Biblical inerrancy

[XenoFish]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

I wanted @larryp to answer where he has found it in scripture as he seems to disagree about who the Nephalim were and is the one who claims what he says is in scripture.

His answer would be "smoke and mirrors". Plus a lack of actually presenting what I just did.

[+Desertrat56]

Just now, XenoFish said:

His answer would be "smoke and mirrors". Plus a lack of actually presenting what I just did.

Right, which was my point for him.  I dare you, @larryp, to post the scripture you claim.   

[larryp]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

What book, paragraph, and page?   

It seems like you're the only one in the dark. Do a quick google search or ask Xofish. Why should I fool around with you on something too simple?

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, larryp said:

It seems like you're the only one in the dark. Do a quick google search or ask Xofish. Why should I fool around with you on something too simple?

No, you said it was in scripture, someone else disagreed with you and provided a link, where is your version, what scripture are you using?   This isn't about me not looking something up, this is about you not providing what you claim is in scripture that others disagree with who I know have read scripture.   

[eight bits]

1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

True.  It can identify a bunch of candidates, but cannot choose among them.

Nor establish that there is any choice to be made among them, in the sense that this one and not any of the others contributed something of itself to the composition of the specific version of a story you've haphazardly chosen, to the reception of that version or any of its antecedents, or to the transmission of that story (or bundle of stories).

When it comes to "Which flood, if any?," you're out of your depth, as are we all.

ETA: @danydandan Where ya been? All's well, I hope. Still giving the Pope a hard time, I see. God's work.

Edited July 8, 2022 by eight bits

[XenoFish]

30 minutes ago, larryp said:

Why should I fool around with you on something too simple?

Because the question was posed to you, not I. Which goes to show that you can't or are not willing to do what others ask. Even the simpliest of things. It took me less that 5 seconds to find what I was looking for. 

[cormac mac airt]

2 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

for Shurrupak (Fara) a deposit of clay and sand of about 60 cm. thickness over an “ordinary patch of charcoal and ashes” above the Jamdat Nasr level and below the Early Dynastic: it is dated to c. 2850 B.C. AS these levels are dated c. 3000 B.C. and c. 2850 respectively,

For Ur the table records flood deposits from 3·72 to 0·72 metres thick in c. 3500 B.C. at the end of the ‘Ubaid period (the text records greater depths) and deposits of unknown depth dated to c. 2700 B.C.

Raikes quoting Mallowan

Suggests three different floods (3500 BC, 2850 BC and 2700 BC).  Probably a fourth one about 2350 BC.

Doug

And not counting the youngest what did I say earlier? That research would best be served within the 2600 - 3000 BC period which is where 2/3 of the above dates reside. Even Woolley’s estimates don’t support a 6080 BP conclusion. 
 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

1 hour ago, larryp said:

It seems like you're the only one in the dark. Do a quick google search or ask Xofish. Why should I fool around with you on something too simple?

XenoFish already presented the Biblical reference, which DOESN’T say what you claim it does. 
 

cormac

Edited July 8, 2022 by cormac mac airt

[Doug1066]

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

Nor establish that there is any choice to be made among them, in the sense that this one and not any of the others contributed something of itself to the composition of the specific version of a story you've haphazardly chosen, to the reception of that version or any of its antecedents, or to the transmission of that story (or bundle of stories).

When it comes to "Which flood, if any?," you're out of your depth, as are we all.

I'm trying to list the candidates.  After that, we'll see.  Somehow I'm going to have to match 14C and OSE dates with the subjective opinions of archeologists.  If I can find reliable dates for the flood layers at Ur and Shuruppak, I'll have the date of the flood mentioned by Atrahasis.

BTW:  "The springs of the deep" sounds like water flowing through caves.  The Zagros Mountains have karst topography that debouches into the Tigris.

As you can see, I'm putting a lot more faith into the hard sciences than I am into old legends.

At this point, I'm inclined to think the science isn't quite up to the job - yet.

Doug

Edited July 8, 2022 by Doug1066

[cormac mac airt]

13 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

I'm trying to list the candidates.  After that, we'll see.  Somehow I'm going to have to match 14C and OSE dates with the subjective opinions of archeologists.  If I can find reliable dates for the flood layers at Ur and Shuruppak, I'll have the date of the flood mentioned by Atrahasis.

BTW:  "The springs of the deep" sounds like water flowing through caves.  The Zagros Mountains have karst topography that debouches into the Tigris.

As you can see, I'm putting a lot more faith into the hard sciences than I am into old legends.

At this point, I'm inclined to think the science isn't quite up to the job - yet.

Doug

For springs of the deep you might want to look into underground aquifers if any exist in the T-E plain or delta. 
 

cormac

Edited July 8, 2022 by cormac mac airt

[Doug1066]

17 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

For springs of the deep you might want to look into underground aquifers if any exist in the T-E plain or delta. 
 

cormac

I'll check.  Gravel lenses often channel water from higher elevations.  The alluvial fans around the perimeter of the plain should be full of them.

I am reading Gilgamesh.  Summary of Tablet i:  Gilgamesh was a great man.  Meorite of Anu?

A brief google search for "Meteorite of Anu" turned up nothing.

Doug

[cormac mac airt]

5 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

I'll check.  Gravel lenses often channel water from higher elevations.  The alluvial fans around the perimeter of the plain should be full of them.

I am reading Gilgamesh.  Summary of Tablet i:  Gilgamesh was a great man.  Meorite of Anu?

A brief google search for "Meteorite of Anu" turned up nothing.

Doug

From what I gather Meteorites of Anu were considered omens from the gods. 
 

cormac

[Doug1066]

36 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

From what I gather Meteorites of Anu were considered omens from the gods. 
 

cormac

That's sort of what I figured.  Just was wondering if there might be a few chunks lying around somewhere.

Doug

[cormac mac airt]

23 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

That's sort of what I figured.  Just was wondering if there might be a few chunks lying around somewhere.

Doug

Not that I’m aware of and the existence of  meteorites didn’t seem to be much of a big deal beyond being an omen. 
 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

I’ve seen several references to carbon 14 dating of Mesopotamian flood layers but nothing as to who, when or where such were performed. Am wondering if these were assumed and not actually performed? 
 

cormac

[Abramelin]

On 7/6/2022 at 12:37 AM, cormac mac airt said:

Other errors in the Bible: 

The Commandment “Thou shall not kill” was mistranslated, it originally was written “Thou shall not MURDER. There’s a huge distinction between the two. 

Just to confirm:

https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/biblical-history/files/bible_ten_short.png

[Abramelin]

On 7/6/2022 at 1:39 AM, Guyver said:

That seems so barbaric and primitive to me.  It seems to me that THE Supreme Being would not suffer from the same problems of ego that we do.  Such a being of perfection would have no need to show pride, ego, or hatred the way people do, since such a being would already be morally superior to us in every way.

It just shows the God from the Bible in an invention made by humans.

[Doug1066]

11 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Not that I’m aware of and the existence of  meteorites didn’t seem to be much of a big deal beyond being an omen. 
 

cormac

We need a strat column for archeological sites:  Is the Jemdet Nasr culture the same as the al-Ubaid culture and the Early Dynastic the same as the Uruk culture?

If yes, then the flood layer at Shuruppak is the same as the one at Ur.  If no, they were from different floods. 

 

Seems that the Jemdet Nasr culture developed out of the Uruk culture.  The two are NOT contemporaneous.  Those flood layers are from two different floods occurring sometime before 3100 BC.  The Shuruppak flood is more recent than the Ur flood.  By about 400 years?

Doug

P.S.:  I have found nothing at all to support Masse's and Abbott's contention that The Flood was the result of an asteroid strike occurring in 2806 BC.  That's why I was wondering about the Meteorite of Anu.  It might support their hypothesis.  They also claimed that the Storegga tsunami was the result of an impact, so I'm starting to get a little suspicious of their claims.

Doug

Edited July 9, 2022 by Doug1066

[cormac mac airt]

47 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

We need a strat column for archeological sites:  Is the Jemdet Nasr culture the same as the al-Ubaid culture and the Early Dynastic the same as the Uruk culture?

If yes, then the flood layer at Shuruppak is the same as the one at Ur.  If no, they were from different floods. 

 

Seems that the Jemdet Nasr culture developed out of the Uruk culture.  The two are NOT contemporaneous.  Those flood layers are from two different floods occurring sometime before 3100 BC.  The Shuruppak flood is more recent than the Ur flood.  By about 400 years?

Doug

P.S.:  I have found nothing at all to support Masse's and Abbott's contention that The Flood was the result of an asteroid strike occurring in 2806 BC.  That's why I was wondering about the Meteorite of Anu.  It might support their hypothesis.  They also claimed that the Storegga tsunami was the result of an impact, so I'm starting to get a little suspicious of their claims.

Doug

Burckle Crater is a non-starter as it’s completely hypothetical. The site has NEVER been confirmed let alone radiocarbon dated. 
 

cormac

[Doug1066]

13 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Burckle Crater is a non-starter as it’s completely hypothetical. The site has NEVER been confirmed let alone radiocarbon dated. 
 

cormac

It's there, but is it 5000 years old, or 5 million years old?  Until we have an age on it, we can pretty much forget it.  I suspect it's quite old as the rim has been deformed by geologic processes.  Also, those flood layers show no evidence of tsunamis.

Doug

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Doug1066 said:

It's there, but is it 5000 years old, or 5 million years old?  Until we have an age on it, we can pretty much forget it.  I suspect it's quite old as the rim has been deformed by geologic processes.  Also, those flood layers show no evidence of tsunamis.

Doug

There's just as much evidence that the so-called Burckle Crater may be the result of hydrothermal venting as there is for a hypothetical impactor. 

cormac

[danydandan]

21 hours ago, eight bits said:

ETA: @danydandan Where ya been? All's well, I hope. Still giving the Pope a hard time, I see. God's work.

No-where special; just lurking really. Have not been compelled to comment on anything in a while. All is very well, thanks.

[Doug1066]

3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

There's just as much evidence that the so-called Burckle Crater may be the result of hydrothermal venting as there is for a hypothetical impactor. 

cormac

Occupation of Kish began in the Jemdet Nasr period.  All three Kish floods came after the Ur flood.  That confirms there were at least four floods.  Still looking for good dates on them.

Doug

[Piney]

On 7/7/2022 at 9:33 PM, Doug1066 said:

The Bible consists of a series of vignettes that ether provably happened, or are at least, plausible.  But they are arranged in ways that tell a story that frequently didn't happen.  That's the Old Testament.  It was a fairly scholarly work for its day.  The New Testament, on the other hand, is an urban legend written in the second century.  It contains a few historical references - like the boar's head statue on Temple Mount, referred to as "an abomination in a high place," but for the most part even when it's telling the truth, the timing is way off.

Doug

The Exodus never happened. The Jews developed in-situ the the hills of Canaan. Solomon was a petty warlord who controlled some copper pit mines and the Maccabee Rebellion was Jew against Jew. Not Jews against the Ptolemaic Empire.

And that's what Isreali archeology says.

[Abramelin]

On 7/8/2022 at 12:49 PM, XenoFish said:

You can't even get that right.

The nephilim were human+angel hybrids. It wasn't wicked spirits. God's own angels did that. 

Great, so Jesus was also one of the Nephilim? You know, daddy being an angel called Gabriel?