“Some private provision in the NHS” will continue under Labour, Starmer says.

[L.A.T.1961]

Reality is a tough taskmaster.  But don't expect an apology for slating the Tories on this  

 Keir Starmer has said “there is some private provision in the NHS and we’re likely to have to continue with that” when asked whether he stands by the pledge made during the 2020 Labour leadership election to “end outsourcing in our NHS”.

Starmer made ten pledges in his bid to become leader. One stated that “public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders,” and that he would “end outsourcing in our NHS” among other services.

Following the interview, left-wing group Momentum tweeted “this is deeply disturbing, damaging and unpopular”

https://labourlist.org/2022/07/some-private-provision-in-the-nhs-will-continue-under-labour-starmer-says/

[Saru]

What assurances do we have that the Conservative's won't try to further privatize the NHS ?

Many Tory MPs have investments in firms which directly profit from private health care and the government has a track record of voting down provisions designed to protect the NHS in international trade deals.

Labour, meanwhile, hasn't been in power for over a decade.

[ethereal_scout]

There's a potential problem - much of the NHS is already 'privatized' so I'm at a loss to understand how they'll achieve anything further.

 

What I mean is - the following (non-exhaustable list) - are already purchased privately.

1) Plasters

2) Bandages

3) Equipment

4) Utilities (electricty/gas/telephone services)

5) Buildings (PFI) 

6) Vehicles 

7) Agency workers

 

What I'm saying is - if the budget of a Trust is £100M - (making a number up) only half of that is 'public' rather than 'private'. All the above mentioned items are bought of the free market.

[L.A.T.1961]

24 minutes ago, Saru said:

What assurances do we have that the Conservative's won't try to further privatize the NHS ?

 

We don't, although history might suggest its unlikely in the near term.

Any mass privatization recently would have been jumped on by the press. 

What we do know is whatever the situation when Sir Keir arrives he will keep it. 

So how bad can it actually be.  

[Saru]

4 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

What we do know is whatever the situation when Sir Keir arrives he will keep it. 

The article you've linked to does not appear to support this assertion.

[L.A.T.1961]

Just now, Saru said:

The article you've linked to does not appear to support this assertion.

He was not asked that specific question but as things stand he would go with what was already in place when arriving in Gov.

He is setting a precedent of not renationalizing NHS services. 

There is no comments by Tories they will extend privatization so no indication the situation will have changed. 

[Saru]

8 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

He was not asked that specific question but as things stand he would go with what was already in place when arriving in Gov.

He is setting a precedent of not renationalizing NHS services. 

I very much doubt Boris Johnson's successor intends to renationalize NHS services either.

The only reason this has even been brought up is because of what Starmer said prior to becoming Labour leader, however he said it before the coronavirus pandemic, so it would be fair to say that the situation has changed rather a lot since then.

[Silver]

Is it you @L.A.T.1961, or another Brexiter who keeps complaining of poor service from GPs? Part of the reason may be because it is already being sold off to the US. I'm too old to care, really, but our children will suffer when it is gone:

A dispute about the takeover of one of the UK’s biggest GP practice operators by the US healthcare giant Centene Corporation has reached the high court, in a case that could overturn approval for a deal condemned by campaigners as “privatisation by stealth” of the NHS.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/01/us-healthcare-giants-takeover-of-uk-gp-practices-lands-in-high-court

Edited July 16, 2022 by The Silver Shroud

[Silver]

8 hours ago, Saru said:

I very much doubt Boris Johnson's successor intends to renationalize NHS services either.

The only reason this has even been brought up is because of what Starmer said prior to becoming Labour leader, however he said it before the coronavirus pandemic, so it would be fair to say that the situation has changed rather a lot since then.

Starmer is not stupid, and he is trying to tread a careful path that will enable him to change things for the better. He may not succeed, and unfortunately he is not charismatic. He is alienating support by not being more honest about the damage Brexit, culture wars and populism is doing, but he is biding his time.

[L.A.T.1961]

12 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

Is it you @L.A.T.1961, or another Brexiter who keeps complaining of poor service from GPs? Part of the reason may be because it is already being sold off to the US. I'm too old to care, really, but our children will suffer when it is gone:

A dispute about the takeover of one of the UK’s biggest GP practice operators by the US healthcare giant Centene Corporation has reached the high court, in a case that could overturn approval for a deal condemned by campaigners as “privatisation by stealth” of the NHS.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/01/us-healthcare-giants-takeover-of-uk-gp-practices-lands-in-high-court

There are two different things going on here, one is the running of the NHS, the costs, and could it be done better.

Then the point I raised which is the attitude of some front line staff members working in the NHS.

I was pointing out that in my experience not all staff operates at a reasonable level of efficiency. 

[L.A.T.1961]

21 hours ago, Saru said:

 so it would be fair to say that the situation has changed rather a lot since then.

It has, but he also showed an apparent acceptance of private health care when standing for labour leader.

When he employed Ben Nunn who has worked as a lobbyist for the private healthcare sector.

 "LABOUR leadership contender Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of refusing to answer a question from the public about his employment of a private healthcare lobbyist.

The question about whether he would still be able to defend the NHS was put forward by a young woman from the floor during an election meeting in Manchester on Saturday.

It referred to the hiring of Ben Nunn, who has worked as a lobbyist for the private healthcare sector.

The young woman branded Mr Starmer’s hiring of a private healthcare lobbyists “continuity Blairism.”

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/b/starmer-dodges-question-over-employing-hiring-private-healthcare-lobbyist

 

So his private views, even then, might have been considerably different to his public comments.  But I don't suppose this comes as a shock to any of us given all politicians spin their comments and the truth to win browny points with the public. 

Its just the idea that Starmer is straight and others not that's at odds with reality. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by L.A.T.1961

[Saru]

14 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Its just the idea that Starmer is straight and others not that's at odds with reality. 

All politicians lie and twist the truth to suit their goals, but some politicians are exponentially worse than others.

[L.A.T.1961]

3 minutes ago, Saru said:

All politicians lie and twist the truth to suit their goals, but some politicians are exponentially worse than others.

I think once you get on that merry-go-round then there is no difference, trust is lost.

Grading levels of deceit, how one political action is viewed by some compared to others, is a fruitless task. 

[Saru]

6 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

I think once you get on that merry-go-round then there is no difference, trust is lost.

Grading levels of deceit, how one political action is viewed by some compared to others, is a fruitless task. 

I doubt anyone would argue that Keir Starmer is even in the same ballpark as Boris Johnson and his cronies when it comes to dishonesty.

Claiming that there is no distinction in that regard is disingenuous.

[L.A.T.1961]

1 minute ago, Saru said:

I doubt anyone would argue that Keir Starmer is even in the same ballpark as Boris Johnson and his cronies when it comes to dishonesty.

Claiming that all politicians are the same in that regard is disingenuous.

One reason there's no evidence against Starmer is the minimum interest in his activities by the press and media.

So knowing how they compare is obscured by a lack of facts. 

But as this story shows their are also skeletons in his back bedroom. 

 

 

[Saru]

2 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

One reason there's no evidence against Starmer is the minimum interest in his activities by the press and media.

You mean like Beergate ? The Daily Mail ran nothing else for two weeks - it was absolutely desperate to find something - anything - to smear him with.

8 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

But as this story shows their are also skeletons in his back bedroom. 

A "skeleton in the closet" is defined as:

A shameful secret that could seriously harm a person’s reputation if people discovered it.

There is absolutely nothing remotely like that mentioned or even hinted at in the article you posted.

[L.A.T.1961]

19 minutes ago, Saru said:

You mean like Beergate ? The Daily Mail ran nothing else for two weeks - it was absolutely desperate to find something - anything - to smear him with.

A "skeleton in the closet" is defined as:

A shameful secret that could seriously harm a person’s reputation if people discovered it.

There is absolutely nothing remotely like that mentioned or even hinted at in the article you posted.

I think a Starmer's u turn counts as seriously harming a person’s reputation, as the Labour party have made the NHS into such a totemic issue.

And his real thoughts on this have only now become public after years of saying something else. 

Even if he uses the argument of new circumstances after covid, if he really believes that the NHS works better when entirely nationalised, the money saved and better treatment would justify the reorganisation.

As well as the voter support from previously wobbly labour support in the north.

 

 

 

[Silver]

2 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

I think once you get on that merry-go-round then there is no difference, trust is lost.

Grading levels of deceit, how one political action is viewed by some compared to others, is a fruitless task. 

They are all as bad as each other.

Partygate- laws broken, 126 fines issued.

Beergate- no laws broken.

Yeah.

[Saru]

35 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

I think a Starmer's u turn counts as seriously harming a person’s reputation, as the Labour party have made the NHS into such a totemic issue.

It's likely to have some political ramifications, but I doubt we'll hear too much about it, to be honest.

Again, though, it's not a "skeleton in the closet" if he's speaking about it on national radio.