Biblical inerrancy

[Piney]

18 minutes ago, larryp said:

If he never existed, how could he have written the books? Your rational needs work, pal.

There's proof that he wrote them?

You need to provide a outside source for that.

[cormac mac airt]

19 minutes ago, larryp said:

If he never existed, how could he have written the books? Your rational needs work, pal.

He didn’t. Duh! 
 

cormac

[Piney]

10 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I case you are referring to my username, "Abra Melin" is short for "Abraham Melin" with "Melin" being Coptic for something like 'protector' or 'guardian'.

"Abramelin" was supposedly an Egyptian magician.

Like Khasdiel......before the Catholic Church made him into a angel.

[larryp]

5 hours ago, newbloodmoon said:

So what’s the game Larry. Watching you pull smoke and mirrors out your buttocks, because you’ve been doing that the entire thread.

And you're curious, that's why you return. Good boy!!

[larryp]

51 minutes ago, Piney said:

His brethren were Vikings and they believed no such thing considering they beat Columbus here.

You miss the entire point, which is typical of you.

[Abramelin]

5 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Every ancient sailor with a working brain would have known the earth was round.

Edited to add:

Round as in spherical.

Let me explain:

A couple of ships set out on a voyage. A storm develops and the main sail of one of the ships tears apart. While the sailors on this ship are repairing the sail, they see the other ship nearing the horizon, and seemingly SINK. Then the sail is repaired and they continue their journey. The storm has settled somewhat, and the ship that 'sank' deliberately slows its speed to let the damaged ship catch up. For that latter ship it may look as though the undamaged ship magically reemerges from the ocean.

Sailors from all times must have witnessed this countless times, and the only possible explanation would of course be that the earth is a sphere.

[Piney]

29 minutes ago, larryp said:

You miss the entire point, which is typical of you.

The point was you recited a American 19th Century myth as fact.

 

[larryp]

^^^

I'm not saying it was a fact, but it was the thought during the Columbus era. You should pay attention to the point.

Edited August 13, 2022 by larryp

[larryp]

2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

The Canaanites ACTUALLY CALL YAHWEH a “son of El”. Willful ignorance doesn’t help you a bit. 

cormac

Then who is the father of El?

[Abramelin]

7 minutes ago, larryp said:

Then who is the father of El?

Who were the "Elohim"?

[Abramelin]

16 minutes ago, larryp said:

^^^

I'm not saying it was a fact, but it was the thought during the Columbus era. You should pay attention to the point.

And who are you addressing?

[cormac mac airt]

8 minutes ago, larryp said:

Then who is the father of El?

In Canaanite religion PREDATING the merger of El and Yahweh El was the Creator and NOT Yahweh. 
 

cormac

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Let me explain:

A couple of ships set out on a voyage. A storm develops and the main sail of one of the ships tears apart. While the sailors on this ship are repairing the sail, they see the other ship nearing the horizon, and seemingly SINK. Then the sail is repaired and they continue their journey. The storm has settled somewhat, and the ship that 'sank' deliberately slows its speed to let the damaged ship catch up. For that latter ship it may look as though the undamaged ship magically reemerges from the ocean.

Sailors from all times must have witnessed this countless times, and the only possible explanation would of course be that the earth is a sphere.

And a landlubber, like Moshe and his pals were, would NOT have known about that.

@larryp

Your quotes prove nothing to the contrary.

 

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, larryp said:

Then who is the father of the creator?

Just as God (Yahweh) is considered the sole pre-existing Creator of the Universe NOW amongst Abrahamic religions El was considered the Creator of the Universe before He was merged with Yahweh and the merged deity under Yahweh’s name took over that role. 
 

cormac

[+Hammerclaw]

The concept of God as the universal creator arose only after the fall of Jerusalem and Babylonian exile.

When God Was Not So Great: What Yahweh’s First Appearance in History Tells Us About Early Judaism - Archaeology - Haaretz.com

[Alchopwn]

11 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I have a friend who was the youngest of 8 children and she was very smart.  When her family fought or argued they used bible verses so she memorized the bible in order to defend herself in an argument.   It makes me laugh to think about how people could argue that way.

Yeah, it seems funny now, but putting my historian hat on, the history of how people interpreted the Bible was actually really important in the 19th Century, and not necessarily only in the USA.  Back then people were super-literate as anyone who has listened to the letters from the period on Ken Burns' American Civil War documentary would know (My goodness they wrote well back then).  What I am trying to get to is that this newly literate population were looking to the Bible for inspiration as to how to live "the good life", and in the Bible they found passages about looking after the underdogs, ideas of equality (we are all one in Christ is the quote they used), and other progressive social ideas, and they translated these ideas into trying to build a better, more prosperous and just society.  Now we may look back on that era with a jaded perspective given the absurdist policies the Left have devolved into due to adopting identity politics, or the vicious Old Testament version of Christianity preached by the Right, but back then people looked to the Bible with a grounding in moral philosophy, admittedly cherry picking only the "good things", but the Bible played a genuinely formative role in the formation of most if not all progressive movements of that era, many of which we are still heir to.  While I am an atheist, I do wonder if perhaps the USA needs to use the Bible as a common language of politics and progress, as it is something both the Left and the Right can still value and find some sense of social consensus in.  Of course as an atheist, and despite knowing the Bible very well indeed, this also makes me uncomfortable as the Bible is an intensely irrational document.  What do other people think?  I raise this idea more as a point of discussion than because I really think I am correct or have a point to make, in fact I suspect (and perhaps even hope) I am wrong.

[SHaYap]

Burn the Magic books, then burn the magicians next... 

Quote

The book burning at Ephesus is an incident recorded in the Book of Acts in which Christian converts at Ephesus, influenced by Saint Paul, burned their books of magic. Acts 19 records how "a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki

Book burning at Ephesus - Wikipedia

 

 

 

~

 

[jmccr8]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:43 PM, larryp said:

YHWH

There's no discrepancy, jmccr. The Dead Sea Scrolls were found in 1947, but the papyrus paper it was written on dates back over two thousand years. So, in other words, the Scrolls date back to the Roman Empire.

Hi Larry

Hell was not a word used in the dead sea scrolls nor did it describe the same place as described in a previous post. Hell  was from a different culture that used it as a description in the conversion process and adaptation of Christianity as it made it easier for people to relate to. Many saints in the Roman Catholic church were never Christians and simply added in for acceptance the same with rights and rituals like Christmas.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00131857.2019.1675470

he word ‘Hell’ is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word hellia (derived from the Old English, Old Norse, Old High German, hel, helle, circa. 725 AD) that is used in the King James version of the Bible to capture the Jewish concept of ‘Gehanna’ as the final destination of the wicked. The word occurs a number of times in different verses as the ‘Valley of Hinnom’, a garbage dump outside Jerusalem where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch¹ and the bodies of those who died in sin were thrown on the garbage fires. The valley was accursed and certain sins such as adultery, idolatry, pride, mockery, hypocrisy, and anger, led to the abode of the damned. ‘Gehenna’ originates from the Ancient Greek and Ancient Hebrew that takes the form of the Greek ‘Geenna’ which is found in the New Testament, a phonetic transcription of the Aramaic Gēhannā. The concept is also found in the Old Testament and the Talmud figuring as a place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.

 

[cormac mac airt]

48 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

Yeah, it seems funny now, but putting my historian hat on, the history of how people interpreted the Bible was actually really important in the 19th Century, and not necessarily only in the USA.  Back then people were super-literate as anyone who has listened to the letters from the period on Ken Burns' American Civil War documentary would know (My goodness they wrote well back then).  What I am trying to get to is that this newly literate population were looking to the Bible for inspiration as to how to live "the good life", and in the Bible they found passages about looking after the underdogs, ideas of equality (we are all one in Christ is the quote they used), and other progressive social ideas, and they translated these ideas into trying to build a better, more prosperous and just society.  Now we may look back on that era with a jaded perspective given the absurdist policies the Left have devolved into due to adopting identity politics, or the vicious Old Testament version of Christianity preached by the Right, but back then people looked to the Bible with a grounding in moral philosophy, admittedly cherry picking only the "good things", but the Bible played a genuinely formative role in the formation of most if not all progressive movements of that era, many of which we are still heir to.  While I am an atheist, I do wonder if perhaps the USA needs to use the Bible as a common language of politics and progress, as it is something both the Left and the Right can still value and find some sense of social consensus in.  Of course as an atheist, and despite knowing the Bible very well indeed, this also makes me uncomfortable as the Bible is an intensely irrational document.  What do other people think?  I raise this idea more as a point of discussion than because I really think I am correct or have a point to make, in fact I suspect (and perhaps even hope) I am wrong.

I would say no for two reasons:  1)  It goes against the idea of “separation of church and state” and 2)  Many/possibly most of our Founding Fathers were Deists and NOT Christian. 
 

cormac

[Piney]

18 hours ago, larryp said:

^^^it was the thought during the Columbus era. You should pay attention to the point.

No it wasn't. 

It was a historical lie promoted in 19th Century America.

 

[lightly]

  One negative consequence I see in people loosing their religions and their gods , is that they/we seem to be loosing our sense of Morality along with it.?  Sort of throwing the baby out with the bath water?      ‘God is dead.. morality is just a concept…there is no right or wrong, (not really).     Screw really,        Love One Another.           

[cormac mac airt]

4 minutes ago, lightly said:

  One negative consequence I see in people loosing their religions and their gods , is that they/we seem to be loosing our sense of Morality along with it.?  Sort of throwing the baby out with the bath water?      ‘God is dead.. morality is just a concept…there is no right or wrong, (not really).     Screw really,        Love One Another.           

Yeah, for some the only real morality is predicated on their belief that someone, ie. God, is watching. Without their God they’re no different than animals in a zoo. 
 

cormac

[Abramelin]

16 minutes ago, lightly said:

  One negative consequence I see in people loosing their religions and their gods , is that they/we seem to be loosing our sense of Morality along with it.?  Sort of throwing the baby out with the bath water?      ‘God is dead.. morality is just a concept…there is no right or wrong, (not really).     Screw really,        Love One Another.           

And then you read the Old Testament, and you'll feel alright again.

[Abramelin]

14 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Larry

Hell was not a word used in the dead sea scrolls nor did it describe the same place as described in a previous post. Hell  was from a different culture that used it as a description in the conversion process and adaptation of Christianity as it made it easier for people to relate to. Many saints in the Roman Catholic church were never Christians and simply added in for acceptance the same with rights and rituals like Christmas.

I know the etymology of the Germanic word "hell" or "hel".

But the ancient missionaries most probably adopted that word from the pantheon of the people of Northern Europe:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(mythological_being)

[lightly]

Thanks cormac and Abramelin,    I just don’t know!