Should Trump be Prosecuted?

[Doug1066]

This thread is to address the issue of whether Donald Trump should face prosecution and prison time for his crimes.  The J6 hearings pretty thoroughly demonstrate that he broke numerous laws; he is guilty as sin.  But even so, putting him in prison may harm the country more than letting him roam free.  What should we do?

Edited July 20, 2022 by Doug1066

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

At best he’ll face trial for incitement. And the prosecutor will have the devil’s own time convincing a jury that he intended anything violent to happen.

[the13bats]

The way you word it feels a bit pigeon holing to me.

No matter what tRump simply will never be "behind bars" so the opitions roam free or locked up doesnt really wash with me.

contrary to what some of his worshippers believe trump isnt a marmalaid god hes a man an incompetent bumbling failable human who should be responsible for his crimes.

If and thats a qualifying "if" he is found guilty of crimes then its a middle finger, c*** a snook, insult to the country and its people for him not to be punished.

Harm to the country would be a guilty man rips the system and more faith is lost. The real question is how do you punish a guy like him, tell him no more sex trade workers , mcfish, or spray tan, no more golf?

I have no clue.

 

 

 

[the13bats]

16 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

At best he’ll face trial for incitement. And the prosecutor will have the devil’s own time convincing a jury that he intended anything violent to happen.

Lets hope they dont bring in pence as a witness. ( against trump not desiring violence )

[Agent0range]

Some people will say no...those people will post videos of Maxine Waters "inciting violence."

[+Link of Hyrule]

1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

The J6 hearings pretty thoroughly demonstrate that he broke numerous laws; he is guilty as sin.

The hearings did no such thing. As the thread is built on a faulty premise, I don't think I can rightfully answer. Trump is innocent, so the question is extremely simple to answer - he should not face any charges because you don't charge innocent people with crimes!

Edit: with that said,  if he is guilty,  he should be charged and convicted.  Even a president shouldn't get away with that sort of thing!

[spartan max2]

Eh probably. But seeing how the secret service only handed over one text message, and deleted the rest, I doubt it

[Doug1066]

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

I don't think I can rightfully answer.

Then don't answer.

It seems from the hearings that Trump is guilty as sin and that waiting for the trial is only a necessary formality.  We are assuming here that he has already been found guilty.  So now that we have him, what do we do with him?  What course of action would be best for the country?

Doug

[Opus Magnus]

There is no reason to send Trump to prison. All we need is to enact section 3 of the 14th Ammendment of the Constitution. The desire is to prevent Trump from being president again. After he is prevented he can go merry on with his life.

Also, we should get this on the Democrats that were arrested yesterday for their rebellion against the Supreme Court.

Quote

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Opus Magnus

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

This thread is to address the issue of whether Donald Trump should face prosecution and prison time for his crimes.  The J6 hearings pretty thoroughly demonstrate that he broke numerous laws; he is guilty as sin.  But even so, putting him in prison may harm the country more than letting him roam free.  What should we do?

The findings of the Jan 6th - Committee have certainly uncovered proof of the following by first hand witness testimony:

1. Members of the President Trumps inner circle had communication with Right-Wing Extremist Group’s prior to and during the January 6, 2021 Insurrection that took place at the United States Capital with the former Presidents knowledge!

2.  The lives of Vice President Mike Pence along with his wife and their Daughter were put in jeopardy by a inappropriate rally that President Trump ordered. Further more do to explicit hate speech by members of the Trump Administration and the format President himself during the rally near the Capital it has been now been proven by Witness Testimony that this was designed for the intended purpose of stopping the electrical vote certification that was at that time underway in the United States Capital.

3.  According to first hand Witness testimony all members of the inner circle of the Trump Administration, including the former President were directly involved in a preplanned attempt to switch fraudulently certified State Electoral Ballots in an attempt to:

  3a. Preplanned ( based upon irst hand witness testimony) attempt to change the Electoral ballot count designed to declare President Trump as re-elected President of the United States, by creating confusion which was designed to come from three designated locations.

  3b. The first was from angry protesters who were going to storm the Capital during the ballot certification, which did occur.

  3c.  Next the ‘President himself planned to be present when this occurred, why it’s anyones guess! However I suspect and so did’ the  witnesses that President Trump still expected his personal plan of disrupting or over throwing the Electoral Vote certification to be carried out by Vice President Mike Pence.

   4c.  When the Presidential Motorcade left the location of the President Rally. President Trump was informed that he would not be taken to meet his based on the Capital lawn. Immediately after being informed of this the President lost all composure and entered a psychotic fugue state, where he attempted to grab the steering wheel from the rear of his vehicle where his secret service detachment had to intervene to prevent him from causing accident. The Presidents next actions while still in this psychotic fugue state were to physically attempt to attack the secret service agent who stopped him from grabbing the steering wheel. ( in my opinion the Secret Service Agent Should Have Pimp Slapped Trump and knock his Dam ass out  )This is hilarious because President Trumpf tried to grab the agent by his throat.  Well needless to say his attempt was stopped by the Agent who had every right to physically subdued the President at that time in any manner necessary. However, the President was lucky because the agent even during this psychotic episode maintained his cool and professionally dealt with the mentally fragile President!

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection: 

§2383. Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States: 

§2384. Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

 

§2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.:

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Manwon Lender

[the13bats]

17 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Then don't answer.

It seems from the hearings that Trump is guilty as sin and that waiting for the trial is only a necessary formality.  We are assuming here that he has already been found guilty.  So now that we have him, what do we do with him?  What course of action would be best for the country?

Doug

You had to kind of figure that a certain type of marmalade messiah worshipper would support their god with ridiculous comments like trump is innocent.

So let me ask do you think tRump is at all concerned?

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

There is no reason to send Trump to prison. All we need is to enact section 3 of the 14th Ammendment of the Constitution. The desire is to prevent Trump from being president again. After he is prevented he can go merry on with his life.

Also, we should get this on the Democrats that were arrested yesterday for their rebellion against the Supreme Court.

 

I actually agree with you and certainly support your idea, I don’t think he needs to to prison either, but most likely for a different reason than you have. I would not under any circumstances what to submit any correctional officer to his whining sniveling cry baby ass, Tharp would ve unfairly treatment. But I would add to your comments above that he should be stripped of his American Citizenship, and forced to leave the United States and never under any circumstances be allowed to return! That is how a Seditious Treasonous Traitor should be treated, because if he is allowed to stay, his seditious behavior will continue behind the scenes and he will fund extremely right - wing organizations like the Proud Boy and to continue to push hus extreme Right form of Nationalism!

JIMHO

[the13bats]

18 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The findings of the Jan 6th - Committee have certainly uncovered proof of the following by first hand witness testimony:

1. Members of the President Trumps inner circle had communication with Right-Wing Extremist Group’s prior to and during the January 6, 2021 Insurrection that took place at the United States Capital with the former Presidents knowledge!

2.  The lives of Vice President Mike Pence along with his wife and their Daughter were put in jeopardy by a inappropriate rally that President Trump ordered. Further more do to explicit hate speech by members of the Trump Administration and the format President himself during the rally near the Capital it has been now been proven by Witness Testimony that this was designed for the intended purpose of stopping the electrical vote certification that was at that time underway in the United States Capital.

3.  According to first hand Witness testimony all members of the inner circle of the Trump Administration, including the former President were directly involved in a preplanned attempt to switch fraudulently certified State Electoral Ballots in an attempt to:

  3a. Preplanned ( based upon irst hand witness testimony) attempt to change the Electoral ballot count designed to declare President Trump as re-elected President of the United States, by creating confusion which was designed to come from three designated locations.

  3b. The first was from angry protesters who were going to storm the Capital during the ballot certification, which did occur.

  3c.  Next the ‘President himself planned to be present when this occurred, why it’s anyones guess! However I suspect and so did’ the  witnesses that President Trump still expected his personal plan of disrupting or over throwing the Electoral Vote certification to be carried out by Vice President Mike Pence.

   4c.  When the Presidential Motorcade left the location of the President Rally. President Trump was informed that he would not be taken to meet his based on the Capital lawn. Immediately after being informed of this the President lost all composure and entered a psychotic fugue state, where he attempted to grab the steering wheel from the rear of his vehicle where his secret service detachment had to intervene to prevent him from causing accident. The Presidents next actions while still in this psychotic fugue state were to physically attempt to attack the secret service agent who stopped him from grabbing the steering wheel.This is hilarious because President Trumpf tried to grab the agent by his throat.  Well needless to say his attempt was stopped by the Agent who had every right to physically subdued the President at that time in any manner necessary. However, the President was lucky because the agent even during this psychotic episode maintained his cool and professionally dealt with the mentally fragile President!

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection: 

§2383. Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States: 

§2384. Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

 

§2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.:

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim

 

 

Its beyond my imagination the depth and magnitude of the totally unhinged melt down trantrum trump had when he learned his plan to defraud the country failed and pence refused to bow head bend knee and sell his soul for the scam.

I bet bad orange man was 50 shades of bad red rage.

So manwon how should he be punished?

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Its beyond my imagination the depth and magnitude of the totally unhinged melt down trantrum trump had when he learned his plan to defraud the country failed and pence refused to bow head bend knee and sell his soul for the scam.

I bet bad orange man was 50 shades of bad red rage.

So manwon how should he be punished?

 

There is no doubt about it, l mean he literally mentally went off the rails, and it’s not a stretch to thing with his bladder and bowel control issues even thought he was certainly wearing his diaper that it leaked. ,  all I know ls I would feel very sorry for whoever had to clean the car that day!

Can anyone imagine what’s being said here? Oh Donny it’s ok, everyone craps their pants when they become over excited, come on let’s go get you cleaned up and if you real good while their changing you. I will take you to McDonalds for a Filet of Fish, doesn’t that sound reallly Goood!

[Doug1066]

36 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

Democrats that were arrested yesterday for their rebellion against the Supreme Court.

This was just a ceremonial arrest.  It is common practice to demonstrate one's dedication to the cause by allowing one's self to be arrested.  As long as nobody gets hurt, the courts impose a $25 fine and that's the end of it.  In the meantime, AOC et al. have proven their bona fides.

Doug

[Doug1066]

41 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

That's an option, certainly worth considering.  Maybe that's all that's needed.

Doug

Edited July 21, 2022 by Doug1066

[Doug1066]

31 minutes ago, the13bats said:

You had to kind of figure that a certain type of marmalade messiah worshipper would support their god with ridiculous comments like trump is innocent.

So let me ask do you think tRump is at all concerned?

Trump believes that if he is an active candidate, DOJ will refrain from prosecuting him.  And if he wins (as he will in his own mind), he might be able to dodge the cops entirely.

Doug

[el midgetron]

29 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

 4c.  When the Presidential Motorcade left the location of the President Rally. President Trump was informed that he would not be taken to meet his based on the Capital lawn. Immediately after being informed of this the President lost all composure and entered a psychotic fugue state, where he attempted to grab the steering wheel from the rear of his vehicle where his secret service detachment had to intervene to prevent him from causing accident. The Presidents next actions while still in this psychotic fugue state were to physically attempt to attack the secret service agent who stopped him from grabbing the steering wheel.This is hilarious because President Trumpf tried to grab the agent by his throat.  Well needless to say his attempt was stopped by the Agent who had every right to physically subdued the President at that time in any manner necessary. However, the President was lucky because the agent even during this psychotic episode maintained his cool and professionally dealt with the mentally fragile President!

NBC News chief White House correspondent Peter Alexander, who collaborated with colleague Allan Smith on the reporting, also posted the news on Twitter, tweeting, “A source close to the Secret Service tells me both Bobby Engel, the lead agent, and the presidential limousine/SUV driver are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted and that Mr. Trump never lunged for the steering wheel.” This development was also broadcast on “NBC Nightly News” that night.
 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/secret-service-debunked-hutchinson/
 

I totally think Trump should be prosecuted. The innuendo and narrative pushed by the media and Democrats might get some traction in the forum of public opinion. However, I think in a just court of law this silliness would get a brutal smack down. 

[Doug1066]

26 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

But I would add to your comments above that he should be stripped of his American Citizenship, and forced to leave the United States and never under any circumstances be allowed to return!

That's another idea, but with what he knows about classified information, it may be too risky.

Doug

[the13bats]

23 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Trump believes that if he is an active candidate, DOJ will refrain from prosecuting him.  And if he wins (as he will in his own mind), he might be able to dodge the cops entirely.

Doug

A month ago i would have have said trump will run but no he wont win now i doubt he will even run as he hates to be a loser and 2 time loser would be worse, he lost last time because he was a bumblingly incompetent total failure utter disaster and people wanted him out they didnt want biden.

but now even fewer like trump his little pseudo rallies are embarrassing in their tiny like his hands turn outs the GOP are done with him.

I realize the sparse few loyal bent knees he have left are a bit delusional that hes still a flawless untouchable god who will get another 4  but i foresee him proscuted and convicted of crimes not sure which of countless but then what, idk.

[the13bats]

37 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

There is no doubt about it, l mean he literally mentally went off the rails, and it’s not a stretch to thing with his bladder and bowel control issues even thought he was certainly wearing his diaper that it leaked. ,  all I know ls I would feel very sorry for whoever had to clean the car that day!

Can anyone imagine what’s being said here? Oh Donny it’s ok, everyone craps their pants when they become over excited, come on let’s go get you cleaned up and if you real good while their changing you. I will take you to McDonalds for a Filet of Fish, doesn’t that sound reallly Goood!

I forgot about that i understand he used to mess himself a lot on that game show so he likely did it bigly on the 6th.

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

That's another idea, but with what he knows about classified information, it may be too risky.

Doug

No it would not be too risky at all, Trump has been considered a Seditious Traitor by our Military fir a long time.You can go to Las Vegas and bet the bank that, first of all unlike other ‘President after they are out office, they still receive security update, but Trump!! He left as a disgrace and a National Security risk so that will not happened. In addition any classified operational data has already been changed, but yea with his big mouth he could go hey guy!. Let le tell you something but he could never prove it and plus he is such liar who would believe anything he says!

So honestly I don’t believe that’s a issue at all!  But there are certain options he could be given a lobotomy, I mean I don’t think if  that happened it would effect anything beside memory anyway. In fact that procedure may help him stop lying all time and that would be an improvement!

[Golden Duck]

4 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

The hearings did no such thing. As the thread is built on a faulty premise, I don't think I can rightfully answer. Trump is innocent, so the question is extremely simple to answer - he should not face any charges because you don't charge innocent people with crimes!

Edit: with that said,  if he is guilty,  he should be charged and convicted.  Even a president shouldn't get away with that sort of thing!

Actually, you do charge innocent people with crimes.

[Tatetopa]

From what I have heard, the next Jan. 6 hearing will focus on the hours he "gleefully " watch the riot unfold and did nothing.  It may not b e a crime.

But whether or not you think Trump believed the election was stolen, not responding when a mob is threatening the lives of Congress people and the VP  is dereliction of duty.  It ought to be adequate reason to keep him out of office.

[+Link of Hyrule]

32 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Actually, you do charge innocent people with crimes.

Intentionally charging an innocent person knowing they are innocent would be considered malicious prosecution. I'm pretty certain you knew I wasn't writing about all people charged with crimes. If innocent people weren't charged there'd be no need for a Not Guilty verdict. 

Surely that point was obvious by the content of my comment!