Biblical inerrancy

[SHaYap]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Yes, the Kingdom of Heaven is spread out upon the face of the Earth, but men do not see it. Well, out of the mouths of babes and sucklings, thou hast perfected praise. Finally, you show so promise, young Padawan.

A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down... 

TAO TE CHING

506 B.C.E.

 Lao Tzu

Written more than two thousand years ago, the Tao Te Ching is one of the true classics of spiritual literature. It is a guide to cultivating a life of peace, serenity, and compassion. Through aphorisms and parable, it leads readers toward the Tao, or the “Way”: harmony with the life force of the universe. (This version was translated/interpreted by Stephen Mitchell in 1988.)

...

Quote

Can you coax your mind from its wandering
and keep to the original oneness?
Can you let your body become
supple as a newborn child's?
Can you cleanse your inner vision
until you see nothing but the light?
Can you love people and lead them
without imposing your will?
Can you deal with the most vital matters
by letting events take their course?
Can you step back from you own mind
and thus understand all things?

Giving birth and nourishing,
having without possessing,
acting with no expectations,
leading and not trying to control:
this is the supreme virtue.

...

Lao Tzu 

Tao Te Ching - Chapter 10

...

https://www.organism.earth/library/document/tao-te-ching

~

Don't go trying to swallow the ocean now...

~

 

[+Hammerclaw]

2 hours ago, SHaYap said:

A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down... 

TAO TE CHING

506 B.C.E.

 Lao Tzu

Written more than two thousand years ago, the Tao Te Ching is one of the true classics of spiritual literature. It is a guide to cultivating a life of peace, serenity, and compassion. Through aphorisms and parable, it leads readers toward the Tao, or the “Way”: harmony with the life force of the universe. (This version was translated/interpreted by Stephen Mitchell in 1988.)

...

~

Don't go trying to swallow the ocean now...

~

 

For me that ship has already sailed. I but tarry on the shoreline now, casting bread upon the waters. I had a father to teach me wisdom and a grandfather to teach me manners, a preacher to teach me the Faith of my people and a mother and grandmother how to comport myself concerning the fairer sex. The years of one's life are blank pages upon which one writes the lessons learned while living it. Behold with what large letters I write! 

[+Desertrat56]

On 9/18/2022 at 3:23 AM, eight bits said:

Oookay. The name of this place is unexplained mysteries, and this has been on your mind for a while, so let's see whether we can sort this out. (By we I mean the community; I am not claiming that I can figure this out.)

First, I assume we are talking about the LDS temple in Albuquerque. A temple is a specific kind of LDS worship site (open only to accredited LDS members after its dedication, closed on Sundays, used only for specific rites and practices, ...) with its own conventions regarding appropriate decoration, and different conventions for different spaces within the temple.

Now, I believe you located this statue in a past post as being in or near an interior fountain (not the exterior fountain on that site). Is it possible that you are referring to something connected with the baptismal font (a water vessel big enough to submerge one or more adult humans, probably supported by a dozen ox statues and housed in its own room)?

Finally for now, why do you conclude the statue depicted Mithras? (For example, the tour guide said so, or there was an inscription, or characteristic Mithraic emblems like a "Phrygian" cap and posed as killing a bull or, as would be somewhat meaningful for LDS, shaking hands with another figure.)

Obviously any details you remember are potentially useful.

Yes, I forgot it is called a temple.   When it was first built in the late 90's they gave tours and my friend and I decided to go.   It was, of course, a recruiting oppotunity for the most part.   Before we were allowed to go in we had to watch a recruiting film.  We were allowed only into the building's  main lobby, which had a huge fountain by a staircase with mithras in the fountain, and a few rooms downstairs. The fountain did not look like a baptismal, it was big but not big enough to accomodate a batism for an adult and there was no easy way to climb in to it.  Do mormons do batism?  The statue seemed to be almost the size of an actual bull and man.  

I only know, because my cousin joined the religion when she was in her 30's, that you have to go through training and you have to wear some 'holy' underwear.   It made no sense to me.  I think she joined because of our mormon relatives from my mother's uncle, who died the year I was born and they are very nice people. She needed support of family because of having a child and needing to get clean, but being an addict she would not trust any close relatives.    

I have never met a mormon who was not polite and pleasant, but I am not interested in religion so I never asked them any questions.  I did find out that asking questions from mormons will give you different answers based on whether one was raised in that religion or joined as an adult when the spring crop of mormon recruiters came knocking on the door decades ago.

I thought it was mithras because it was a man and a bull.  I googled statues of mithras and none that came up match the one in the temple.

This link is not what is in the temple in Albuquerque.  I don't think it was an ox, it was a bull.   And the symbolism of 12 oxen representing the 12 tribes explanation in this link seems to me to make it all nice when, in fact, it seems less than that to me.   Oxen are used to work, they are not treated well so the symbolism might be completely different than our modern day wishes.  But then, I only see religion as a way to control large numbers of people so of course I would interpret the symbols differently.

https://purposeinchrist.com/bull-statues-mormon-temple/

  

Edited September 19, 2022 by Desertrat56

[SHaYap]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

For me that ship has already sailed. I but tarry on the shoreline now, casting bread upon the waters.

As long as you can tarry, there's still time to catch the tides. Just don't ignore the typhoons and hurricanes... 

~

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

I had a father to teach me wisdom and a grandfather to teach me manners, a preacher to teach me the Faith of my people and a mother and grandmother how to comport myself concerning the fairer sex. The years of one's life are blank pages upon which one writes the lessons learned while living it.

Live and learn, and learn... 

As good ol ' Confucius said,

"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest."

Best with a cup of tea or coffee... 

~

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Behold with what large letters I write! 

Word... Or Logos, if you're into Greek, but never neglect ethos 

~

 

[+Hammerclaw]

22 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

s good ol ' Confucius said,

"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest."

Best with a cup of tea or coffee... 

~

We learn by doing.

[SHaYap]

5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

We learn by doing.

How do you do wisdom? 

Wisely replies "Fine thanks, You carry on and go on ahead ..."

~

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by SHaYap
Punchline

[eight bits]

5 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

This link is not what is in the temple in Albuquerque.  I don't think it was an ox, it was a bull.   And the symbolism of 12 oxen representing the 12 tribes explanation in this link seems to me to make it all nice when, in fact, it seems less than that to me.   Oxen are used to work, they are not treated well so the symbolism might be completely different than our modern day wishes.  But then, I only see religion as a way to control large numbers of people so of course I would interpret the symbols differently.

Thanks for the additional information. My guess is that the statue you saw was depicting Elijah's sacrifice of a bull from 1 Kings 18:22 ff. Since the story was that he was able to burn his offering despite his altar having been thoroughly doused with water, it would make sense to place such a statue in a fountain.

The animal Elijah sacrificed was a bull, while the animals at the foot of the baptismal fonts are oxen. I did want to eliminate the baptismal space as the location before trying to guess.

Quote

I have never met a mormon who was not polite and pleasant, but I am not interested in religion so I never asked them any questions.  I did find out that asking questions from mormons will give you different answers based on whether one was raised in that religion or joined as an adult when the spring crop of mormon recruiters came knocking on the door decades ago.

That may be because LDS is a "continuing revelation" faith, which opens the door for long-time members to have learned and absorbed now-obsolete doctrine while growing up in the faith, while short-timers know only the up-to-date doctrine. There are also what I'd call "shadow doctrines," teachings which have deep historical roots but which today are not emphasized or are interpreted in a softer language, like receiving one's own planet after death (made famous by the musical Book of Mormon's "I believe" number) or the notion that Jesus was born of the literal carnal union of Mary and Elohim.

Anyway, try the Elijah theory on for size and see how you like it.

 

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Thanks for the additional information. My guess is that the statue you saw was depicting Elijah's sacrifice of a bull from 1 Kings 18:22 ff. Since the story was that he was able to burn his offering despite his altar having been thoroughly doused with water, it would make sense to place such a statue in a fountain.

The animal Elijah sacrificed was a bull, while the animals at the foot of the baptismal fonts are oxen. I did want to eliminate the baptismal space as the location before trying to guess.

That may be because LDS is a "continuing revelation" faith, which opens the door for long-time members to have learned and absorbed now-obsolete doctrine while growing up in the faith, while short-timers know only the up-to-date doctrine. There are also what I'd call "shadow doctrines," teachings which have deep historical roots but which today are not emphasized or are interpreted in a softer language, like receiving one's own planet after death (made famous by the musical Book of Mormon's "I believe" number) or the notion that Jesus was born of the literal carnal union of Mary and Elohim.

Anyway, try the Elijah theory on for size and see how you like it.

 

Yes, the elijah story makes sense.   It was a long time ago and I suspect the tourists would not have been allowed to see the baptismal or that that would have been in the lobby anyway.

[+joc]

19 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Wisdom consists of facts that survive the crucible of time, unchanged.

 

All an old person is, is a young person who got old. You know you're old when you stop looking forward to life and find yourself, more and more, looking back.

Are you old?  

[lightly]

7 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

We learn by doing.

 Very true..I’ve learned a lot by doing ..with positive ,and negative, results   . .we also learn by watching and listening ? I think I have learned more that way. ?

[+Hammerclaw]

5 hours ago, joc said:

Are you old?  

Well on my way.

[+Hammerclaw]

7 hours ago, lightly said:

 Very true..I’ve learned a lot by doing ..with positive ,and negative, results   . .we also learn by watching and listening ? I think I have learned more that way. ?

Depends. Watching and listening didn't do me much good in Driver's Ed. as I recall. I learned to operate a motor vehicle by driving. 

[+Hammerclaw]

15 hours ago, SHaYap said:

How do you do wisdom? 

Wisely replies "Fine thanks, You carry on and go on ahead ..."

~

 

 

 

Quietly and with humility. The so-called wise who proclaim themselves such, loudly, always act the fool.

[SHaYap]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Quietly and with humility. The so-called wise who proclaim themselves such, loudly, always act the fool.

Oh but what an act, Dionysus quietly loud and proud 

~

 

 

[Opus Magnus]

I am a fan of the Tao Teh Ching. The similarities are apparent between the Gospel of Jesus and the Tao Teh Ching. The way of water, and without a heart of water it is impossible to receive Jesus Christ.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, SHaYap said:

Oh but what an act, Dionysus quietly loud and proud 

~

 

 

I prefer Ek Chuaj, myself and the duality of his nature.

[SHaYap]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

I prefer Ek Chuaj, myself and the duality of his nature.

Hot diggidy chocolatè...

Olé !

~

[+Hammerclaw]

7 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

Hot diggidy chocolatè...

Olé !

~

That would be Ek Chuah. I prefer Acan, myself, as I prefer alcohol to chocolate.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Hammerclaw

[SHaYap]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

That would be Ek Chuah. I prefer Acan, myself, as I prefer alcohol to chocolate.

Well, half the sacrament is better than none... 

~

 

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, SHaYap said:

Well, half the sacrament is better than none... 

~

 

Yi-Di has the bases covered for you.

[SHaYap]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Yi-Di has the bases covered for you.

A little trivia... Yi Di is a word pun , "one drop"

Quote

Maayot

https://www.maayot.com › blog › c...

Chinese Puns - Maayot

 

What are puns? A pun is a type of jokes that exploits a different possible meaning of a word; in short, puns are homophonic jokes.

~

Do you get it?

 

~

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

A little trivia... Yi Di is a word pun , "one drop"

~

Do you get it?

 

~

I got lost when he went to shoo-shoo and the hogs eat'em up.

[SHaYap]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

I got lost when he went to shoo-shoo and the hogs eat'em up.

You went poo poo instead of Foo Foo

~

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

You went poo poo instead of Foo Foo

~

Just give me duck's feet with my bird's nest soup.

[SHaYap]

23 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Just give me duck's feet with my bird's nest soup.

Literally, Buddha leap over the wall... 

Quote

[00.10:55]

...

In context, Buddha's Temptation 

The history behind the recipe, the ingredients were chosen specifically not only because of its market value, there are many more choices that are equally if not more in terms of cost. 

The "dish" was specifically designed not only to titillate the taste buds, but also because the ingredients are notoriously difficult to handle with chop sticks, it is a test of one's temerity, decorum and conduct in the face of the highest level of formal State functions at the banquet table. 

It is not usually available on the menu at eateries or restaurants. 

And On that note, my dinner is now ready... 

~

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by SHaYap
Tummy rumble