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Marginalised Muslims cause concern


Talon

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Laws you will obey....give it a break Talon you want to kill every one who breaks the law no matter how trivial rope round the neck come to mind

Wrdan, when you stop lying and start being able to have an adult conversation I'll get back to you.

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Whynot get back to me on this ,you have stated before on many ocasions that the rope is for every one no matter how seroius the ofence

then you change it a full 360 and you tell me you will get back

Why not now

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you have stated before on many ocasions that the rope is for every one no matter how seroius the ofence

Warden, you're talking rubbish tongue.gif Talon and I certainyl are very authoritarian when it comes to crime and punishment...but that doesn't make us Stalinists. We believe in the death penalty, certainly...especially for crimes such as murder, rape, child molestation, burgarly, the trafficing and selling of drugs, and other high end crimes, that result in the direct harming of society.

That doesn't mean every single person who breaks a trivial law is off to the gas chambers tongue.gif

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you have stated before on many ocasions that the rope is for every one no matter how seroius the ofence

Warden, you're talking rubbish tongue.gif Talon and I certainyl are very authoritarian when it comes to crime and punishment...but that doesn't make us Stalinists. We believe in the death penalty, certainly...especially for crimes such as murder, rape, child molestation, burgarly, the trafficing and selling of drugs, and other high end crimes, that result in the direct harming of society.

That doesn't mean every single person who breaks a trivial law is off to the gas chambers tongue.gif

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It never took you long to jump in and do a 360 as well,well i didnt expect any thing different from you two amigos oops will i need a rope for saying that no.gif

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I don't force my beliefs on them, and they don't force their beliefs on me. 

Sure we have debates about religion, world, and current events all the time.  That's healthy.  That's part of growth.

That is precisely the problem with the majority of Muslims, especially in this country, where we have had the murder of Theo van Gogh and subsequently radicals from both sides loudly voicing their opinion, and quite a few extremist cells that have been uncovered since. ph34r.gif

Muslims do NOT let you forget that they consider their religion the only true religion. They wish to be excepted from certain laws, because that is not according to their beliefs. Women insist on wearing their head scarfs even in positions where complete impartiality and neutrality is called for, such as being a judge. We do NOT want the sharia in this country and the judge should reflect impartiality.

Why is it that they do not want to integrate? It is not only the extremists and radicals that do not integrate. People that have lived in a country for 30 years, have taken the nationality of that country and still call themselves Moroccons, Turks, Cape Verdians, speak only the language of and are loyal to that original country?

Excuse me, but I do have a problem with those people. angry.gif

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i agree with your statement as well as that of bathory.(never thought i'd write that)

but he's right, most muslims don't distance themselves from the attacks, and they don't denounce them.

if i was a member of a religion that had a radical faction that went around killing people, i'd denounce it and be out of it, and that would be that.

and demntrix, i saw a 60 minute report last night about the muslims in holland, and dish city, a marganlized community in amsterdam.

they spoke to one of the community leaders, about the van gogh murder, and asked, can't you criticize a religion, after all, catholicism, and others have been ridiculed and criticized over and over, without people from these religions murdering those who spoke out against them. the leader basically said , no.

i found this very scary, if they move to countries where free speach is the cornerstone of the democratic process, then THEY must adapt. if they can't accept criticism, they must leave and go back to the country where not a sour word is spoken of islam.

i am tired of the political corrrectness towards muslims, but they seem to me to be the least tolerant people, and believe their law supercedes every other law.

so why oh why don't the young muslims speak out and change the attitude of their religion, and the perception a lot of us seem to have.

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I agree with this. And the muslim people don't distance themselves because the (gentle) muslim people are afraid to speak up or distance themselves for fear of their violent muslim terrorists (in the population) and what they might do. ph34r.gif

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I don't force my beliefs on them, and they don't force their beliefs on me. 

Sure we have debates about religion, world, and current events all the time.  That's healthy.  That's part of growth.

That is precisely the problem with the majority of Muslims, especially in this country, where we have had the murder of Theo van Gogh and subsequently radicals from both sides loudly voicing their opinion, and quite a few extremist cells that have been uncovered since. ph34r.gif

Muslims do NOT let you forget that they consider their religion the only true religion. They wish to be excepted from certain laws, because that is not according to their beliefs. Women insist on wearing their head scarfs even in positions where complete impartiality and neutrality is called for, such as being a judge. We do NOT want the sharia in this country and the judge should reflect impartiality.

Why is it that they do not want to integrate? It is not only the extremists and radicals that do not integrate. People that have lived in a country for 30 years, have taken the nationality of that country and still call themselves Moroccons, Turks, Cape Verdians, speak only the language of and are loyal to that original country?

Excuse me, but I do have a problem with those people. angry.gif

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i agree with your statement as well as that of bathory.(never thought i'd write that)

but he's right, most muslims don't distance themselves from the attacks, and they don't denounce them.

if i was a member of a religion that had a radical faction that went around killing people, i'd denounce it and be out of it, and that would be that.

and demntrix, i saw a 60 minute report last night about the muslims in holland, and dish city, a marganlized community in amsterdam.

they spoke to one of the community leaders, about the van gogh murder, and asked, can't you criticize a religion, after all, catholicism, and others have been ridiculed and criticized over and over, without people from these religions murdering those who spoke out against them. the leader basically said , no.

i found this very scary, if they move to countries where free speach is the cornerstone of the democratic process, then THEY must adapt. if they can't accept criticism, they must leave and go back to the country where not a sour word is spoken of islam.

i am tired of the political corrrectness towards muslims, but they seem to me to be the least tolerant people, and believe their law supercedes every other law.

so why oh why don't the young muslims speak out and change the attitude of their religion, and the perception a lot of us seem to have.

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I agree with this. And the muslim people don't distance themselves because the (gentle) muslim people are afraid to speak up or distance themselves for fear of their violent muslim terrorists (in the population) and what they might do. ph34r.gif

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That is true as well with the british gov,you mention the muslims in any way and they are on your case like flies to a sh-t angry.gif

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warden..... the last sentence about the British government ...that's amazing! angry.gif Makes you wonder.

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again what rules exactly are u talking about ?

Things like she is not allowed outside without her head being cover.Or she gets stop by the "religiuos police" She not thrilled about it but she wears a scarf anyway.

and when i read articles that (for example in UK) at least 80% of muslims their have experiante at least one brutal racism event , i don't know what to call it but racism ......

and also when law say muslim girls shouldn't wear Hijab , what u call that ?

Adhering to school dress code.What do you call it

but iam totally with u , they shouldn't stay in such countries that don't welcome them ....

Are you  saying she should leave KSA ?? really??

another thing , KSA is not an example of muslims , no arab country is , every arab country rule with France type of rules , even KSA don't rule with islam exactly because they follow Wahabbi and make rules by their selfs , just to make it clear

http://www.saudinf.com/main/c3.htm

try this link

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Edited by kwai
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Whynot get back to me on this ,you have stated before on many ocasions that the rope is for every one no matter how seroius the ofence

then you change it a full 360 and you tell me you will get back

Why not now

I wrote about the rope in cells in case they wanted to do us a favour, I not once said I'd make traffic violations and jaywalking punishable by death.

It never took you long to jump in and do a 360 as well,well i didnt expect any thing different from you two amigos oops will i need a rope for saying that 

360? Rubbish. I'm posting the arguement I always do. Its just happens to be your one of these people who opens his mouth and posts the first thing that comes to mind, then blames others for your own mistakes.

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Go back and check your posts and then tell me who is posting crap tongue.gif

There seems to be a lot of 360 going on lately

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No, your the one making accusations, its up to you go back and get the quotes.

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Guest Lottie
That is true as well with the british gov,you mention the muslims in any way and they are on your case like flies to a sh-t angry.gif

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How do you mean?

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Things like she is not allowed outside without her head being cover.Or she gets stop by the "religiuos police" She not thrilled about it but she wears a scarf anyway.

we were talking about laws in unmuslim countries , but fine i'll answer that ....

first , a general article about woman in islam

http://www.bouti.com/bouti_e_lectures3.htm

then about Hijab ...

u can't say that that islamic laws are wrong unless u have studied islam and other laws , comparing them and knowing the reasons of them ...

Woman and Men share alot of things , mind , political activites , culture ....

then Woman has her own seperated qualities that are different than man , feminim and aspects that make it a shared please between the man and his wife ...

man and woman can get together by one of two 1- based on their minds and scientific and social connection which is neccessary on the development of society 2- based on sexual pleasure ....

what seperats between these 2 cases is hijab ...

if woman showed all her body when particibating in society with man then the natural sexual feelings that God has put in both will take controll , he won't look to the woman the doctor , the scientist , the poet .... he will look to her as woman the pleasure , is there anything worse than that ....

hijab doesn't mean only covering the head , it's about morals ....

Islam was the first ever to give woman all of her rights ....

if u live in UK i can give u address of bookshops that u can have further info about this subject

and who said to u that muslim women don't want to wear Hijab ? in the past few days a muslim girl won a judgemental order against her school in UK to let her wear hijab, and she was very happy about it .....

Adhering to school dress code.What do you call it

u mean about school that have uniforms ?

the thing is , when france say that MUSLIMS shouldn't wear Hijab at school , what u call that ?

what are the laws that forbid that ....

many people fight for their freedom whether it was their right or false one , what make muslims situation any different ....

Are you  saying she should leave KSA ?? really??

another thing , KSA is not an example of muslims , no arab country is , every arab country rule with France type of rules , even KSA don't rule with islam exactly because they follow Wahabbi and make rules by their selfs , just to make it clear

http://www.saudinf.com/main/c3.htm

try this link

i was talking about unmuslim countries ...

and my friend , islam is in two things The Quran and The Sunnah (what the prophet said ) KSA doesn't represent islam , they follow wahabbi that UK put in our world like other organizations to seperate muslims ....

when u speak of what islam say , don't tell me what muslims say ...

yes there are stric muslims but they are rare , like there are stric christians and any other religion in the world ....

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Adhering to school dress code.What do you call it

u mean about school that have uniforms ?

the thing is , when france say that MUSLIMS shouldn't wear Hijab at school , what u call that ?

I call it them telling the muslims they are not a special case as you seem to want to be and obey the laws everyone else does in France. If they don't then the French should just gather them all up and deport them to their families country of origin.

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well you better get on the phone to some of your brit female mates who dont understand plain english, dutch, german, french, when signs are posted all around the swimming area of a hotel, to tell women not to go topless as it is offensive for the muslim waiters waiting on them.

1. Don't call me a brit

2. Why should I phone them up? If you care that much about it do it yourself

3. I honestly couldn't give a stuff if people who choose to come to this county find it offensive. They also found Christmas offensive and thats why he now have Crimbo.

also in countries such as libya and UAE where a lot of brits go for quadrupal (UK) wages to drill for oil, they dont seem to have understood the ban on alcohol, buying it illegally on the black market. 

Then B*tch all you want about it, see if I care, do you see me claiming they have every right to drink?!

tell me, what is your problem with muslims wearing a bit of cloth over their heads?? i think you are making a big deal over something which neednt be. tell me how does wearing the veil insult/offend you?

Because its ILLEGAL! You might as well B*tch that every illegal should just be done anyway because it wont offend some people. What are you, some kinda anarachist?

when i was at school we had a sikh in our class, he was never victimised for wearing a turban, he was a good student and showed no signs that the turban distracted him from learning, nor the other pupils like me

Excuse me, your location does not sau France, hence OF COURSE he was not following French Laws. And what the hell does his grades matter when it comes to people following the law?

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oooooooooooooh touchy touchy, and there was me trying not to be too offensive to you, i wont bother in future. laugh.gif

Don't call me a brit

arhh diddums, why?? you from ireland originally??

Why should I phone them up? If you care that much about it do it yourself

sorry tal, thought you hateddouble standards, obviously i was wrong and you dont give a monkey's laugh.gif

I honestly couldn't give a stuff if people who choose to come to this county find it offensive. They also found Christmas offensive and thats why he now have Crimbo

so dont give a stuff, buttry and get over the crimbo phraise, who's gonna arrest you for saying merry xmas, who's going to stop you for that matter?? wacko.gif

Then B*tch all you want about it, see if I care, do you see me claiming they have every right to drink?!

hmmmm no i dont but i see you claiming muslimswant to be special cases and im just reminding you that your fellow brits can be just the same original.gif

Because its ILLEGAL! You might as well B*tch that every illegal should just be done anyway because it wont offend some people. What are you, some kinda anarachist?

so its illegal, so what, it doesnt make it morally right!!! In Michigan a woman isn't allowed to cut her own hair without her husband's permission. you see there are some really crazy lawsout there which infringe on human rights. i think the veil law infringes on the rights of these women, and if you will comeup with crap like im an anarchist we might aswell just stop it here yes.gif

And what the hell does his grades matter when it comes to people following the law?

im sorry tal, i was anticipating a half intelligant and relevant question you might have asked me regarding the performance of children at school who wear the veil. you see i have watched programs on this topic, and they covered this area, but since you dont give a stuff, i wont bother debating with you you'll be thanking God to hear!! grin2.gif

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Talon is a Brit who lives in Britian who isnt a Brit ....kinda makes you wonder what is comming next

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arhh diddums, why?? you from ireland originally??

Scotland, but Ireland are indeed also a good celtic nation.

Why should I phone them up? If you care that much about it do it yourself

sorry tal, thought you hateddouble standards, obviously i was wrong and you dont give a monkey's

Don't start claiming just because I don't care about your case doesn't mean I don't have morals. As I said, if you care about the issue you do it.

so dont give a stuff, buttry and get over the crimbo phraise, who's gonna arrest you for saying merry xmas, who's going to stop you for that matter?? 

In that case, why don't you just tell the muslims to get over Christmas or headscarfs in schools?

hmmmm no i dont but i see you claiming muslimswant to be special cases and im just reminding you that your fellow brits can be just the same 

Then debate it, don't moan at me

so its illegal, so what, it doesnt make it morally right!!! In Michigan a woman isn't allowed to cut her own hair without her husband's permission. you see there are some really crazy lawsout there which infringe on human rights. i think the veil law infringes on the rights of these women, and if you will comeup with crap like im an anarchist we might aswell just stop it here 

So your arguement is, if you don't beleive in a law, ignore it. How on earth is society function if everyone is breaking laws becausse they don't argue with it. If the US has fascist laws then go to the US and try and change the system.

im sorry tal, i was anticipating a half intelligant and relevant question you might have asked me regarding the performance of children at school who wear the veil. you see i have watched programs on this topic, and they covered this area, but since you dont give a stuff, i wont bother debating with you you'll be thanking God to hear!! 

How mature, rolleyes.gif you insult people's intellegence and don't answer the question. I stick by what I say, people's right to break laws should not be judged by intellegence.

Talon is a Brit who lives in Britian who isnt a Brit ....kinda makes you wonder what is comming next

If it makes you feel better there are millions of us.

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arhh diddums, why?? you from ireland originally??

Scotland, but Ireland are indeed also a good celtic nation.

Why should I phone them up? If you care that much about it do it yourself

sorry tal, thought you hateddouble standards, obviously i was wrong and you dont give a monkey's

Don't start claiming just because I don't care about your case doesn't mean I don't have morals. As I said, if you care about the issue you do it.

so dont give a stuff, buttry and get over the crimbo phraise, who's gonna arrest you for saying merry xmas, who's going to stop you for that matter?? 

In that case, why don't you just tell the muslims to get over Christmas or headscarfs in schools?

hmmmm no i dont but i see you claiming muslimswant to be special cases and im just reminding you that your fellow brits can be just the same 

Then debate it, don't moan at me

so its illegal, so what, it doesnt make it morally right!!! In Michigan a woman isn't allowed to cut her own hair without her husband's permission. you see there are some really crazy lawsout there which infringe on human rights. i think the veil law infringes on the rights of these women, and if you will comeup with crap like im an anarchist we might aswell just stop it here 

So your arguement is, if you don't beleive in a law, ignore it. How on earth is society function if everyone is breaking laws becausse they don't argue with it. If the US has fascist laws then go to the US and try and change the system.

im sorry tal, i was anticipating a half intelligant and relevant question you might have asked me regarding the performance of children at school who wear the veil. you see i have watched programs on this topic, and they covered this area, but since you dont give a stuff, i wont bother debating with you you'll be thanking God to hear!! 

How mature, rolleyes.gif you insult people's intellegence and don't answer the question. I stick by what I say, people's right to break laws should not be judged by intellegence.

Talon is a Brit who lives in Britian who isnt a Brit ....kinda makes you wonder what is comming next

If it makes you feel better there are millions of us.

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You could never make me feel better ,unless i was the one administering you your drugs

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sorry tal, i know its of no significance to you, but i used to respect your views and believe you had morals, i still believe you have morals, just their spread a bit thin lately. never mind, you would rather see the back of muslims who's families have worked here on low wages in factories for generations all for the sake of economic growth, then when their grandchildren wish to practice their religion and learn at the same time, you show them the door. 

Please, when did I once say anything of the sort? How on earth did you associate my argument that all people should follow the countries laws and not expect special treatment to equal deportation of all muslims, or even banning religion?

the abolishment of the law would be across the board and not just to selective students. what i am saying is that regardless of someone's intelligence level, if they are not adversely affected at school by wearing the veil, then surely this should be the only factor involved in whether the law stays or goes.

I'm not interested in debating the issues of the law, I'm inserested in beating the issues of following countries laws. The French have long historic reasons for banning religion in schools, namely the control religion has had over the state for so long.

when did i say ignore it, i say fight it all the way!!! 

If you wish, although are you sure anyone in the US enforces this law about hair cuts? huh.gif

would you get over christmas, pls, for the love of God, im sorry you feel victimized for not being able to say merry xmas in every social circle you're in, but im not about to go around and tell muslims to get over wearing the veil, for one id be talking to deaf ears and another i dont believe as i have said before, that the veil is offensive or distracting in any way. it is a stupid law designed to victimise, but thats just my opinion.

So your arguing that if a law bans part of my own culture in my own country I should just get over it, because its better to ban my culture that offend that of those who have just entered the borders.... ic hmm.gif

your entitled to your opinions as am i, now lets just leave it

Fine whatever, I'm never going to get your either, and if you don't get mine there's no point on discussing it.

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You, regardless of whether the law is stupid or not (I'll personally reserve judgement, simply to avoid being drawn into the arguement). If the muslims, or anyone else, don't like it...then it's their right to vote in someone who'll change it...that's how democracy works.

It is most certainly not their (or anyone else's) right to claim special exemption from this, or any other law, based on their social or religious grouping. That is now fascism works.

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