Roe v Wade: US Supreme Court strikes down abortion rights

[Golden Duck]

Just now, spartan max2 said:

This is only speculation on my part because the news stories don't go into details on how the family found out.

But rape stories often dont come out for years even.

For this family the kid having symptoms from being pregnant could of been what led them to the doctor in the first place and then tipped them off to it 

In my book, a pregnant 10-year-old is prima facie rape.

[RavenHawk]

3 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Prison slavery IS state-sponsored slavery.

At first, I thought you meant human trafficking within the prison, which I guess does happen but that’s not what you meant.  Imprisonment is not the same as enslavement.  One is because of the actions of the individual (committing a crime) and the other has nothing to do with one’s actions.  These are two different things.

 

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That’s totslitarianism.

And Authoritarianism.  That’s the ultimate goal of Socialism.  Below is one representation (chart) that I like.  Totalitarianism and Authoritarianism are at the far upper left (100% government control).  It is not a static line.  The flow of drift is toward the upper left.  *ALL* governments drift to the left unless there is some breaking mechanism.  The far lower right (0% government control) has interesting behavior because nothing can be totally without government.  Anarchy is a transition, usually from a collapsed government to a new government.  When it reaches 0 (or close to it), it is repelled back up on the line somewhere at which point, it begins its drift back to the left.  Drift rate will vary from government to government.  The Libertarian is the exception.  It drifts to the right but it also has the same pole as the 0% end, so its drift and force of repel remains balanced.  That is its breaking mechanism.  The Conservative has a Constitutional Republic that keeps it in place, sometimes shifting to the left and sometimes shifting to the right but basically staying where it belongs.  As long as the breaks stay applied via the Constitution as written, the people are happy and can enjoy the fruits of their labor unfettered by the government.  That is government in its proper place.  Because of how radical these governments are drifting to the 100% end, pushes the center to make it appear that it is drifting right.

 

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Because Trump promoted it.

That’s not the whole story, now is it?  Look who he got his advice from?  He was doing what he thought was the right thing to do.  His instincts told him to hold off a bit, but he got caught up trying to appease the Left (I don’t think he’s going to make that mistake again).  Early on, he was pushing the shots.  He doesn’t do that anymore.  I think somebody showed him the documentation from McCullough, Malone, and others.  He’s still not denouncing them but I think he is focused on the mid-terms.  When they eventually tie SADS to the shot, then he’ll be forced to say something.  I’m pretty sure that if Trump remained President, that he would not have forced any mandates and made it at the discretion of the individual (that probably would have saved more lives).  It wasn’t until Bidet forced the mandates that washed Trump’s responsibility away.

 

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A pair of Wobblies once told me that capitalism is the same as communism, except the communists run a tighter ship.  So you’re saying that capitalism=socialism=communism because all of them enslave the people.

I think they need to take a class in economics and government.  Capitalism is very regularly and incorrectly interchangeable with government, they aren’t the same thing.  That is just laziness.  At times it doesn’t matter.  All governments use some form of capitalism.  The form of capitalism is shaped by the type of government.  I’m saying that all types of government, except for one is designed to enslave the people.  They also enslave capitalism.  How it’s done varies with the form of government.  Dirigisme (planned economy) vs laissez-faire free market.  Christianity, the Invisible Hand, & a Constitutional Republic are kindred institutions.  They work well together.  These are the ultimate expression of Man’s existence.  The next level in Man’s evolution.  Anything less is tyranny.  Tyranny is unfortunately the history of Man.  Man has a propensity to wallow in it.  Jefferson lamented on it but gave us hope as well.

 

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Librals are not socialists.

They are Socialists in training (so to speak).  At one time, the classical liberal held this country’s best interest to heart (no longer).  The classical liberal went extinct.  In time, Liberalism went to Progressivism, then to Socialism, and now Marxism.  They don’t hide the fact any more.  They are very up front about getting rid of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.  If you keep touting Democratic Socialism and the Marxists come to power (which they pretty nearly have), you will go from useful idiot to useless eater and they will come for you!  Between the polls, utter failure, and the recent Supreme Court decisions has put the Left into a panic and they are speeding up their timetable, making mistakes.  What is coming next?

 

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I didn't know you were a Marxist.

Why would a Marxist rail against Marxism as much as I do and be a Marxist??  Please try to think clearly and logically.  I’m a Constitutionalist (more or less an originalist) at heart.  I guess that is more of a Conservative Populist, anti-establishment.

 

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There is no such thing as a free market.  Somebody always controls it.

Under a Socialist nation, there is no free market.  Like an enslaved population, the economy is always controlled by one person or an oligarchy.  It is very tightly controlled.  A laissez-faire free market is hard for one entity to control.  That’s the point.  There is nothing wrong with the government nudging it from time to time but the rule of thumb is hands off.  As long as monopolies are regulated, the free market will be fine.  Monopolies are a poison to free markets.  Markets are always fluctuating (that is why government should never get involved).  That is natural/normal.  Instead of trying to control it, governments need to learn how to harness it.  Prepare for the bad times during the good times, etc.

 

[RavenHawk]

On 7/1/2022 at 3:37 PM, Doug1066 said:

And sometimes that owner is a private individual, a corporation, an association of workers or the government.  Here is the US they all co-exist.

Absolutely, but the government does not have a monopoly on ownership.

 

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The US Forest Service is government owned.  It produces wood, water, recreation and other products. 

It isn’t the sole producer.  Usually, the government cannot compete with private ownership.  The taxpayer ends up subsidizing it.  We need to end that practice.

 

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By definition, it is communist. 

The basic functions of government are not Communist or Socialist or anything else.

 

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Many companies are owned by their employees.  That is socialism. 

Employee-owned companies are not Socialist or Communist or anything else.

 

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And many companies are owned by shareholders or other private individuals.  That is capitalism. 

Correct.    And that alone does not indicate Communism, Socialism, or a Constitutional Republic.  How much of that ownership is controlled by the government?  Who pulls the strings?

 

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But what is it when the owner of a corporation is another corporation?  That's getting pretty close to faschism.

Not necessarily.  Again, that depends on the government.

 

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So what are the democratic socialist countries of northern Europe?

Which ones are not?  Every nation on the planet but one is some flavor of Socialism.  The argument “no, we’re not Democratic Socialist, we’re a Socialist Democracy” has no meaning.  It’s still tyranny.  What matters is how much control does the government have?  How free are the people?

 

[Rlyeh]

On 6/27/2022 at 2:38 PM, RavenHawk said:

It’s the ideology of death and slavery that I hate.

Interesting that your death cult supports both.

[+DieChecker]

On 7/1/2022 at 2:41 PM, spartan max2 said:

10 year old has to drive to Indiana since she was 6 weeks and 3 days pregnant. 

because for some dumb **** reason. Ohio dosen't have an exception for rape. (Which for most people is irrelevant anyways since rape is hard to prove)

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2022/07/01/ohio-girl-10-among-patients-going-indiana-abortion/7788415001/

She should sue for expenses and damages. Enough lawsuits, and the laws change. 

[darkmoonlady]

9 year olds can get their periods. Girls can go through what is medically termed a precocious period, they happen for various reasons, all common enough. Some parents choose to delay the precocious periods with hormone treatments and some don't, depends on if kids have other health issues. It's happened unfortunately a lot when people don't know their child is being sexually victimized, and the girls certainly don't register they're pregnant until the parents notice which is way past the six week requirement in Ohio. Girls can also have very light periods they don't recognize it. Being that they're underage it is ALWAYS rape. Minors cannot consent. 

States with trigger bans already have bills in the pipe to restrict travel. The constitutionality of those laws is in question but I assume they'll attempt to prosecute if they think they can get away with it. 

The blase remarks about oh well just travel are not taking into account that not everyone can afford abortions, travel, including staying up to days or weeks in a hotel as clinics are busy. As a disabled woman, it's also upsetting as disabled women are 11 times more likely to die from pregnancy complications, many of which can require termination. And travel for disabled people is extra difficult. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by darkmoonlady

[+susieice]

The child is 10 years old. It's rape. In fact, it's 1st degree sexual assault. Any child under the age of consent is not legally able to give consent to the act. At the age of 10, forget it.  I hope those parents go after the man who impregnated her because he belongs in jail. I really hope it wasn't a family member who is responsible. Far too much of that happens.

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States

Ages of consent in the United States - Wikipedia

A 12-year-old can consent to any 13-year-old. A 12-year-old cannot consent to any 14-year-old. Consensual (between minors) sexual intercourse over the 2-year age difference (where the minor is under 13 years old) would subject the older minor to a charge of Sexual Assault, 1st Degree, in violation of C.G.S. § 53a-70(a)(2).

Edited July 3, 2022 by susieice

[Myles]

this guy lost his job and deserved to lose his job.   

A Universal Music Group employee said he was fired from his job for refusing to work after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last month, and claimed the termination showed the company did not support its workers "speaking out" about abortion rights.

Lopez said that every Friday, one of his tasks was to "process reports for upcoming releases" and he would then have to email his work to a list of 275 people. However, after the court's ruling, he decided not to complete the task and emailed his coworkers letting them know.

"I didn't do them today," Lopez wrote in the email of the neglected work. "I'm in mourning due to the attack on people with uteruses in the US. Federally guaranteed access to abortion is gone."

"Vivendi and Universal Music Group must stop donating to anti-abortion, anti-queer and anti-trans politicians," he wrote. "Politicians like Marsha Blackburn, Ken Buck, Victoria Spartz, etc. Or expect more unproductive days."

 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/employee-fired-refusing-work-roe-v-wade-ruling

[Michelle]

14 minutes ago, Myles said:

this guy lost his job and deserved to lose his job. 

Poor little snowflake.

[+Desertrat56]

On 7/2/2022 at 5:26 PM, spartan max2 said:

The majority don't, but some do. And it's gruesome, but sexual abuse can cause you to hit puberty and start having periods earlier. 

Yes, I didn't think about that and I think I remember a girl in my daughter's girl scout group that did, and it was very weird.  They were all 10 years old.  My daughter and I had a conversation about the subject of children being molested because of an incident that my grandson experienced at his dad's this last weekend.   The dad has a friend, Dave, who children hate because he is mean.  My grandson is 11 and his little brother is 5.  When Dave showed up they were in the pool and Dave came over and grabbed their heads and shoved them under the water, holding them down. He thought it was funny and the drunk adults sitting by watching never said a word to Dave.  Then my grandson helped his brother out of the pool and went to Dave and told him to leave them alone.   He was very upset and is autistic, but he told the man off and instead of sticking up for him his dad told him he needed to toughen up.    So, the message is, "you don't matter, adults can do what the want to you."  

So it is no wonder kids don't tell their parents when some disgusting adult harms them.    We all need to have kids backs, one of those adults should have stuck up for myu grandson.  They were all related to him and they let Dave abuse him.   It happens a lot.   My 89 year old aunt was never told until a few years ago about the abuse her 2nd husband did to her oldest daughter.   I knew because my uncle tried with me, but I told him no, and my little brother was present so he left, but I didn't tell because like my grandson, the adults did not have our backs, we were told we didn't matter in so many ways.   And I know my cousin never told her mother because her mother was always telling her how unimportant and useless she was.

My daughter said "It doesn't matter who the adult is or whether the kid is yours, if you see an adult bullying a kid in any way, you need to have their back."  and she is right.

So, we need to quit denigrating children and start looking in their eyes and listening when they have something to say.

I guess I got that off my chest.   It just makes me so angry that a 10 year old got pregnant from some sociopath that forced himself on her.   That is the only way that could have happened.

[+Desertrat56]

The reason I mentioned that my grandson is autistic, is because it is very hard for him to express himself, but this time he did.  And it was a big deal for him but his dad blew him off.   My grandson's step siblings have not ever spoken up about Dave's abuses because they knew their mother would not do anything.  They are teen agers now and when Dave shows up they disappear.

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yes, I didn't think about that and I think I remember a girl in my daughter's girl scout group that did, and it was very weird.  They were all 10 years old.  My daughter and I had a conversation about the subject of children being molested because of an incident that my grandson experienced at his dad's this last weekend.   The dad has a friend, Dave, who children hate because he is mean.  My grandson is 11 and his little brother is 5.  When Dave showed up they were in the pool and Dave came over and grabbed their heads and shoved them under the water, holding them down. He thought it was funny and the drunk adults sitting by watching never said a word to Dave.  Then my grandson helped his brother out of the pool and went to Dave and told him to leave them alone.   He was very upset and is autistic, but he told the man off and instead of sticking up for him his dad told him he needed to toughen up.    So, the message is, "you don't matter, adults can do what the want to you."  

So it is no wonder kids don't tell their parents when some disgusting adult harms them.    We all need to have kids backs, one of those adults should have stuck up for myu grandson.  They were all related to him and they let Dave abuse him.   It happens a lot.   My 89 year old aunt was never told until a few years ago about the abuse her 2nd husband did to her oldest daughter.   I knew because my uncle tried with me, but I told him no, and my little brother was present so he left, but I didn't tell because like my grandson, the adults did not have our backs, we were told we didn't matter in so many ways.   And I know my cousin never told her mother because her mother was always telling her how unimportant and useless she was.

My daughter said "It doesn't matter who the adult is or whether the kid is yours, if you see an adult bullying a kid in any way, you need to have their back."  and she is right.

So, we need to quit denigrating children and start looking in their eyes and listening when they have something to say.

I guess I got that off my chest.   It just makes me so angry that a 10 year old got pregnant from some sociopath that forced himself on her.   That is the only way that could have happened.

I completely agree. People need to take their kids seriously.

I have a number of clients with very similar stories, they told family and family didn't believe them. Said they were confused or misunderstood. Or worse that it were their fault. 

 

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I completely agree. People need to take their kids seriously.

I have a number of clients with very similar stories, they told family and family didn't believe them. Said they were confused or misunderstood. Or worse that it were their fault. 

 

lot of bad parents in this world.  I was fortunate with my upbringing and my wife and I's parenting skills.   We treated our kids like adults in many ways even when they were 4-5.   I think it helped them mature and make good decisions in life, so far.  

[Doug1066]

On 7/5/2022 at 8:51 AM, Myles said:

this guy lost his job and deserved to lose his job.   

A Universal Music Group employee said he was fired from his job for refusing to work after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last month, and claimed the termination showed the company did not support its workers "speaking out" about abortion rights.

Lopez said that every Friday, one of his tasks was to "process reports for upcoming releases" and he would then have to email his work to a list of 275 people. However, after the court's ruling, he decided not to complete the task and emailed his coworkers letting them know.

"I didn't do them today," Lopez wrote in the email of the neglected work. "I'm in mourning due to the attack on people with uteruses in the US. Federally guaranteed access to abortion is gone."

"Vivendi and Universal Music Group must stop donating to anti-abortion, anti-queer and anti-trans politicians," he wrote. "Politicians like Marsha Blackburn, Ken Buck, Victoria Spartz, etc. Or expect more unproductive days."

 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/employee-fired-refusing-work-roe-v-wade-ruling

Sounds pretty iffy to me.

Doug

[darkmoonlady]

The heartbeat trigger laws that came after Roes reversal are having dire consequences on womens health. Women are now being switched off of certain blood thinners in states where the drugs are also possible abortificant meds, as well as women needing cancer treatment are being denied access to treatment as chemotherapy can harm a fetus. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by darkmoonlady

[Myles]

14 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Sounds pretty iffy to me.

Doug

Why is that?    Not only did he not do his job, but he bad mouthed the company on social media.    We had someone fired from the place I work for doing that.   Most places have you sign a paper stating that you will not do that.   This guy deserved to be fired.  

[Doug1066]

5 hours ago, Myles said:

Why is that?    Not only did he not do his job, but he bad mouthed the company on social media.    We had someone fired from the place I work for doing that.   Most places have you sign a paper stating that you will not do that.   This guy deserved to be fired.  

He didn't have much of a legal leg to stand on.  His case sounds rather shaky.

Doug

[+DieChecker]

On 7/5/2022 at 6:51 AM, Myles said:

this guy lost his job and deserved to lose his job.   

A Universal Music Group employee said he was fired from his job for refusing to work after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last month, and claimed the termination showed the company did not support its workers "speaking out" about abortion rights.

Lopez said that every Friday, one of his tasks was to "process reports for upcoming releases" and he would then have to email his work to a list of 275 people. However, after the court's ruling, he decided not to complete the task and emailed his coworkers letting them know.

"I didn't do them today," Lopez wrote in the email of the neglected work. "I'm in mourning due to the attack on people with uteruses in the US. Federally guaranteed access to abortion is gone."

"Vivendi and Universal Music Group must stop donating to anti-abortion, anti-queer and anti-trans politicians," he wrote. "Politicians like Marsha Blackburn, Ken Buck, Victoria Spartz, etc. Or expect more unproductive days."

 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/employee-fired-refusing-work-roe-v-wade-ruling

Ha! Either a guy seeking to take advantage, or a truly woke individual, who's a product of the liberal left. Either way his actions did him more harm then good. A lesson perhaps for others to learn from.

[+Desertrat56]

30 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Ha! Either a guy seeking to take advantage, or a truly woke individual, who's a product of the liberal left. Either way his actions did him more harm then good. A lesson perhaps for others to learn from.

The idiot should have called in sick if he truly was that upset, instead he went in to work and caused a rukus so of course he got fired, as he should.  

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

He didn't have much of a legal leg to stand on.  His case sounds rather shaky.

Doug

Gotcha.   I read your post wrong.   I thought you meant it was iffy that he got fired.  

[Autistocrates]

Little does he know, U.S. citizenship can never be fully renounced:

https://globalnews.ca/news/8949886/billie-joe-armstrong-renounce-us-citizenship-roe-v-wade/

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...Billie Joe Armstrong told fans during a concert in London that he will renounce his United States citizenship, just hours after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade...

Might "he" move to Cucknada?

 

[el midgetron]

It’s always racism -

 

 

 

 

 

[Tatetopa]

Where does this lead?

My wife and I still go to church, I go a lot less often than  she does.  The church we go to has a tolerance for LGBTQ people and abortion.  If we disapprove of the policies of our church, we can find another one.  That to me is freedom of religion. 

In school, I was taught that a major reason the Pilgrims came to America was to worship God in their own way.  They left behind European monarchs and state churches. 

Gen. Flynn and his followers on the conservative right want a single unified state and a single unified religion.  

Now the Supreme Court is telling us that we must obey a state approved Preacher in a state approved church with state approved views of God and Jesus.  Some would counter that Jesus was a rabbi and the  Jewish view is that life begins at first breath.  Life beginning at insemination is  the view of the new wannabe state church.

This would be pretty familiar to the Pilgrims.  You are free to worship; if you do it our way.  I didn't think that basic tenant that stretches back to our founding would go away so quickly.

 

[Myles]

30 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Where does this lead?

My wife and I still go to church, I go a lot less often than  she does.  The church we go to has a tolerance for LGBTQ people and abortion.  If we disapprove of the policies of our church, we can find another one.  That to me is freedom of religion. 

In school, I was taught that a major reason the Pilgrims came to America was to worship God in their own way.  They left behind European monarchs and state churches. 

Gen. Flynn and his followers on the conservative right want a single unified state and a single unified religion.  

Now the Supreme Court is telling us that we must obey a state approved Preacher in a state approved church with state approved views of God and Jesus.  Some would counter that Jesus was a rabbi and the  Jewish view is that life begins at first breath.  Life beginning at insemination is  the view of the new wannabe state church.

This would be pretty familiar to the Pilgrims.  You are free to worship; if you do it our way.  I didn't think that basic tenant that stretches back to our founding would go away so quickly.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement.   Not with the Jewish view that life begins with the first breath though.  I'm against abortions after 5 months.  

[Guest Xetan]

11 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Where does this lead?

My wife and I still go to church, I go a lot less often than  she does.  The church we go to has a tolerance for LGBTQ people and abortion.  If we disapprove of the policies of our church, we can find another one.  That to me is freedom of religion. 

In school, I was taught that a major reason the Pilgrims came to America was to worship God in their own way.  They left behind European monarchs and state churches. 

Gen. Flynn and his followers on the conservative right want a single unified state and a single unified religion.  

Now the Supreme Court is telling us that we must obey a state approved Preacher in a state approved church with state approved views of God and Jesus.  Some would counter that Jesus was a rabbi and the  Jewish view is that life begins at first breath.  Life beginning at insemination is  the view of the new wannabe state church.

This would be pretty familiar to the Pilgrims.  You are free to worship; if you do it our way.  I didn't think that basic tenant that stretches back to our founding would go away so quickly.

 

Religion really should have no part in the conversation at all, and it's pretty obtuse to call for freedom of/from religion in defense of abortion, just as religious arguments for why abortion should be illegal are illegitimate.

Why is it that we can all agree that murdering a born human being is wrong without tying that conversation to religion, but murdering an unborn human is somehow all about religion? They're the same conversation: "Is it okay to kill people who inconvenience you?"

"But muh religious freedom" has nothing to do with it.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Xetan