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Multiple people shot at 4th of July parade in Illinois


susieice
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36 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Two illegal immigrants, 52-year-old Julio Alvarado-Dubon and 38-year-old Rolman Balacarcel, were arrested and charged with being a non-U.S. citizens in possession of a gun after police uncovered a plot that the duo planned a mass shooting at Richmond's July 4 celebration Monday.
 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/potential-richmond-july-4-mass-shooters-charged-noncitizens-possession-firearm-police-say.amp

Glad they stopped the thugs.   they are no better than the thug who killed so many at the July 4th parade.  

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5 hours ago, el midgetron said:

The public concept of a mass shooting usually revolves around the idea that random people are attacked by a gunman in a public space. The source of the number of shootings in your article considers any shooting that involves 4 or more victims to be a “mass shooting”. That can (and does) involve gang violence, domestic violence, theoretically even accidents.

Um no it certainly doesn’t involve Gang Violence, when a number of individuals are killed in a Gang Shooting it’s called Gang Violence! When some mentally twisted or ill individual just starts murdering innocent Americans for no reason and 4 or more Americans are killed or wounded that’s called a MASS SHOOTING.

Before you ask the reason Gang violence doesn’t count in mass shooting is because in the highest percentage of cases of it all participants are involved in the shooting!

Sincerely hope that clears things up for you, hate it when people are confused by such simple subjects, especially when it involves intentional semantics which can be very deceptive !:yes:

5 hours ago, el midgetron said:

 

 


 

“FOUR or more shot and/or killed in a single event [incident], at the same general time and location  not including the shooter”

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/methodology

 

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5 hours ago, Myles said:

Glad they stopped the thugs.   they are no better than the thug who killed so many at the July 4th parade.  

Oh come on, don’t be so mean Myles because even THUGS GIVE HUGS.:D

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5 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Um no it certainly doesn’t involve Gang Violence, when a number of individuals are killed in a Gang Shooting it’s called Gang Violence! When some mentally twisted or ill individual just starts murdering innocent Americans for no reason and 4 or more Americans are killed or wounded that’s called a MASS SHOOTING.

Before you ask the reason Gang violence doesn’t count in mass shooting is because in the highest percentage of cases of it all participants are involved in the shooting!

Sincerely hope that clears things up for you, hate it when people are confused by such simple subjects, especially when it involves intentional semantics which can be very deceptive !:yes:

Ummm… So, your claiming the 314 “mass shootings” counted by the article Sir Wearer of Hats posted, “certainly doesn’t involve gang violence”? Or did you misread what I posted? Because your first paragraph basically says the same thing I said in the comment you responded to. But then you go on in the next two paragraphs to snidely demonstrate that you didn’t comprehend what you read very well. 
 

Yeah, I’m not going to “ask the reason why gang violence” doesn’t count. Because the difference between gang violence and what we think of as “mass shooting” was the point I was making. 
 

Just to “clear things up for you” when I said it “does” involve gang violence, I was referring to the “314” number of mass shootings cited in the article. That number “314” “does” include gang violence, 

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An 8 yr old victim of the shootings is now paralyzed from the waist down. His mother and twin brother were also wounded. The 7 deceased victims are also in this article. The first couple had a 2 yr old son with them who was found wandering around the parade area. The mother's parents have him now and will be his caretakers going forward.

https://www.wfmz.com/news/us/8-year-old-paralyzed-in-parade-attack-awake-asking-for-twin/article_691b8db1-abae-5449-8e89-8f4a4d6b016e.html?fbclid=IwAR22aH2k-bzCqlGaHsGbJOp2xq3buaENJAK0izsAAzO23mJgxmHJ3SU0Ghk#1

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11 minutes ago, susieice said:

An 8 yr old victim of the shootings is now paralyzed from the waist down. His mother and twin brother were also wounded. The 7 deceased victims are also in this article. The first couple had a 2 yr old son with them who was found wandering around the parade area. The mother's parents have him now and will be his caretakers going forward.

https://www.wfmz.com/news/us/8-year-old-paralyzed-in-parade-attack-awake-asking-for-twin/article_691b8db1-abae-5449-8e89-8f4a4d6b016e.html?fbclid=IwAR22aH2k-bzCqlGaHsGbJOp2xq3buaENJAK0izsAAzO23mJgxmHJ3SU0Ghk#1

That’s absolutely terrible, this crap makes sick on so many levels. It reminds me of the civilian casualties in the Middle East, yet it’s even more senseless because in reality these are Americans killing their brothers and sister’s for nothing at all!:cry:

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The suspect legally purchased the rifle used in the attack in Illinois within the past year, Covelli said. In all, police said, he purchased five firearms, which were recovered by officers at his father’s home.

The revelation about his gun purchases is just the latest example of y oung men who were able to obtain guns and carry out massacres in recent months despite glaring warning signs about their mental health and inclination to violence…

…..Under Illinois law, gun purchases can be denied to people convicted of felonies, addicted to narcotics or those who are termed “mental defectives” and capable of harming themselves or others. That might have stopped a suicidal Crimo from getting a weapon.

But under the law, just who is a “mental defective” must be decided by “a court, board, commission or other legal authority.”

https://www.lowellsun.com/2022/07/06/parade-shooting-suspect-bought-5-weapons-despite-threats/

Less than three years ago, police went to Crimo’s home following a call from a family member who said he was threatening “to kill everyone” there, according to Christopher Covelli, a spokesman for the Lake County Major Crime Task Force.

Police confiscated 16 knives, a dagger and a sword, but said there was no sign he had any guns at the time, in September 2019. Earlier, in April 2019, police also responded to a reported suicide attempt by Crimo, Covelli said….

…Illinois State Police, the agency that issues gun owners’ licenses, said in a statement that the then-19-year-old Crimo applied for a license in December 2019. Applicants under 21 require a parent or legal guardian to sponsor the application. His father sponsored his.

Sponsors must sign an affidavit that says the sponsor “shall be liable for any damages resulting from the minor applicant’s use of firearms or firearm ammunition.” It includes no specifics on liability and damages if the child commits a crime with a gun. It’s also unclear if liability extends beyond when the child turns 21, as Crimo did before the shooting.

State Police Director Brendan Kelly told reporters Wednesday that the father faces potential civil liability, and that there is an ongoing investigation into criminal culpability. He offer no details and said the matter would ultimately be decided in court.

https://www.wtae.com/article/how-the-july-4-parade-shooting-suspect-slipped-through-the-system/40549060#

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8 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

The suspect legally purchased the rifle used in the attack in Illinois within the past year, Covelli said. In all, police said, he purchased five firearms, which were recovered by officers at his father’s home.

The revelation about his gun purchases is just the latest example of y oung men who were able to obtain guns and carry out massacres in recent months despite glaring warning signs about their mental health and inclination to violence…

…..Under Illinois law, gun purchases can be denied to people convicted of felonies, addicted to narcotics or those who are termed “mental defectives” and capable of harming themselves or others. That might have stopped a suicidal Crimo from getting a weapon.

But under the law, just who is a “mental defective” must be decided by “a court, board, commission or other legal authority.”

https://www.lowellsun.com/2022/07/06/parade-shooting-suspect-bought-5-weapons-despite-threats/

Less than three years ago, police went to Crimo’s home following a call from a family member who said he was threatening “to kill everyone” there, according to Christopher Covelli, a spokesman for the Lake County Major Crime Task Force.

Police confiscated 16 knives, a dagger and a sword, but said there was no sign he had any guns at the time, in September 2019. Earlier, in April 2019, police also responded to a reported suicide attempt by Crimo, Covelli said….

…Illinois State Police, the agency that issues gun owners’ licenses, said in a statement that the then-19-year-old Crimo applied for a license in December 2019. Applicants under 21 require a parent or legal guardian to sponsor the application. His father sponsored his.

Sponsors must sign an affidavit that says the sponsor “shall be liable for any damages resulting from the minor applicant’s use of firearms or firearm ammunition.” It includes no specifics on liability and damages if the child commits a crime with a gun. It’s also unclear if liability extends beyond when the child turns 21, as Crimo did before the shooting.

State Police Director Brendan Kelly told reporters Wednesday that the father faces potential civil liability, and that there is an ongoing investigation into criminal culpability. He offer no details and said the matter would ultimately be decided in court.

https://www.wtae.com/article/how-the-july-4-parade-shooting-suspect-slipped-through-the-system/40549060#

So what’s your point do you support these acts of terror?

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2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

So what’s your point do you support these acts of terror?

My point was to share information about the circumstances by which the shooter obtained his guns, Not sure how anyone could come to your conclusion from reading my posts in this thread. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

That’s absolutely terrible, this crap makes sick on so many levels. It reminds me of the civilian casualties in the Middle East, yet it’s even more senseless because in reality these are Americans killing their brothers and sister’s for nothing at all!:cry:

It's completely heartbreaking to me. I can't imagine how those poor families must feel. The 8 yr old's mother was shot in the leg and the foot and should have been hospitalized herself but she told the doctors if they didn't discharge her she would AMA herself out so she could be with her son. She's some type of a superintendent in the elementary school system. Some in other school systems are offering to fill in for her so she can be with her family. The other twin has shrapnel in his body that they can't remove because it would be too dangerous. Only 8 yrs. old. :cry:

The 2 yr old kept looking for his parents to pick him up before police were able to identify who he was and contact his grandparents. All these young children that are being put through things like this. By people who are barely out of childhood themselves.

Edited by susieice
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12 minutes ago, susieice said:

It's completely heartbreaking to me. I can't imagine how those poor families must feel. The 8 yr old's mother was shot in the leg and the foot and should have been hospitalized herself but she told the doctors if they didn't discharge her she would AMA herself out so she could be with her son. She's some type of a superintendent in the elementary school system. Some in other school systems are offering to fill in for her so she can be with her family. The other twin has shrapnel in his body that they can't remove because it would be too dangerous. Only 8 yrs. old. :cry:

The 2 yr old kept looking for his parents to pick him up before police were able to identify who he was and contact his grandparents. All these young children that are being put through things like this. By people who are barely out of childhood themselves.

This totally breaks my heart, and unfortunately it makes my PTSD peg the anxiety meter too! Watching the news about this and thinking about these children rips up my insides, and I have flash backs to the Middle East. I also can't imagine what these parents are feeling, except pain and intense anger because there is no explanation for why!

i just don't know what our country has come too where children can no longer just be kids without fear. Don't know how old you are but I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis clearly, we had to practice duck and cover exercises in grade school. My father unlike most explained the importance of why it was necessary and while I tried to stay strong , I was scared.

So I can only imagine the way kids are feeling today, with events like this occurring all over the country. I never thought I would live to point in American history where again kids had to fear their daily existence, this is so sad and what's worst is there is no end insight!:cry:

Thanks for the thread I really appreciate it Susie, I need to talk about this and not hold it inside and your thread helps me more than you know!:tu:

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6 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

This totally breaks my heart, and unfortunately it makes my PTSD peg the anxiety meter too! Watching the news about this and thinking about these children rips up my insides, and I have flash backs to the Middle East. I also can't imagine what these parents are feeling, except pain and intense anger because there is no explanation for why!

i just don't know what our country has come too where children can no longer just be kids without fear. Don't know how old you are but I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis clearly, we had to practice duck and cover exercises in grade school. My father unlike most explained the importance of why it was necessary and while I tried to stay strong , I was scared.

So I can only imagine the way kids are feeling today, with events like this occurring all over the country. I never thought I would live to point in American history where again kids had to fear their daily existence, this is so sad and what's worst is there is no end insight!:cry:

Thanks for the thread I really appreciate it Susie, I need to talk about this and not hold it inside and your thread helps me more than you know!:tu:

I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis and the air raid drills but my parents didn't really explain them to me. I know children in Philadelphia have been on the news several times saying how afraid they are of all the shootings that happen everyday there. I also know several Vietnam veterans who have told me it was the way the Viet Cong used children to carry explosives that haunt them the most too. It's all just so, so sad. 

When I start these threads, I just try to give the most accurate information that I can. I just don't understand what is wrong with people.

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1 minute ago, susieice said:

I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis and the air raid drills but my parents didn't really explain them to me. I know children in Philadelphia have been on the news several times saying how afraid they are of all the shootings that happen everyday there. I also know several Vietnam veterans who have told me it was the way the Viet Cong used children to carry explosives that haunt them the most too. It's all just so, so sad. 

When I start these threads, I just try to give the most accurate information that I can. I just don't understand what is wrong with people.

I don’t either and all this along with my other experience’s is bewildering at times. See unfortunately I have seen on too many occasions what humans will do to other humans if left unchecked! My concern it that this behavior is starting to take hold in America and if that happens all bets are off.

To me the biggest part of this problem is created by our government, what I mean by that is simple extreme actions need to be taken. Yet the politicians are sitting on their hands afraid to act, there are solutions for every problem yet they just pass this from administration to administration and nothing ever gets done!:angry:

That behavior is no longer acceptable on any level!:(

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The 2 yr old toddler who lost both of his parents does not yet know that they are dead. He thinks they are on a trip. The family is working with mental health professionals to find the right time and way to tell him :cry:

https://abc7ny.com/highland-park-shooting-aiden-mccarthy-kevin-irina/12036162/?ex_cid=TA_WABC_FB&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0Lz_0YeV0_S5FpyZrcqGS1DJEa8aIW6J5oej_tAmu4qOSkpqAScfUKF_4

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On 7/8/2022 at 4:53 AM, Myles said:

Yeah, I know the answer and know that it was only used in a stereotypical and maybe racist way.   Similar to if I used "Leroy" to describe a shooter in an inner city.  

I think you mean "Le'eh-roi". Names aren't to be spelt in that old fashioned manner anymore. :w00t:

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I think you mean "Le'eh-roi". Names aren't to be spelt in that old fashioned manner anymore. :w00t:

Dude your a freaky old fellow so I have a song just for you and since you understand the proper vocabulary you should love this song, I sincerely do!

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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23 hours ago, el midgetron said:

The suspect legally purchased the rifle used in the attack in Illinois within the past year, Covelli said. In all, police said, he purchased five firearms, which were recovered by officers at his father’s home.

The revelation about his gun purchases is just the latest example of y oung men who were able to obtain guns and carry out massacres in recent months despite glaring warning signs about their mental health and inclination to violence…

…..Under Illinois law, gun purchases can be denied to people convicted of felonies, addicted to narcotics or those who are termed “mental defectives” and capable of harming themselves or others. That might have stopped a suicidal Crimo from getting a weapon.

But under the law, just who is a “mental defective” must be decided by “a court, board, commission or other legal authority.”

https://www.lowellsun.com/2022/07/06/parade-shooting-suspect-bought-5-weapons-despite-threats/

Less than three years ago, police went to Crimo’s home following a call from a family member who said he was threatening “to kill everyone” there, according to Christopher Covelli, a spokesman for the Lake County Major Crime Task Force.

Police confiscated 16 knives, a dagger and a sword, but said there was no sign he had any guns at the time, in September 2019. Earlier, in April 2019, police also responded to a reported suicide attempt by Crimo, Covelli said….

…Illinois State Police, the agency that issues gun owners’ licenses, said in a statement that the then-19-year-old Crimo applied for a license in December 2019. Applicants under 21 require a parent or legal guardian to sponsor the application. His father sponsored his.

Sponsors must sign an affidavit that says the sponsor “shall be liable for any damages resulting from the minor applicant’s use of firearms or firearm ammunition.” It includes no specifics on liability and damages if the child commits a crime with a gun. It’s also unclear if liability extends beyond when the child turns 21, as Crimo did before the shooting.

State Police Director Brendan Kelly told reporters Wednesday that the father faces potential civil liability, and that there is an ongoing investigation into criminal culpability. He offer no details and said the matter would ultimately be decided in court.

https://www.wtae.com/article/how-the-july-4-parade-shooting-suspect-slipped-through-the-system/40549060#

There were some clues in this kids life. But... in my experience... a great number of young people go through bad times.

Like was said his guns were bought legally. Nothing in the background check stood out. Same with the AR15s bought for the Buffalo shooter and the recent Texas school shooting. Both bought the rifles legally.

So then how to weed out bad purchasers? Unless very strict legislation is passed... you can't. You'd need to do like the Japanese do and have classes, and mental evaluations every couple years. 

Might come to that eventually, I guess. Take a two day class and evaluation clinic, before you can be issued a gun you bought.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

There were some clues in this kids life. But... in my experience... a great number of young people go through bad times.

Like was said his guns were bought legally. Nothing in the background check stood out. Same with the AR15s bought for the Buffalo shooter and the recent Texas school shooting. Both bought the rifles legally.

So then how to weed out bad purchasers? Unless very strict legislation is passed... you can't. You'd need to do like the Japanese do and have classes, and mental evaluations every couple years. 

Might come to that eventually, I guess. Take a two day class and evaluation clinic, before you can be issued a gun you bought.

Well the bolded above is not really true, because in almost every case when this occurs a friend or family member says I know he's a strange individual or he has been really acting unusual lately or he said something but I didn't take it seriously. Well if a persons friends or parents refuse to take action especially when they know the individual is armed they should be charged for second degree murder for not reporting his behavior or change in behavior before the event occurred.

Its time to make people act responsible since they refuse to do so before hand, this crap needs to stop, no Ifs, ands or buts about it. I also think legislator needs to be changed where security checks are made before a weapons purchase. I think they need to do a mental background check on everyone who owns or try's to purchase a weapon where they must give consent to allow their medical records to be reviewed, if they refuse they lose their weapons or they are not allowed to buy one cut and dry.

Pretty dam simple!

Edited by Manwon Lender
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On 7/7/2022 at 7:14 PM, The Silver Shroud said:

I don't think you are right. Pewresearch says 30% of childrens deaths involve firearms, including suicide and accidental death as well as being deliberately shot.

I was like WOW, so I had to go look this up. Apparently, this applies to those under 18 years of age. And apparently not that many "kids" die each year.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/258934/number-of-firearm-deaths-in-the-united-states-by-age/

Screenshot_20220709-212144_Chrome.thumb.jpg.fd629f76b5dbeaf5b6ac86ba59adacf1.jpg

So, of chilldren age 0 to 4, about 3500 die per year, with 80 by guns (2%). And age 4 to 14 about 5500 die per year. With 400 by guns (7.5%).

So the 30%+ applies to mainly the late teenagers. Gangsters, and sadly, suicides, mainly. 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/child-health.htm

 

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Gun deaths are by far the easiest to prevent- just make it illegal to carry guns in public places. Gun owners should demonstate a reason for having a gun, and should use them in permitted places- hunting or shooting ranges. Guns should be securely stored in a locked case at home and in a car.

Guns should be stored securely and not with the ammo available/loaded. But making it illegal to carry guns will reduce these deaths by an insignificant amount. Those shooting teenagers, are mainly other teenagers. Who shouldn't have a gun at all. And its already illegal for them to do so.

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Car crashes also kill about the same number of people in the U.S. as guns do each year, CDC statistics show. In 2017, firearms killed 39,773 people and traffic deaths killed 38,659; in 2016, firearms killed 38,658 and traffic deaths totaled 38,748.

I'd argue that the odds of being shot vary GREATLY by location. Some areas of specific inner cities have a hundred or more shot every weekend. The far GREATER areas of the US are very unlikely to get shot. 

In the metro area I live in, news of people dying in traffic accidents is very common. But news of someone dying from being shot is very infrequent. 

The national statistics indicate near parity, but actually I'd say it's more of a five, or ten, to one in most areas of the US.

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On 7/7/2022 at 5:09 PM, psyche101 said:

It's a huge number and unacceptable.

One is too many, but we are just looking at the math.  Which number is bigger?  314 or 350,000,000 (8.9e-5%, an extremely small number.  As I said, the MSM hypes the 314 and blows it up out of proportion.  There were almost 800 people shot and killed in Chicago last year.  Where is your compassion for them?  Where is your compassion for the 600k cancer victims?  How ‘bout the 38k that die in car accidents?  Why don’t we confiscate cars because they are deadlier than guns?  We ignore that statistic because cars are useful.  So are guns.  More lives were saved because someone was armed without discharging the weapon.  Self-defense is the cornerstone of liberty.

 

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You're view is why people should not have guns. 

It’s the view you have why we need to be armed.  You’re not an American, you do not understand real liberty.

 

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On 7/7/2022 at 6:05 PM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Because we’re doing a lot to cure cancer and

And?  If we’re doing a lot then how come cancer hasn’t been defeated yet?  The fact that you show more concern for mass shooting victims than real tragedies like cancer and heart disease, shows how phony you are.  Show how you are bought and sold for the narrative of the Left.  This has nothing to do with saving lives.  It has everything to do with power and control.  So I checked the stats, I thought that cancer was number one, but it is heart disease.  Covid comes in at #3.  Of all the deaths recorded (3.5 million – US 2021 numbers) you are more concerned by the 314.  That is insane.  If you focused that same energy in finding a cure for the other diseases, they were be eradicated in only a few years.

 

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you’re “thoughts and prayers” and

My thoughts and prayers are with all 3.5 million that we’ve lost.  Life comes with risks.  We all have expiration dates.

 

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“keep your heads on a swivel” when it comes to being shot.

That’s pretty much with anything.  Just driving down the road, you never know when a drunk will run into you.  It’s prudent to have your head on a swivel.  Be aware of your surroundings.

 

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On 7/7/2022 at 8:14 PM, The Silver Shroud said:

I don't think you are right. Pewresearch says 30% of childrens deaths involve firearms, including suicide and accidental death as well as being deliberately shot.

And I think most of those are suicide.  If it wasn’t by gun, it would be by something else.  Slit wrists, hanging, jumping off a building, etc.  If you remove one form of suicide, it will just be replaced by another.  Mishandling of firearms can be mitigated in better teaching in how to respect and handle a firearm.  There are more accidental deaths from other causes.  Kids are magnets for accidents to happen.  Kids do stupid stuff. 

 

And of those deliberately shot, most of those are in non-mass shooting scenarios.  Which leaves you with that 314 children killed from a mass shooter.  Those that use a gun to shoot others are committing a crime.  That is not the act of a law-abiding citizen.  An armed citizen has the ability to take out a shooter.  Once that is understood by the criminal element, mass shooting scenarios will decline.

 

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This Time article (2019) says cancer and heart disease cause more fatalities than guns, but those diseases are the consequence of aging- they are natural causes.

Heart disease and cancer are by far more deadly than being killed by guns, even more so of children being killed in mass-shooting scenarios.  Aging is a key factor of mortality from heart disease and cancer but not all are from aging.  For example, Leukemia.  And now with this covid vaccine, there are more and more youth dying of heart disease.  Those that die within two weeks of getting their last shot, they list it as a covid death, but it was still myocarditis, etc.  Obituaries now just say “suddenly and unexpectedly”.

 

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Car crashes caused slightly more deaths than shooting. Gun deaths are by far the easiest to prevent- just make it illegal to carry guns in public places.

No, it is not easier.  It would be easier to remove all the cars in this country.  Over 250 million cars to 430 million guns, and that’s just what is estimated.  You can infringe on law abiding citizen’s rights, but the criminal will still have guns and law enforcement can never take away all their guns.  The black market will always be there.  Just the other day Shinzo Abe was assassinated with a homemade firearm.

 

You do realize that a criminal using a gun in commission of a crime is violating the 2A, so why punish the law-abiding citizen?  It would be easier to arm more people in more locations to prevent gun deaths.  Hochul just signed gun legislation in New York increasing the places where carrying a gun is prohibited.  She just created high density kill zones.  And with the history of letting criminals back on the street and defunding the police, more deaths should be expected.  Of course, this legislation will be challenged in court.  Then there are those like Soros that troll the internet finding those on the edge that could be easily encouraged to go on a shooting spree. 

 

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Gun owners should demonstate a reason for having a gun,

That is unconstitutional.  The demonstratable reason is the 2A.  It just says the right to KEEP and BEAR arms.  For defense or pleasure.  It is an absolute right, which carries a responsibility.  That responsibility is to not infringe on another’s rights if at all possible.  That is why we have the courts. 

 

Elites trying to take away our rights are precisely why we have the 2A.  The Founding Fathers knew history and understood human nature.  They knew that an unarmed population is an enslaved population.  That government by its nature is tyrannical.  There is nothing more important than our liberty and freedom.  If we have issues with persons committing crime with guns, then we need to deal with that and mind the importance of our liberty.  It is this government that needs to demonstrate that it has the ability to properly govern such a nation based in liberty.  It has failed, except for a few exceptions.  Both Republican and Democrat need to return to their obligations or fear the wrath of the people.

 

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and should use them in permitted places- hunting or shooting ranges. Guns should be securely stored in a locked case at home and in a car.

A lot of good a gun does when you can’t get to it.  The point of shooting ranges isn’t just for enjoyment, but to become proficient at using the weapons you own.  There are several measures that will keep loaded guns out of the reach of juveniles without having to unload or lock it.  We can begin with having reasonable adults in charge.  Every member of Congress should qualify on the range with an AR and 9mil.  If they can’t qualify, then they can’t vote on gun legislation.

 

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On 7/7/2022 at 8:28 PM, The Silver Shroud said:

I don't quite understand this. Do you mean it is right to be able to shoot a government official occasionally? Or just on special occasions like the Capital insurrection? I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't see how having a gun helps/protects you from the government, unless you do mean it gives you the right to kill officials?

No, I did not say that, but it does depend on what that official is doing.  Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence.  He pulled from the influence of the great writers and thinkers of the Age of Enlightenment.  An excerpt:

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.”

Later, in 1787, in a letter, Jefferson writes:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

The letter in whole can be read here: https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/tree-liberty-quotation.  It is very apropos for today.

That we have gone so long without a rebellion, speaks to the genius of our Constitution.  You view it in the eyes of a European, so I don’t expect you to fully understand.  We have the right to defend ourselves from all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC.  Do you not see enough tyranny in your country?  Does the Yellow Vests of France or the Freedom Convoy in Canada, or even the Dutch Farmer Revolt connect with you?  I feel that this is only going to expand.  Catalonia and Scotland seek independence (on and off).  Or do you think “that’s nothing”.  That subjugation is the rule of law?  As Jefferson mentioned, the people suffer great evils.  They are slow to react to right the wrong.  But at some point, the train of abuses become too long.  A government finally overreaches its authority and the people naturally rebel.  That leaves us only two choices.  Let it carry out to its inevitable end, which never turns out well for the tyrant(s) or do something preemptive to reduce the loss of life.  But I fear that if not the latter and there are no sweeping changes this November, I expect something to trigger a rebellion and soon.  As power hungry the Left is, they will make mistakes (as is currently happening) overreaching their authority as they see their power wane.  They see the recent Supreme Court rulings cutting in on their power and they are taking matters into their own hands with treasonous actions.  If the Right wins, then they need to take measures that this never happens again or rebellion will come after them too.  If you are an official, don’t do something stupid that gets you shot.  Put this country first, ahead of your ideology.  Even better, make the best interests of this country and the people your ideology, then you will be a hero.  The best use of power it to do good by this country, her people, and the Constitution, then when your term is up, just walk away.

 

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On 7/7/2022 at 9:54 PM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

It means that the thought of an armed population would deter the government from going full Fascist.

Or Marxist.  That’s why the Founding Fathers put the 2A in the Bill of Rights.  Without the 2A, the rest could not exist.

 

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Because Billie-Joe and his mates are equal to the armed forces

If I understand the reference, basically you are correct.  The American people have the edge over the military in the long run.  This President wouldn’t think about using nukes against our enemies but he won’t have a second thought about using them on Americans.  That’s the Leftist’s mindset.

 

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(ohh but the armed forces would never turn traitor to the people, they swear to defend the constitution after all, I hear you say. well…

Yes, they swear an oath to the Constitution, not to the President.    What will happen will be that an initial incident will see troops used against the people and it will be devastating, but it will spread to other areas.  Much of the military will see what’s going on (will be in communication with family) and will mutiny.  The woke officers will do everything to prevent that communication.  Some will secure their bases for the people and others will just leave.  What’s left will be consolidated in a defensive ring around DC.  And a siege will begin of DC.  I really hope and pray that doesn’t happen, but if these Marxists keep pushing absurdity, they will be the architect of their own destruction and they will try to take everything down with them.

 

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why do you need the guns again if it’ll never happen?

As soon as you say that it’ll never happen here, it will happen here.  Too many have lost faith in this nation, primarily because of the media and academia subverting the youth to hate this country.  It will be for that reason we will have our own great reset and I don’t think it will be pretty.

 

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Ohh just in case the government goes full Fascist.)

Or Marxist.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

Or Marxist.  That’s why the Founding Fathers put the 2A in the Bill of Rights.  Without the 2A, the rest could not exist.

This is word for word how 2a as it was framed by the founding Fathers and the purpose of giving the American people the right to bear Arms is clearly defined. The main purpose was to keep a standing citizen soldier / military force and this was there actual intent concerning bearing arms the comments below are as framed and ratified in 1791.

Amendment II.]

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. https://oll.libertyfund.org/page/1791-us-bill-of-rights-1st-10-amendments-with-commentary

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

 

 

 

If I understand the reference, basically you are correct.  The American people have the edge over the military in the long run.  This President wouldn’t think about using nukes against our enemies but he won’t have a second thought about using them on Americans.  That’s the Leftist’s mindset.

 

 

 

Yes, they swear an oath to the Constitution, not to the President.    What will happen will be that an initial incident will see troops used against the people and it will be devastating, but it will spread to other areas.  Much of the military will see what’s going on (will be in communication with family) and will mutiny.  The woke officers will do everything to prevent that communication.  Some will secure their bases for the people and others will just leave.  What’s left will be consolidated in a defensive ring around DC.  And a siege will begin of DC.  I really hope and pray that doesn’t happen, but if these Marxists keep pushing absurdity, they will be the architect of their own destruction and they will try to take everything down with them.

 

 

 

As soon as you say that it’ll never happen here, it will happen here.  Too many have lost faith in this nation, primarily because of the media and academia subverting the youth to hate this country.  It will be for that reason we will have our own great reset and I don’t think it will be pretty.

 

 

 

Or Marxist.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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