Should we tax the childless? (Sunday Times)

[Silver]

We need a national demographic strategy, both in terms of immigration — especially after Brexit, when we should have more control over who enters our country — and for incentivising families to have more children and to have them when they are younger.

First, the UK should aim to have a population that is growing moderately. This will meet objections from the “overcrowded island” crowd (though the UK is far from “full up” — only 6 per cent of land is classified as developed). Yet for a healthy economy and for provision of the services we require — from tanker drivers to care-home assistants — we do need a steady rise in the number of workers, at least to do the tasks robots may never master.

Second, we should adopt a “grow our own” policy, aiming to provide most of the population growth from births within our racially and ethnically diverse country rather than immigration. Nearly 30 per cent of births in the UK are now to mothers born overseas. 

Should we tax the childless? | News | The Sunday Times (archive.ph)

Edited July 3, 2022 by The Silver Shroud

[HandsomeGorilla]

So tax the people who have felt it's become too expensive to have kids. Makes sense...in a politicians mind. After all, need more taxpayers!!! Until they aren't taxpayers and there aren't enough jobs available and they begin depending on the state. 

[simplybill]

Ironic. From the 1968 book “The Population Bomb” written by Paul and Anne Ehrlich:

"What needs to be done?" he wrote, "We must rapidly bring the world population under control, reducing the growth rate to zero or making it negative. Conscious regulation of human numbers must be achieved. Simultaneously we must, at least temporarily, greatly increase our food production." 

“Ehrlich floats the idea of adding "temporary sterilants" to the water supply or staple foods. However, he rejects the idea as unpractical due to "criminal inadequacy of biomedical research in this area."He suggests a tax scheme in which additional children would add to a family's tax burden at increasing rates for more children, as well as luxury taxes on childcare goods. He suggests incentives for men who agree to permanent sterilization before they have two children, as well as a variety of other monetary incentives.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb

[ethereal_scout]

It comes down to a matter of food NOT money. 

[Silver]

China is set to be particularly hit hard by the demographic time bomb, due to their old one child policy. Europe too. The problem is the number of old people not working is starting to overtake the number of people in work that have to support them. 

The annual average decline of 1.73% in China's working-age population sets the scene for much lower economic growth, unless productivity advances rapidly.

Higher labour costs, driven by the rapidly shrinking labour force, are set to push low-margin, labour-intensive manufacturing out of China to labour-abundant countries such as Vietnam, Bangladesh and India.

Already, manufacturing labour costs in China are twice as high as in Vietnam.

At the same time, China will be required to direct more of its productive resources to provision of health, medical and aged-care services to meet the demands of an increasingly elderly population.Could China’s population start falling? - BBC Future

Europe has had higher longevity and lower fertility rates than the rest of the world over the past few decades. It is now the region with the world’s oldest population. The median age in Europe is 43, twelve years older than the rest of the world.

The trend will become more pronounced from 2021 when Europe’s population is forecast by the UN to start shrinking.

The number of people of working age, those aged between 20 and 64 years old, peaked in Europe in 2010. By 2020, there were nearly 12m fewer in this group than a decade earlier, a 2.6 per cent fall. By 2035, there will be about 50m fewer people of working age in Europe than in 2010.

In charts: Europe’s demographic time-bomb  | Financial Times (ft.com)

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by The Silver Shroud

[Still Waters]

3 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

In charts: Europe’s demographic time-bomb  | Financial Times (ft.com)

The Financial Times requires a subscription to read. Linking to subscription news sites is best avoided.

[Silver]

1 hour ago, Still Waters said:

The Financial Times requires a subscription to read. Linking to subscription news sites is best avoided.

That's strange, I would normally link to an achive version but this was readable to me, and I don't have a subscription. I'll try again:In charts: Europe’s demographic time-bomb  | Financial Times (ft.com) Edit: No, you are right, it is readable the first time, but the second time i looked it had gone behind the paywall.

Edited July 4, 2022 by The Silver Shroud

[L.A.T.1961]

At least in the UK the problem caused by an aging population only seems to take into account now and the relatively near future.

Baby boomers that are considered to be the biggest problem group will not last indefinitely and be largely gone in say ten years. Covid has also had an impact here.

That will change the worker retired ratio quite a bit. 

But if automation can be responsible for replacing just 10% of retired workers it must be close, with few baby boomers left, to bring thing's back to the previous long term trend.

So the situation can change by reduction in the elderly as well as bringing in more younger workers or increasing the birth rate.

 

[spartan max2]

Taxing wouldn't work. You got to make it not so dam hard to have a kid and work in more society.

My suggestion would be tax breaks or payments to people who have kids.

Unlimited sick days all around.

Work from home an flex time needs to be a norm in most places of employment. 

And honestly some jobs should allow people to take their infants or babies to work

[Tatetopa]

Its about control isn't it?  Its about maintaining expansion so the stock market will continue to rise.  

It is not about families, individuals, children or a sustainable society. It is about those in control needing more subjects.

 

[Gromdor]

What about just taking in more immigrants?

[Silver]

38 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

What about just taking in more immigrants?

The free flow of labour is essential to all advanced economies, so they can take full advantage of opportunities as they arise. In the UK at the moment, because we have restricted overseas labour, food manufacturers are having to source products outside the UK. In our supermarkets now, we buy pork products labelled "produce of Denmark, processed in Germany" while are farmers are killing pigs for landfill, because we have no abattoir or agricultural workers for ideological reasons.