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Biblical inerrancy


Doug1066
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15 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I would recommend a read up on non-duality and why its impossible to explain.

To begin with non-duality is when nothing exists relative to anything else. That isn`t the same as non-existence of anything, it means everything is unified into one. God is this state of oneness. Of course we can only know things relative to other things.

How can you describe a state of oneness with words? Its impossible. Our language is structured in such a way that it has arisen in a reality where things are relative to each other. Good is relative to evil, justice is relative to getting wronged, mercy is relative to damnation. None of them can possibly explain anything about God as God does not have relative properties but is oneness.

So the challenge for the Bible (and all religions) is in having to skirt around non-duality while trying to hint at or indirectly point towards what it is. Hence the only sentence correct in the Bible is the opening one. And not the King James version, but we have to correctly translate the oldest Hebrew versions. Everything else in the Bible does not explain oneness, but skirts around it, trying to hint at it.

That's kind of deep, but yes.

Doug

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One  errant  I’ve noticed is how many loaves of bread it took to feed  the Multitude …one gospel says five..and another says seven.    (If I remember right…anyway,,,the number of loaves varies)   ….hmmm looks like there may have been two different multitudes fed?   I got curious..and found this:

  1. DIFFERENT NUMBERS OF LOAVES. The 5,000 were fed using five loaves and two fishes (Matthew 14:17; Mark 6:38; Luke 9:16; John 6:9) but the 4,000 had “seven loaves and a few little fishes” (Matthew 15:34; Mark 8:5-7).
  2.        https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.org/2020/03/28/feeding-the-4000-feeding-the-5000/

     

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28 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You know how you feel about Atlantis, yeah, Lucifer is my mind thorn.

That mistranslation and late additive to the whole Christian thing is right next to Atlantis in my book. 

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Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth….God makes everything, then go down to verse 26. “

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over [g]all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that [h]moves on the earth.”

So, God made man in his image and gave him dominion over all the earth or Earth as we know it……and that we have dominion over the Earth is clear….from a certain viewpoint.  That is, if we forget the fact that “Mother Nature” could kill us all in an instant- almost.  Anyway, to continue.

Matthew 22 “

18 But Jesus [d]perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites? 19 Show Me the tax money.”

So they brought Him a denarius.

20 And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?”

21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”

And He said to them, “Render[e] therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”22 When they had heard these words, they marveled, and left Him and went their way.

Who’s image?  Caesar’s.  So, God looks like a man?  It’s the same word in both OT and NT.  So, unless someone can show variance between the word found in Genesis, and the other in Matthew, the image means physical appearance.

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1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

Other errors in the Bible: 

The Commandment “Thou shall not kill” was mistranslated, it originally was written “Thou shall not MURDER. There’s a huge distinction between the two. 
 

Also, the word “Hell” exists nowhere in the original Bible as neither the word nor the place it describes existed in Judeo-Christian belief 2000 years ago. Words translated as same since then were Hades, Sheol, Tartarus and Gehenna none of which are the same as what is understood by the word “Hell”. 
 

cormac

I followed him in

To Gehennas of sin.

I sat where the sirens sit.

By the light of the Pole

For the sake of his soul

I struggled with the powers of the Pit.

--Robert Service, The North has Got Him

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1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

All of which is exacerbated by the fact that NONE of the Christian groups in the earliest centuries AD had access to what is currently called “The Bible” as the books within were written in multiple timeframes, in multiple locations by multiple writers with various educational levels. The one thing that CAN be said about it is that no part of it is inerrant. 
 

cormac

The original Bible (Genesis through 2nd Kings) was written during or shortly after the Babylonian Captivity.  All else is add-on.

Dou

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27 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I've been around since the cat god sharted the universe into existence. 

All Hail Bubastis!

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You guys have made my point better than I ever thought of.  Mind if I quote you?

Doug

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18 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth….God makes everything, then go down to verse 26. “

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over [g]all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that [h]moves on the earth.”

So, God made man in his image and gave him dominion over all the earth or Earth as we know it……and that we have dominion over the Earth is clear….from a certain viewpoint.  That is, if we forget the fact that “Mother Nature” could kill us all in an instant- almost.  Anyway, to continue.

Matthew 22 “

18 But Jesus [d]perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites? 19 Show Me the tax money.”

So they brought Him a denarius.

20 And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?”

21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”

And He said to them, “Render[e] therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”22 When they had heard these words, they marveled, and left Him and went their way.

Who’s image?  Caesar’s.  So, God looks like a man?  It’s the same word in both OT and NT.  So, unless someone can show variance between the word found in Genesis, and the other in Matthew, the image means physical appearance.

You skipped over the first inconsistency. 
 

First: Let US make man in OUR image

then

Second: So God created man in HIS own image

cormac

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7 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

You guys have made my point better than I ever thought of.  Mind if I quote you?

Doug

Be my guest. 
 

cormac

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This one’s for Doug.  I can demonstrate that the Bible was wrong about the end of the world.  Now, I will try to be as brief as possible.  So, Jesus told his disciples that he would return for them after ascending to his father, and that they would not have reached all the cities in Israel before he returned.  So, the apostles believed that the end was near and they were to go preach the gospel, heal the sick, raise the dead, you know, do all the things that Jesus did, then they would be received into glory and sit on thrones in heaven around Jesus.  It would take too long to prove all of that, so I hope you take my word for it.  Anyway, that the Apostles did in fact believe the world was coming to an immediate end can be proven through the writings of several Apostles, Paul among them.

Oh dear, I just realized the hole I stepped in.  To prove these points will take hours of research.  Anyway, the Apostle Paul and the Writer of Hebrews (thought to be Paul) as well as other Apostles did believe that the end was near and it had to do with the Abomination of Desolation as spoken by the prophet Daniel.  What that means, is that Gods enemy, the Devil or Satan, in the form of the Antichrist, will defile the temple in Jerusalem and destroy the Jewish religion and proclaiming himself as God.  I know that sounds crazy, but it’s all right from the Bible.  I know it would be good form to prove all of that with verses, and if anyone request it of me, I will do it.  
 

But let’s get to the Apostle John who is believed to have written a gospel, several epistles and the Book of Revelation aka The Apocalypse of John.  It claims that the Antichrist defiles the temple and brings upon the Earth the Tribulation Period, which basically kills everything, and then ends in the complete melting, or dissolving of this universe as described in the Epistles of St. Peter.  Anyway, here’s my proof that the Bible was wrong about the end of the world.

Revelation 1 “1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must [a]shortly take place. 

1 John

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Deceptions of the Last Hour

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[d] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Bold = my emphasis to prove the point.  John said it was the last hour of the last day 2000 years ago.  No Bible math solves this problem.  If you use David and Peters 1,000 years = a day (which is just terrible exegesis BTW) then according to 1,000 = 24 hours, 1,000 / 24 = 41.67 years.  Therefore, if the Revelation were written in 90-110 CE as believed, the world had that plus 41 and 2/3 years to live.  Which means that the entire world would have been destroyed by 150 AD/CE.

 

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5 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

You guys have made my point better than I ever thought of.  Mind if I quote you?

Doug

Here's one for you. Jesus's bio in Matthew and Luke are complete fiction wrapped around a wisdom book. The current theories are they are either Jesus's teachings or Essene ones.

Personally I think it was a Greco-Buddhist wisdom book spread by the Therapeutae.

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21 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

The original Bible (Genesis through 2nd Kings) was written during or shortly after the Babylonian Captivity.  All else is add-on.

Dou

Deuteronomy was probably layed out by King Josiah. 

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1 minute ago, Piney said:

Here's one for you. Jesus's bio in Matthew and Luke are complete fiction wrapped around a wisdom book. The current theories are they are either Jesus's teachings or Essene ones.

Personally I think it was a Greco-Buddhist wisdom book spread by the Therapeutae.

Let's not get too deeply into my opinions here or I won't have any friends left at all.

The Gospels were the last four books written (except maybe Acts).  All date from the second century.  The whole Jesus thing is a second-century urban myth.

If you want to go into more detail, we can, but I'm still working on inerrancy.

Doug

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Just now, Piney said:

Deuteronomy was probably layed out by King Josiah. 

It tells of Moses death and burial, so it likely wasn't Moses who wrote it.

Doug

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5 minutes ago, Piney said:

Here's one for you. Jesus's bio in Matthew and Luke are complete fiction wrapped around a wisdom book. The current theories are they are either Jesus's teachings or Essene ones.

Personally I think it was a Greco-Buddhist wisdom book spread by the Therapeutae.

You might be right Piney, in a round about way, as Jesus Ben Pandira has been speculated as the leader of the Essenes. 
 

cormac

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12 minutes ago, Guyver said:

This one’s for Doug.  I can demonstrate that the Bible was wrong about the end of the world.  Now, I will try to be as brief as possible.  So, Jesus told his disciples that he would return for them after ascending to his father, and that they would not have reached all the cities in Israel before he returned.  So, the apostles believed that the end was near and they were to go preach the gospel, heal the sick, raise the dead, you know, do all the things that Jesus did, then they would be received into glory and sit on thrones in heaven around Jesus.  It would take too long to prove all of that, so I hope you take my word for it.  Anyway, that the Apostles did in fact believe the world was coming to an immediate end can be proven through the writings of several Apostles, Paul among them.

Oh dear, I just realized the hole I stepped in.  To prove these points will take hours of research.  Anyway, the Apostle Paul and the Writer of Hebrews (thought to be Paul) as well as other Apostles did believe that the end was near and it had to do with the Abomination of Desolation as spoken by the prophet Daniel.  What that means, is that Gods enemy, the Devil or Satan, in the form of the Antichrist, will defile the temple in Jerusalem and destroy the Jewish religion and proclaiming himself as God.  I know that sounds crazy, but it’s all right from the Bible.  I know it would be good form to prove all of that with verses, and if anyone request it of me, I will do it.  
 

But let’s get to the Apostle John who is believed to have written a gospel, several epistles and the Book of Revelation aka The Apocalypse of John.  It claims that the Antichrist defiles the temple and brings upon the Earth the Tribulation Period, which basically kills everything, and then ends in the complete melting, or dissolving of this universe as described in the Epistles of St. Peter.  Anyway, here’s my proof that the Bible was wrong about the end of the world.

Revelation 1 “1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must [a]shortly take place. 

1 John

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Deceptions of the Last Hour

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[d] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Bold = my emphasis to prove the point.  John said it was the last hour of the last day 2000 years ago.  No Bible math solves this problem.  If you use David and Peters 1,000 years = a day (which is just terrible exegesis BTW) then according to 1,000 = 24 hours, 1,000 / 24 = 41.67 years.  Therefore, if the Revelation were written in 90-110 CE as believed, the world had that plus 41 and 2/3 years to live.  Which means that the entire world would have been destroyed by 150 AD/CE.

 

Pretty close.  The Romans built a temple to Zeus on Temple Mount and placed a statue of the legion's totem in front of it:  a boar's head.  This is remembered in both Mark and Matthew as an abomination in a high place.  This happened about 131 AD and the Bar Kochba Rebellion was defeated by Rome within a few years.

Luke wasn't written until the late 130s or early 140s, in time for Marcion to quote it in his version of the Bible (or was Luke quoting Marcion?).  Justin the Martyr writing in 155 had never heard of the gospels.  In wasn't until 180 that Ireneaus mentioned the four gospels.  One would think that if the gospels existed before 180, somebody would have mentioned them.

So it still looks like an urban legend, second-century style.

Doug

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31 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

You might be right Piney, in a round about way, as Jesus Ben Pandira has been speculated as the leader of the Essenes. 
 

cormac

And all that Greek thought could be considered "sorcery" by the traditional priesthood.

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If I may be permitted, you don’t know the nature of the beast y’all just unleashed.  Pun intended.

On the question of Moral Inerrancy of the Bible, I could, and just may throw down.  But for now, may I address a truly fundamental question?  That is, Regarding the Nature of God.  So, in the New Testament, God is a God of Love.  In fact, the Epistles of John state that God is love.  Jesus, like the Beatles, kinda said “All you need is Love.” And the Apostle Paul wrote an entire chapter in the Bible on love, and he explained exactly what it was.

1 John 4:8 - “He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

1 Corinthians 13 - “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not [b]puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, [c]thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails. “

Beaufiful right?  God is love, love never fails.  Here’s one small problem.  This God they are describing here is the same one of the Jews that Jesus believed in…ie…the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  The problem is that this means the God of the Old Testament, the same one that required death by stoning for sins, circumcision, and the slaughter of bulls, sheep and goats among other things like the owning of slaves, the subjugation of women, and genocide.  
 

So, here’s my question, if God is love and love cannot be provoked, does not envy, thinks no evil, etc., then how is it that the Bible says God does these things in the OT?  It is an extreme contradiction.  The Bible says God is perfect and at the same time it claims that he does the very same imperfect things that imperfect men do.  In fact, I could go one step further.  The Book of Galatians cites the “works of the flesh” and exactly what they are, and Ephesians says if you do these you can’t go to heaven.  They are sins.  Yet, in this list of sins done in the body of a man in the NT, the God of the OT did those things.

Galatians 5 - “19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: [d]adultery, [e]fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” 
 

But, in the OT, God not only claims that he is jealous, but that he is angry as well and has tremendous outbursts of wrath. Ezekiel 38 “18 

“And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. 19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: ‘Surely in that day there shall be a great [e]earthquake in the land of Israel, 20 so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.’ 21 I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains,” says the Lord God. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.” 

 

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I’m just going to say this because I need to get it off my chest.  Let’s just say that God is real.  Do you really think that a “Loving God” or “God of Love” would or could need to go off on people with a bloody temper tantrum?  I mean what kind of bloody tyrant are Bible writers afraid of?  Answer = Human Kind.  Primitive fears of conquest and domination right there and I’ll be glad to tell you why.

The real God, if it exists, doesn’t need to go off.  It could just hit pause and do whatever the eff it wanted.  I rest my case.

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13 minutes ago, Guyver said:

The real God, if it exists, doesn’t need to go off. 

 

Of course the real God exists. And it doesn't go off because it doesn't need to. It just sits back and waits and allows its children to go off in the hope they'll learn through the experience what a waste of time it is to not be in control of themselves.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Not really, as there are tonnes of stuff in the Bible about not worshipping other Gods, cases in point Moloch, Ba’al and Dagon.

Right. When “going to church” means going to ritual orgies and all manner of sexual shenanigans, it’s going to be very popular with the population.

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1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

You guys have made my point better than I ever thought of.  Mind if I quote you?

Doug

Quote on, wear it to church, post it on your walls, whatever works.

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2 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

The original Bible (Genesis through 2nd Kings) was written during or shortly after the Babylonian Captivity.  All else is add-on.

Dou

Pretty sure this is correct.

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