3 officers killed, 4 others hurt when man opens fire on police serving warrant in Kentucky

[Still Waters]

Three officers were killed when a man opened fire on police attempting to serve a warrant at a home in Kentucky on Thursday night, authorities said. Four other people were injured at the scene in the rural area in a mountainous part of eastern Kentucky.

The Floyd County Sheriff's Office Friday identified two of the slain officers as Deputy William Petry and Prestonsburg police Capt. Ralph Frasure. The third officer passed away from his injuries Friday and was identified Saturday by Kentucky State Police as Prestonsburg police officer Jacob Chaffins.

Meanwhile, three more officers were injured, state police said. Two remain hospitalized in stable condition and third was treated and released. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/allen-kentucky-shooting-lance-storz-arrested-3-officers-killed/

[Autistocrates]

Given the pricey bail of which was set, I guess we could call him the 10 million dollar man

[Gromdor]

Looking at his mugshot, it seems like he fell on his face a couple ten times during his arrest- not that I am particularly complaining.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

And yet, somehow this guy’s still alive. I mean, the US police are happy to Judge Dredd some car thief, but someone who literally just murdered a couple of police? Taken into custody. 

[+Paranoid Android]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

And yet, somehow this guy’s still alive. I mean, the US police are happy to Judge Dredd some car thief, but someone who literally just murdered a couple of police? Taken into custody. 

Believe it or not,  the majority of people survive encounters with police,  even when weapons are involved! A gun is not a guaranteed death sentence, a gun just increases your chance of death when police are involved!

Yours is the worst take on the story I've seen yet...

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

6 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

Believe it or not,  the majority of people survive encounters with police,  even when weapons are involved! A gun is not a guaranteed death sentence, a gun just increases your chance of death when police are involved!

Yours is the worst take on the story I've seen yet...

How many times have we heard “they thought he was armed/he resisted arrest” used to justify police shooting suspects? Loads. Hell, I’m all for police making sure they go home and the bad guy goes to the morgue in situations like this. 
And yet, here we are, witness to the long history of police involved shootings and we have one where police were literally in danger. What meant this guy goes to gaol and someone else goes to hell?

[+Paranoid Android]

3 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

How many times have we heard “they thought he was armed/he resisted arrest” used to justify police shooting suspects? Loads. Hell, I’m all for police making sure they go home and the bad guy goes to the morgue in situations like this. 
And yet, here we are, witness to the long history of police involved shootings and we have one where police were literally in danger. What meant this guy goes to gaol and someone else goes to hell?

If someone is resisting arrest or armed their chance of dying increases. It does not mean it is a guaranteed death sentence, and picking and choosing stories like this ignores the times that white people are shot just as dead as well as the times that black people were shot and survived, or were able to be taken into custody without needing to shoot them. Those happen too, it's ignoring the statistics to jump to unwarranted conclusions like you have.

Like I said, I have not seen a take that stinks quite as much as yours on this story in all of the places I have seen it discussed. You tried to avoid skin colour by just referring to a "car thief" but everyone who can read knows that you were using "car thieves" as a stand-in term for "black victims" and comparing it to this guy.

Only the left can take a story about a white person shooting another white person and turn it into a story about racism in America!  

[+Paranoid Android]

@Sir Wearer of Hats

https://www.wdsu.com/article/new-orleans-tennessee-bj-brown-arrest/40457016#

https://www.wwltv.com/article/news/crime/bj-brown-arrested-tennessee-kill-ex-girlfriend-shoot-officer/289-645663c6-08c3-4b38-be04-7c9c5d0c383e

 

Quote

Tennessee authorities arrest man accused of shooting police officer, killing New Orleans woman

A man accused of killing a woman in New Orleans and then driving to Tennessee and shooting a police officer is now in custody.

BJ Brown is accused of shooting a woman in Downtown New Orleans on Monday before then shooting an Erin police officer later that evening in Tennessee.

BJ Brown shot a police officer and was taken into custody. This story is only a couple of days old. BJ Brown is a person of colour. But let's ignore this one, let's just say that car thieves get executed and white people get taken into custody alive! 

Like I said, your take stinks! 

[+Paranoid Android]

@Sir Wearer of Hats

Quote

Black man who claimed self-defense while shooting a gun found not guilty on same day as Rittenhouse verdict

After the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict was rendered, seemingly every leftist, liberal, and Democrat went on the attack to label him, inexplicably, as a white supremacist. Despite the victims being white and the trial having absolutely nothing at all to do with race, these radical, toxic agitators turned to their “old reliable” trope of racism and white supremacy.

They also claimed that a black man would have never been found innocent while claiming self-defense. Yet, that is exactly what happened in the case of Andrew Coffee IV — on the same day the Rittenhouse verdict was delivered.

Coffee’s case involved police raiding his residence on the suspicion of a drug trafficker living there — Coffee’s father, Andrew Coffee III. The house was raided at around 5 a.m. in March 2017 by deputies with the Indian River County Sheriff’s Office.

Coffee’s defense attorneys argued he was asleep when law enforcement smashed his bedroom window. In a state of confusion, Coffee claimed he feared for his safety because he was unaware of who was breaking into his residence. He fired his gun several times, causing law enforcement officials to return fire. Tragically, Coffee’s girlfriend was killed in the crossfire.

During his trial, Coffee testified that his actions were done in self-defense.

"He said, 'I'm not saying that they didn’t announce [themselves], I'm saying I didn’t hear it," Adam Chrzan, Coffee's attorney, told a local television station. "He believed he was under assault, whatever assault that was."

On Friday, Nov. 19, jurors found Andrew Coffee IV not guilty on charges of felony murder and attempted murder of a law enforcement officer (he was convicted of possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, however). The jury determined that Coffee acted in self-defense when firing at law enforcement during a SWAT raid in 2017.

Full article and further reading - see Source

Didn't get the same level of media attention as some other stories around the same time, but here's another story where a black person got into a gun fight with police and not only survived but was declared Not Guilty on account of self defense. 

[Autistocrates]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

How many times have we heard “they thought he was armed/he resisted arrest” used to justify police shooting suspects?...

There's a video out there of cops shooting dead a homeless Person of Colorless, simply because he was mouthing off at cops armed to the gills with military-issue assault rifles

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

If someone is resisting arrest or armed their chance of dying increases. It does not mean it is a guaranteed death sentence, and picking and choosing stories like this ignores the times that white people are shot just as dead as well as the times that black people were shot and survived, or were able to be taken into custody without needing to shoot them. Those happen too, it's ignoring the statistics to jump to unwarranted conclusions like you have.

Like I said, I have not seen a take that stinks quite as much as yours on this story in all of the places I have seen it discussed. You tried to avoid skin colour by just referring to a "car thief" but everyone who can read knows that you were using "car thieves" as a stand-in term for "black victims" and comparing it to this guy.

Only the left can take a story about a white person shooting another white person and turn it into a story about racism in America!  

Ohh I am so utterly rebuttalled because you found some cases where committing a crime while black didn’t result in summary execution. 
I retract immediately my statement. You’re right, police are colourblind I’m so sorry. 

[+Paranoid Android]

2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Ohh I am so utterly rebuttalled because you found some cases where committing a crime while black didn’t result in summary execution. 
I retract immediately my statement. You’re right, police are colourblind I’m so sorry. 

I can only repeat my earlier comment/s: 

7 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

Yours is the worst take on the story I've seen yet...

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

Only the left can take a story about a white person shooting another white person and turn it into a story about racism in America!  

 

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

9 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

I can only repeat my earlier comment/s: 

I can only say I’m sorry that whatever you expected to read wasn’t there. 
I’m also sorry that this prick isn’t trying to explain to Satan why he doesn’t deserve burning pikes jammed up his ****, so we can both be disappointed. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I’m a copper’s son. 
I came VERY ******* CLOSE to losing him on the job. This is a very hot button issue to me, and I have been ineloquent. 
To surmise my position - shoot at and kill coppers and you need to be promptly “taken to the morgue”, none of this “taken into custody” bull. If a car thief warrants death on “**** about and find out” grounds, so does this prick.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Tiggs
Please don't circumvent the profanity filter.

[+Paranoid Android]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I’m a copper’s son. 
I came VERY ******* CLOSE to losing him on the job. This is a very hot button issue to me, and I have been ineloquent. 
To surmise my position - shoot at and kill coppers and you need to be promptly “taken to the morgue”, none of this “taken into custody” bull. If a car thief warrants death on “**** about and find out” grounds, so does this prick.

I can understand this sentiment far more than your previous posts. I agree with you, if he had been shot and killed, I would have had zero sympathy for him. He would have brought it on himself. Only an idiot or someone with a death wish gets into shootouts with the cops. 
 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Tiggs
Edited quote that circumvented the profanity filter

[Doug1066]

8 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

If someone is resisting arrest or armed their chance of dying increases. It does not mean it is a guaranteed death sentence, and picking and choosing stories like this ignores the times that white people are shot just as dead as well as the times that black people were shot and survived, or were able to be taken into custody without needing to shoot them. Those happen too, it's ignoring the statistics to jump to unwarranted conclusions like you have.

Like I said, I have not seen a take that stinks quite as much as yours on this story in all of the places I have seen it discussed. You tried to avoid skin colour by just referring to a "car thief" but everyone who can read knows that you were using "car thieves" as a stand-in term for "black victims" and comparing it to this guy.

Only the left can take a story about a white person shooting another white person and turn it into a story about racism in America!  

Blacks are killed twice as often as whites in police shootings.  Black Lives Matter has a point here.

In this case, because the perp shot first, the police had every right to kill him.  I think they used remarkable restraint.

BUT:  there are some places, especially in inner cities where police are not at all popular.  Why is that?  What do police do in inner cities that they don't do elsewhere?

Doug

[preacherman76]

17 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Blacks are killed twice as often as whites in police shootings.  Black Lives Matter has a point here.

In this case, because the perp shot first, the police had every right to kill him.  I think they used remarkable restraint.

BUT:  there are some places, especially in inner cities where police are not at all popular.  Why is that?  What do police do in inner cities that they don't do elsewhere?

Doug

That’s just not true. Pound for pound white people get killed more often then black folks. Per 100,000 incidents where the confrontation is considered violent 3 black people die, compared to 4 white people. 

[+Paranoid Android]

9 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Blacks are killed twice as often as whites in police shootings.  Black Lives Matter has a point here.

@preacherman76 mentioned it already, but I wanted to add my thoughts too. You can make statistics say whatever you want, and in the context of police and black people in America, this is doubly so. As a percentage of the population you are 100% correct. More black people are shot than white people. For example, in 2020 there were 9 unarmed black people who were shot by police, while at the same time there were 24 unarmed white people killed. As a percentage of the population (blacks make up 13% of the population, whites make up 75% of the population) it appears as if black people are over-represented (9b/24w=9/33) = a quarter of deaths being black), giving you the justified (but misleading) statistic that "blacks are killed twice as often as whites in police shootings". 

However, that is not the best metric to use, because not every demographic in America is exactly the same. There are objectively more interactions between police and black people because black people are committing more crimes. Black people make up 13% of the population. Half of those are male. That demographic (black men - about 6.5% of the population) is responsible for literally 50% of all gun violence. Other types of violent crime are comparable by the numbers. If 50% of murders are committed by 6.5% of the population it stands to reason that police are going to interact with black people more often than they do with white people, regardless of what the actual demographics of your country is. When you factor in the number of police interactions that black people have and white people have, it actually turns out that police are more trigger happy when confronting white offenders. Police have fewer interactions with white people than black people, yet more white people are killed by police than black people. 

There's a whole slew of complex social reasons for this. Some of these can be addressed through laws and policy changes, but it's actually counterproductive (in my opinion) to boil it down to skin colour. Poverty is a far bigger factor than skin colour in crime statistics. And as an educator (and one who personally grew up on the poverty line and often below it), I will never miss the chance to point out that education is the #1 path out of poverty. 

 

9 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

In this case, because the perp shot first, the police had every right to kill him.  I think they used remarkable restraint.

Probably, but that's not how shootouts work. I don't know if it's a matter of restraint. The guy was literally murdering police officers, if they had a kill shot I'm sure they would have taken it. When it became a stand off instead of a shootout, the odds of survival increased dramatically. Unless he went down the suicide-by-cop route, the situation became a "come out with your hands up" situation. To me there is zero restraint involved in not shooting someone who is surrendering! 

 

9 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

BUT:  there are some places, especially in inner cities where police are not at all popular.  Why is that?  What do police do in inner cities that they don't do elsewhere?

Doug

Plenty of reasons, most of them perceptual. Higher crime rates + cultural perceptions of police + poor media reporting. If the media actually reported police violence correctly, black parents would not be teaching their children to run from cops or afraid that every interaction with police is going to end in violence. It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. Things go wrong when people make stupid decisions, but people have been lied to by the media and are afraid of police and so make stupid decisions, thus when things go wrong, they assume it's confirmation of the media's poor take rather than a result of stupid decisions that people make. 

[Doug1066]

14 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

You can make statistics say whatever you want,

Actually, you can't.  But because Americans are statistically illiterate, they can't tell when somebody is lying with numbers.  It's up to the listener to hold the speaker to account.

According to the 2020 census, blacks made up 12,6% of Americans.  https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjvKIiLzg-AIVSChMCh060wLoEAAYASAAEgJn1PD_BwE

Blacks were 28% of 568 people killed by police in 2021:  https://mappingpoliceviolence.us/  There were only five days in 2021 on which police killed nobody.

There were 159 blacks killed and 409 whites.

Let me restate my proposition:  the probability of a black being killed by police is more than twice that of a white.

And it's more than numbers.  A black cannot drive down a street in his own neighborhood without fear of the police.  He cannot walk along a street at night.   Blacks have been shot for wearing a hoodie, for turning around while holding a cell phone and in one case, the officer couldn't give a reason why he shot a medical tech.

Doug

[Doug1066]

PA:  Poverty is a far bigger factor than skin colour in crime statistics.

It is probably true that poverty has a major effect.  But poverty and race interact.  So we have four groups we have to consider:  rich whites, rich blacks, poor blacks and rich blacks.  Are any of these groups out of proportion to the other ones?  I suggest a 2X2 chi-square test.  It's not very sensitive, but if it picks up something, it's probably there.

41 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Plenty of reasons, most of them perceptual. Higher crime rates + cultural perceptions of police + poor media reporting. If the media actually reported police violence correctly, black parents would not be teaching their children to run from cops or afraid that every interaction with police is going to end in violence. It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. Things go wrong when people make stupid decisions, but people have been lied to by the media and are afraid of police and so make stupid decisions, thus when things go wrong, they assume it's confirmation of the media's poor take rather than a result of stupid decisions that people make. 

Don't try to blame it on the media.  That is a right-wing red herring.

To end the hatred of police, police must show that they're helping these communities.  When the only police you ever see are cruising menacingly down the street in a squad car, or arresting your cousin for a parole violation, or murder the mentally ill kid you called tem to help, or shaking you down to fund the city government, the results are not going to be good.

One good way t end the shake-downs is to require that all money from citations, arrests or civil forfeiture be paid to a state fund that is apportioned annually based on population in each police jurisdiction.  It's the tragedy of the commons in reverse.  If there's little incentive to make trivial arrests, they will end.

Doug

[+Paranoid Android]

3 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Actually, you can't.  But because Americans are statistically illiterate, they can't tell when somebody is lying with numbers.  It's up to the listener to hold the speaker to account.

According to the 2020 census, blacks made up 12,6% of Americans.  https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjvKIiLzg-AIVSChMCh060wLoEAAYASAAEgJn1PD_BwE

Blacks were 28% of 568 people killed by police in 2021:  https://mappingpoliceviolence.us/  There were only five days in 2021 on which police killed nobody.

There were 159 blacks killed and 409 whites.

Let me restate my proposition:  the probability of a black being killed by police is more than twice that of a white.

You've just quoted the exact statistics I did in my last post. I didn't know the numbers off the top of my head for all police killings, but unarmed police killings were 9 black and 24 white people in 2020. 9 out of 33 is 27.2% (I rounded it down to "one quarter" for ease of reference, but that's virtually the exact percentage [159/568 x 100 = 27.99%). It does not surprise me in any way that the statistics for unarmed killings is consistent with the number of all police killings, it's generally what you'd expect!  

What you failed to cite is the number of police interactions over the same period. When factoring in whether there is actually an unfair targeting of black people, you must consider the fact that more black people commit crimes than white people do. That's a simple fact of statistics. Which is why looking at population demographics of all Americans is a misleading figure to compare. You can restate your proposition until the cows come home, but it's using flawed and misleading data that are based on demographics in America and not based on the actual interactions that police have with Americans. 

If there is a demographic in America committing the lion share of crime, they would represent the lion share of deaths at the hands of police, regardless of how representative they are of the total demographics in America. You are taking the fact that a higher percentage of black people die by police than white people as evidence that racism is happening. I take it as evidence that black people are committing more crimes and forcing police into making more life-and-death choices! 

If we can't get past this initial statistic without arguing over its validity, how can we ever hope to open a dialogue on this? 

 

3 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

And it's more than numbers.  A black cannot drive down a street in his own neighborhood without fear of the police.  He cannot walk along a street at night.   Blacks have been shot for wearing a hoodie, for turning around while holding a cell phone and in one case, the officer couldn't give a reason why he shot a medical tech.

Doug

I don't buy that. If black people are afraid, it's because the media has told them to be afraid. Black people in America have a larger chance of being struck by lightning than they do being killed by police while unarmed! You write so confidently about what "black people" are like. "They fear the police", "they cannot walk along a street at night", they're afraid to wear hoodies"... and with all due respect, I call bull on that.  

Candace Owens grew up in a poor neighbourhood and had a family with a history of crime. She made a decision to prioritise education and she has NEVER been afraid of police. She is on record as saying that she is happy to stop and talk to any police, because she knows the actual statistics and knows that she isn't going to be targeted for execution by police. 

When you choose to speak for black people - "they are afraid", they are scared", "they are targeted", it restates all the worst parts of black stereotypes and provides no nuance for the millions of black people who aren't afraid of police or aren't scared. In a sense, this rhetoric is keeping black people in a constant victim state that just reeks of a soft bigotry of low expectations. 

 

3 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

PA:  Poverty is a far bigger factor than skin colour in crime statistics.

It is probably true that poverty has a major effect.  But poverty and race interact.  So we have four groups we have to consider:  rich whites, rich blacks, poor blacks and rich blacks.  Are any of these groups out of proportion to the other ones?  I suggest a 2X2 chi-square test.  It's not very sensitive, but if it picks up something, it's probably there.

I'm not playing a competing victims game. Inequality exists, I am simply proposing ways of dealing with that inequality rather than playing politics with it. 

 

3 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Don't try to blame it on the media.  That is a right-wing red herring.

To end the hatred of police, police must show that they're helping these communities.  When the only police you ever see are cruising menacingly down the street in a squad car, or arresting your cousin for a parole violation, or murder the mentally ill kid you called tem to help, or shaking you down to fund the city government, the results are not going to be good.

One good way t end the shake-downs is to require that all money from citations, arrests or civil forfeiture be paid to a state fund that is apportioned annually based on population in each police jurisdiction.  It's the tragedy of the commons in reverse.  If there's little incentive to make trivial arrests, they will end.

Doug

1. "Cruising menacingly down the street" is a value judgement. How else are police supposed to get from place to place except by driving ("cruising")? How are they supposed to patrol an area without "cruising", and what is the difference between cruising "menacingly" and cruising "nicely"? 

2. Maybe their cousin shouldn't have broken their parole! 

3. Got the statistics on how many mentally ill people are murdered by police? Or is this just an appeal to emotion? 

The media has heaps of blame in this. If they didn't go around scaring people into thinking that the police are going to randomly execute black people in the street, we wouldn't have as many people teaching their kids that the police are all racists who are as likely to murder you as help you! I mentioned it earlier, but the chance of being killed by a police officer if you are unarmed is lower than being struck by lightning, and yet it would be ridiculous for black people (or any person) to refuse to go out in the rain because they are afraid of the lightning! 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

However, in the police are totally not racist news… https://www.npr.org/2022/07/04/1109648170/akron-police-use-of-force 

[+Hammerclaw]

In the meantime, the slaughter goes on, unabated, in Chicago and nary a word from our President.

Chicago sees 37 people shot, 7 killed, in bloody July 4 weekend | Fox News

[Vox]

23 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I’m a copper’s son. 
I came VERY ******* CLOSE to losing him on the job. This is a very hot button issue to me, and I have been ineloquent. 
To surmise my position - shoot at and kill coppers and you need to be promptly “taken to the morgue”, none of this “taken into custody” bull. If a car thief warrants death on “**** about and find out” grounds, so does this prick.

 

 

Appreciate the sentiment but regrettably, that's not how the law works.  You know that.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

50 minutes ago, Vox said:

Appreciate the sentiment but regrettably, that's not how the law works.  You know that.

Law seems to allow for “righteous kills” when it comes to many folks.