles on wider issues such as commercial fishing, conservation and the sea fish species and other sea creatures found around the British Isles. This article looks at the EEC/EU, Brexit and its impact on the control and management of the UK’s fisheries. Events up to the end of January 2021 are covered.

Quote: The way quotas are set centrally by the EU is also seen as being hugely unfair to British fishermen, as they can often end up getting only a small proportion of the catch within their own waters, as the following statistics show:

. 40% of Denmark’s entire fishing take comes from Britain’s territorial waters.

. In the Celtic Sea, France gets nearly three times the British allocation of Dover sole, roughly four times more cod and five times more haddock. France has 84% of the quota for cod in the English Channel, while Britain has only 9%.

. A single Dutch trawler, the Cornelis Vrolijk, had the right to catch 23% of England’s entire fishing quota (as of 2020). In comparison, the entire small inshore fishing fleet for the whole of England is given 4% of the quota.

. European fishermen take 173 times more herring, 45 times more whiting, 16 times more mackerel and 14 times more haddock and cod out of UK waters than British fishermen do.

. The amount of fish landed in British ports has declined from around one million tons in 1973 (the year Britain joined the EC) to 446,000 tons in 2016.

https://britishseafishing.co.uk/brexit-and-britains-fisheries/

[L.A.T.1961]

21 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Brexit is a failure.

Brexit has not delivered on its promises and has not been good for Britain. Northern Ireland has done well out of it (but then it did not Brexit like the rest of the UK). London continues to do well, but London is not Britain.

 

Brexit is a failure. Nothing promised has been delivered.

 

 

The UK is out of the custom union and mostly out (NI) the single market. There is no longer an EU membership cost, or additional costs since leaving brought about by EU covid bail out fund. Or an extra cost for an EU green development fund. 

There is no future cost to UK associated with an EU desire for a dedicated army. 

Strangely I see no estimates for these savings by the pro EU lobby. 

And then there are the extra costs created by EU membership which resulted in the UK paying a leaving bill of £40 billion, these costs, unknown to most UK citizens before brexit, would have kept accruing as a member.

The UK will not be part of any EU energy market so the UK will miss out on the need to share, via interconnect pipelines, its own oil and gas supply if shortages become extreme and threaten UK energy security. 

Which now Russia has reduced European Gas supplies again is more likely to happen.

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

The UK is out of the custom union and mostly out (NI) the single market. There is no longer an EU membership cost, or additional costs since leaving brought about by EU covid bail out fund. Or an extra cost for an EU green development fund. 

There is no future cost to UK associated with an EU desire for a dedicated army. 

Strangely I see no estimates for these savings by the pro EU lobby. 

And then there are the extra costs created by EU membership which resulted in the UK paying a leaving bill of £40 billion, these costs, unknown to most UK citizens before brexit, would have kept accruing as a member.

The UK will not be part of any EU energy market so the UK will miss out on the need to share, via interconnect pipelines, its own oil and gas supply if shortages become extreme and threaten UK energy security. 

Which now Russia has reduced European Gas supplies again is more likely to happen.

Over the past few years what it all boils down to is an argument between national individualism vs international collectivism, and not unsurprising is that it also decides if someone has a preference for left or right wing politics. People don`t dumb themselves down, unless they are lacking in the confidence to stand out form the herd. They live up to their strengths as should nation states.

[Ozymandias]

On 6/25/2022 at 7:00 PM, So Far Away said:

You're basing your assumption that Brexit has failed when it's literally been 18 months since we left the transition period, whilst being in the middle of a global pandemic, and pretty much every single country on the entire planet has been in political and economic turmoil for well over 2 years?

There is no way you can extrapolate any long-term meaningful data on how well (or not) Brexit is going in that short a timespan, but according to you, Brexit is a failure. Alright, let's do it your way then.

We joined the EEC (the EU's predecessor), in 1973. UK inflation in 1972 (the year before we joined) was 7.13%, but after we joined in 1973 inflation jumped to 9.10%. It then went to 16.04% in 1974. It rocketed to 24.24% in 1975, and by 1976 our economy was so screwed that we were forced to go begging to the IMF for a bailout, otherwise we'd have gone bust.

So based on your own same short timespan between us actually leaving the transition period and the present date, then obviously joining the EEC/EU was an absolute disaster as well then.

Brexit is a failure. Nothing that the Tories promised has been delivered.

As I said, any emotionally detached, politically neutral, and reasonably educated observer could not think otherwise.

I guess that does not describe you.