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Supreme Court sides with high school coach who led prayer on football field


OverSword
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The Supreme Court’s conservatives ruled on Monday for a high school football coach who was reprimanded for leading postgame prayers on the football field’s 50-yard line.

The 6-3 decision marked a win for coach Joseph Kennedy in his dispute with the Seattle-area school district that placed him on paid leave for violating a policy that bars staff from encouraging students to engage in prayer.

“Respect for religious expressions is indispensable to life in a free and diverse Republic—whether those expressions take place in a sanctuary or on a field, and whether they manifest through the spoken word or a bowed head,” Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote for the majority.

“The only meaningful justification the government offered for its reprisal rested on a mistaken view that it had a duty to ferret out and suppress religious observances even as it allows comparable secular speech. The Constitution neither mandates nor tolerates that kind of discrimination,” he added.

 

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Good! I hate how this country is treating religious people. It's disgusting.

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If he knew the rule and intentionally broke it, I don't have any sympathy for him.   to me it depends on what the prayer was about.  

If he said:

Lord, help us be strong during this game and handle whatever is thrown at us, Amen.

I have no issue.

If he said:

From Collossians. Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

That pushed it too far.

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8 minutes ago, Myles said:

If he knew the rule and intentionally broke it, I don't have any sympathy for him.   to me it depends on what the prayer was about.  

If he said:

Lord, help us be strong during this game and handle whatever is thrown at us, Amen.

I have no issue.

If he said:

From Collossians. Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

That pushed it too far.

Why? Who are you to judge?

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7 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Why? Who are you to judge?

I just stated my opinion.   The first one could be applied to most religions while the second one could not.  

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22 minutes ago, Myles said:

I just stated my opinion.   The first one could be applied to most religions while the second one could not.  

Logged, noted and summarily dismissed. My opinion is that what someone prays is no else's business. 

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2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Logged, noted and summarily dismissed. My opinion is that what someone prays is no else's business. 

i agree to a point.   But if he/she requires the rest of the team to participate, they are making it other peoples business.  

I say keep it somewhat generic so anyone can be praying to their own god.  

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And it continues, another precedent overturned. The Ayatollahs strike again.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

And it continues, another precedent overturned. The Ayatollahs strike again.

And what precedent was overturned???  I think you're confused.  This did not overturn anything.  Did this guy have the right to pray with others after a game on the field?  Turns out the answer is yes, he has that right and the school's rule violated his right.  Prayer has been allowed on school grounds for a long time.  Just not compelled prayer.

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39 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And what precedent was overturned???  I think you're confused.  This did not overturn anything.  Did this guy have the right to pray with others after a game on the field?  Turns out the answer is yes, he has that right and the school's rule violated his right.  Prayer has been allowed on school grounds for a long time.  Just not compelled prayer.

But compelled prayer was exactly what this case was about. Multiple players say they felt forced into praying.

The SC has already ruled in the past that people who work for the state cannot pray while working because it is seen as the state endorsing religion, which is prohibited precisely for the reason mentioned above. It’s one of the main reasons behind having a separation of state and church.

This SC is completely doing away with separation of church and state, one bit at a time. Your future is a theocracy. I mean it practically is now anyway with the Ayatollahs ruling on laws.

It’s crazy that you can’t see where things are heading. You’ve all been warned for years that this was McConnell’s goal, with the Senate doing practically nothing but packing courts with unqualified, fundamentalist judges for a decade. But you simply refuse to see if because you legitimately think that Dems are as bad as, or worse than, Republicans.

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First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

But at least you guys are sticking it to the Dems, eh?

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

i agree to a point.   But if he/she requires the rest of the team to participate, they are making it other peoples business.  

I say keep it somewhat generic so anyone can be praying to their own god.  

No one can be forced to pray to anything they do not choose to pray to, or even pray, at all. I say stop trying to control what others think and say. It's none of your business.

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52 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

compelled prayer was exactly what this case was about. Multiple players say they felt forced into praying.

There is nothing in the OP about complaints from players.

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8 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

There is nothing in the OP about complaints from players.

I read a different article earlier in the day.

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1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The SC has already ruled in the past that people who work for the state cannot pray while working because it is seen as the state endorsing religion, which is prohibited precisely for the reason mentioned above. It’s one of the main reasons behind having a separation of state and church.

Allowing freedom of religion is not the same as endorsing it and the much ballyhooed phrase "separation of church and state" appears nowhere in the constitution. It, with all the subsequent interpretations of it, is itself an interpretation of the clause prohibiting a state religion such as the Anglican Church. The constitution says nowhere that government officials and employees are to be forcefully separated from their religion and any expression thereof. If that were the case, then Jew must be separated from his kippah, the Sik from his turban Islamic women from their veil. This is clearly as unacceptable as telling people not to pray. 

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1 minute ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I read a different article earlier in the day.

And didn't provide a link, twice.

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12 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

And didn't provide a link, twice.

Why do you think he was fired in the first place?

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Although Kennedy claims no one has ever felt pressured to join him, one student player had come forward anonymously to say he joined in one of the prayers despite his own beliefs due to fear of losing play time.

https://planetnewspost.com/u-k-news/supreme-court-backs-high-school-football-coach-placed-on-leave-for-praying-after-games/
 

Which itself infringes on a student’s protections laid out in literally the first sentence of the First Amendment.

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The First Amendment provides that Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise.

This is nothing but religious control. There is an exactly 0% chance that this court would have sided with Kennedy if he had been praying to Allah instead of “Jesus” (who, btw, spoke loudly about how people should not pray in this manner and should instead worship God in private. How’s that for irony).

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22 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Allowing freedom of religion is not the same as endorsing it and the much ballyhooed phrase "separation of church and state" appears nowhere in the constitution. It, with all the subsequent interpretations of it, is itself an interpretation of the clause prohibiting a state religion such as the Anglican Church. The constitution says nowhere that government officials and employees are to be forcefully separated from their religion and any expression thereof. If that were the case, then Jew must be separated from his kippah, the Sik from his turban Islamic women from their veil. This is clearly as unacceptable as telling people not to pray. 

The Forefathers spoke on numerous occasions and loudly that this was the intent of the First Amendment.

How can you have religious freedom without this separation? It simply isn’t possible.

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/885/establishment-clause-separation-of-church-and-state#:~:text=The most famous use of,between the church and state.”

 

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37 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

There is nothing in the OP about complaints from players.

You ever play team sports in high school?  If so, what happened to the players that complained?

I don't completely disagree with this decision, but I think the coach doing it on the 50 yard line post game is out of line.  That's going to be something players are compelled to join in on whether they want to or not.  Why not have a group prayer for those who want it in the corner of a locker room?  This seems like one of those times where he was purposefully looking to cause a problem.

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8 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The Forefathers spoke on numerous occasions and loudly that this was the intent of the First Amendment.

How can you have religious freedom without this separation? It simply isn’t possible.

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/885/establishment-clause-separation-of-church-and-state#:~:text=The most famous use of,between the church and state.”

 

You really need to read your links thoroughly and do a lot more study before defining American values to an American.

As presidents, though, both Jefferson and Madison could be accused of mixing religion and government. Madison issued proclamations of religious fasting and thanksgivings while Jefferson signed treaties that sent religious ministers to the Native Americans. And from its inception, the Supreme Court has opened each of its sessions with the cry “God save the United States and this honorable court.”

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

But compelled prayer was exactly what this case was about. Multiple players say they felt forced into praying.

 

Nope.  No player ever complained.  The school officials said they were afraid that could happen.  This is local to me and I've been hearing about this one case for years.  Factually teams pray on the field here all the time, this one school hired a ****** that decided to make a big deal about it.

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The SC has already ruled in the past that people who work for the state cannot pray while working because it is seen as the state endorsing religion, which is prohibited precisely for the reason mentioned above. It’s one of the main reasons behind having a separation of state and church.

 

 

Share that ruling please, because I know that federal building down the street provides spaces for Muslims to pray in five times a day.  Quit making **** up.

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This SC is completely doing away with separation of church and state, one bit at a time. Your future is a theocracy. I mean it practically is now anyway with the Ayatollahs ruling on laws.

 

 

LOL!!!  You have NO IDEA what you are talking about when it comes to the constitutional separation of church and state

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

In no way, shape or form does someone praying on school grounds  constitute a violation of that part of the amendment.

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It’s crazy that you can’t see where things are heading. You’ve all been warned for years that this was McConnell’s goal, with the Senate doing practically nothing but packing courts with unqualified, fundamentalist judges for a decade. But you simply refuse to see if because you legitimately think that Dems are as bad as, or worse than, Republicans.

 

 

I think you misinterpret what this whole ruling is really about.

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But at least you guys are sticking it to the Dems, eh?

This has nothing to do with political parties.  Democrats believe in freedom of speech and religion too you know.

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A school here was reported to the Freedom From Religion Foundation, so they said, for players praying before the game. They said a school official cannot initiate a prayer. It was decided by the school to concede so the entire school, including the attendees, stood up before every game and said a prayer from then on.

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1 hour ago, Agent0range said:

You ever play team sports in high school?  If so, what happened to the players that complained?

I don't completely disagree with this decision, but I think the coach doing it on the 50 yard line post game is out of line.  That's going to be something players are compelled to join in on whether they want to or not.  Why not have a group prayer for those who want it in the corner of a locker room?  This seems like one of those times where he was purposefully looking to cause a problem.

We had to play team sport in high school.

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5 hours ago, Myles said:

From Collossians. Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

Myles - I’m curious what led you to choose that particular Bible verse? 
I’m asking because that verse had a very significant impact on my life. I’d even go so far as to say that Colossians 3:23 saved my life.

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1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Why do you think he was fired in the first place?

https://planetnewspost.com/u-k-news/supreme-court-backs-high-school-football-coach-placed-on-leave-for-praying-after-games/
 

Which itself infringes on a student’s protections laid out in literally the first sentence of the First Amendment.

This is nothing but religious control. There is an exactly 0% chance that this court would have sided with Kennedy if he had been praying to Allah instead of “Jesus” (who, btw, spoke loudly about how people should not pray in this manner and should instead worship God in private. How’s that for irony).

That about what I figured. I doubted the coach directly came out and told people they had to pray.

But players might do it out of fear of losing playtime. 

Its like when your boss invites you to a work outing. You don't have to do it. But you can't help but feel the people who do it will have a better chance at being promoted.

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11 hours ago, simplybill said:

Myles - I’m curious what led you to choose that particular Bible verse? 
I’m asking because that verse had a very significant impact on my life. I’d even go so far as to say that Colossians 3:23 saved my life.

Honestly it was just a random pick.   I am glad it has strong meaning for you.  

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