New peer-reviewed study: Lab leak NOT a plausible hypothesis

[Frank_Hoenedge]

22 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Gee Wiz... I wonder what happened to all those records?

That what happens in bio safety level 2 that you just don’t get in bio safety level 3+.

 

Its worth a mention that the side research would have taken place after the 2017 GCCDC1 research but before 2019.

 

The records I would want from the facility would span  October 2017-April 2019 

“Bats hibernate from November until Mid-May”

 

”Chinese pangolins spend the winter months in deep burrows that maintain stable temperatures and are excavated near termite nests, which supply a source of food. In China, the species’ distribution is understood to be closely correlated with two termite species (Coptotermes formosanus and Termes formosanus).”

[+ouija ouija]

 

[Frank_Hoenedge]

On 9/12/2022 at 6:20 AM, Frank_Hoenedge said:

It takes 16 hours and 35 minutes to travel the 1561km from Kunming, Yunnan to Wuhan. 

Yet again not one person posted a cost efficiency statement regarding the illegal trade in endangered animals.

 

A long wheel base van would achieve around 5 miles a litre.

 

The wet markets even had prices.

[stereologist]

17 hours ago, Frank_Hoenedge said:

You win again.
 

The topic is New peer-reviewed study: Lab leak NOT a plausible hypothesis

Which is evidently wrong

There is only one other way to shape your lines of enquiry to afford more doubt and that’s to evidence glycosine formation and the type of diet required to facilitate different sugar/fat structures.

That article show your idle speculation that you cannot support to be wrong, very wrong.

Please continue to embarrass yourself with your failures.

[stereologist]

15 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

Lancet reports that the source of the recent Coronavirus outbreak could have been a U.S. based laboratory, 

Interesting ….

 

I recall this guy making up some sort of hooey a couple of years back.

[+DieChecker]

19 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

Lancet reports that the source of the recent Coronavirus outbreak could have been a U.S. based laboratory, 

Interesting ….

 

What he says, read from the Lancet, dovetails with what I said above. That China has not shared their documents related to the time in question, and there seems to have been zero third party investigation at all of the Institute. 

The preaccepted opinion was one of zoonotic tranfer... case closed. So very little investigation happened outside that assumption. Seems China wants it, very badly, to remain that way.

EDIT: Oh, and someone please tell the Lancet that No Scientists believe in the lab leak theory. Zero, according to several local UM experts. I'm sure they'll be happy to know its all done science and it's all figured out now.

Edited September 16, 2022 by DieChecker

[+DieChecker]

Dovetails in with what I just posted.

Science: Where did the pandemic start? Anywhere but here, argue papers by Chinese scientists echoing party line.
https://www.science.org/content/article/pandemic-start-anywhere-but-here-argue-papers-chinese-scientists-echoing-party-line
 

Quote

When Alice Hughes downloaded a preprint from the server Research Square in September 2021, she could hardly believe her eyes. The study described a massive effort to survey bat viruses in China, in search of clues to the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic. A team of 21 researchers from the country’s leading academic institutions had trapped more than 17,000 bats, from the subtropical south to the frigid northeast, and tested them for relatives of SARS-CoV-2.

The number they found: zero.

The authors acknowledged this was a surprising result. But they concluded relatives of SARS-CoV-2 are “extremely rare” in China and suggested that to pinpoint the pandemic’s roots, “extensive” bat surveys should take place abroad, in the Indochina Peninsula.

“I don’t believe it for a second,” says Hughes, a conservation biologist who’s now at Hong Kong University. Between May 2019 and November 2020, she had done her own survey of 342 bats in the Xishuangbanna Tropical Botanical Garden, a branch of the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) in Yunnan province where she worked at the time. As her team reported in Cell in June 2021, it found four viruses related to SARS-CoV-2 in the garden, which is about three times the size of New York City’s Central Park.

So...... Clearly the Chinese government, the CCP, is attempting some kind of cover up. Or, at the least, fudging data to create an illusion.

Quote

Dutch virologist Marion Koopmans, a prominent member of the WHO team, acknowledges politics played a role in both statements. Koopmans says she never put much stock in the frozen food route. As to the notion that mammals weren’t sold at the Huanan market, she says the international scientists on the mission were “highly skeptical” of the claim. They even showed their Chinese counterparts a photo Holmes had taken a few years earlier at that very market that showed a caged raccoon dog—a species known to be highly susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 and able to transmit it.

But in the end, hard evidence that the market sold mammals in 2019 was lacking, and the international scientists went along with the “no verified reports” phrasing, Koopmans says, to avoid “the political situation.”

So much for those arguing all of these reports are pure science and not political at all. I've been saying the CCP was influencing the data collecting,  and the investigations, for political reasons, all along.

Edited September 16, 2022 by DieChecker

[Raptor Witness]

My belief is that the mistake of putting mammal species, which are not normally in close proximity, into a confined, often bad environment, is worse than a laboratory with strict controls.

The science of gain of function isn’t easy to conceal, genetically…

Edited September 17, 2022 by Raptor Witness

[stereologist]

On 9/15/2022 at 11:46 PM, DieChecker said:

What he says, read from the Lancet, dovetails with what I said above. That China has not shared their documents related to the time in question, and there seems to have been zero third party investigation at all of the Institute. 

The preaccepted opinion was one of zoonotic tranfer... case closed. So very little investigation happened outside that assumption. Seems China wants it, very badly, to remain that way.

EDIT: Oh, and someone please tell the Lancet that No Scientists believe in the lab leak theory. Zero, according to several local UM experts. I'm sure they'll be happy to know its all done science and it's all figured out now.

Not true. Here you are not looking at some of the important pieces of evidence. You are focusing on the institute. Are you doing exactly what you are complaining about?

The "preaccepted opinion was one of zoonotic tranfer" is not a true statement. That means everything else based on this false premise is questionable.

[stereologist]

On 9/16/2022 at 12:31 AM, DieChecker said:

Dovetails in with what I just posted.

Science: Where did the pandemic start? Anywhere but here, argue papers by Chinese scientists echoing party line.
https://www.science.org/content/article/pandemic-start-anywhere-but-here-argue-papers-chinese-scientists-echoing-party-line
 

So...... Clearly the Chinese government, the CCP, is attempting some kind of cover up. Or, at the least, fudging data to create an illusion.

So much for those arguing all of these reports are pure science and not political at all. I've been saying the CCP was influencing the data collecting,  and the investigations, for political reasons, all along.

We should all know that the Chinese government is untrustable. They are in the business of exporting their culture such as TCM, which is not old, and acupuncture which is a sham. Did you know that China papers on acupuncture are 100% positive - a statistical impossibility.

What we do know is that China is the first country to report the disease. We also know that the oldest strains originated in China. We know that the Chinese withheld the genetic sequencing for a month - against WHO rules. There is of course more to pile on here.

[Frank_Hoenedge]

Whilst some internet experts sleep, a machine’s cogs and gears start to whir…

Here we have an assertion from Sen. Rand Paul (running for re-election too)

[+DieChecker]

8 hours ago, stereologist said:

Not true. Here you are not looking at some of the important pieces of evidence. You are focusing on the institute. Are you doing exactly what you are complaining about?

The "preaccepted opinion was one of zoonotic tranfer" is not a true statement. That means everything else based on this false premise is questionable.

I'm not just focused on the Institute. I've read a wide range of info. I just want to see the same level of rigor being used across the various possibilities, rather the focusing only on one and dusmissing the others.

I'd argue that it is basically true. The zoonotic theory was the first and by far the more accepted possibility. Everyone was like, "How did this happen?". Then Trump said it maybe came from the Institute (Feb2020 I think) and every major outlet of news, other then FOX, was then saying it was zoonotic and came from the animal market, and Trump was an idiot. Which is a seperate issue. Most experts then jumped on the train and stated the same. Or, at least the media only chose experts they agreed with to publish their opinions. It became the de'facto answer and those not agreeing were called "Deniers".

I'd agree some still had objectivity, such as WHO, but Fauci and the CDC entirely agreed it was zoonotic by like odds of 20 to 1. Thus, almost all follow on non-Chinese data collecting and  reports focused primarily on that.

I'm not even saying that's wrong, just that it was true the lab got much less scrutiny. And that such did direct where the inquiries and data collecting went. Even on the zoonotic side the data is spotty. We're told the animal(s) likely came from a wildlife farm, but I've never even heard how many such farms there were and if a single one was investigated. I'm sure the CCP did, but the lack of published information is either to assuage their pride, or to hide something they found.

Now we have the CCP dodging legitimate record requests, and many online still saying, "It's nothing, because we know it came from a market animal, so let it go". Which is exactly what the CCP wants to happen. Coincidence?

Edited September 21, 2022 by DieChecker

[stereologist]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

I'm not just focused on the Institute. I've read a wide range of info. I just want to see the same level of rigor being used across the various possibilities, rather the focusing only on one and dusmissing the others.

I'd argue that it is basically true. The zoonotic theory was the first and by far the more accepted possibility. Everyone was like, "How did this happen?". Then Trump said it maybe came from the Institute (Feb2020 I think) and every major outlet of news, other then FOX, was then saying it was zoonotic and came from the animal market, and Trump was an idiot. Which is a seperate issue. Most experts then jumped on the train and stated the same. Or, at least the media only chose experts they agreed with to publish their opinions. It became the de'facto answer and those not agreeing were called "Deniers".

I'd agree some still had objectivity, such as WHO, but Fauci and the CDC entirely agreed it was zoonotic by like odds of 20 to 1. Thus, almost all follow on non-Chinese data collecting and  reports focused primarily on that.

I'm not even saying that's wrong, just that it was true the lab got much less scrutiny. And that such did direct where the inquiries and data collecting went. Even on the zoonotic side the data is spotty. We're told the animal(s) likely came from a wildlife farm, but I've never even heard how many such farms there were and if a single one was investigated. I'm sure the CCP did, but the lack of published information is either to assuage their pride, or to hide something they found.

Now we have the CCP dodging legitimate record requests, and many online still saying, "It's nothing, because we know it came from a market animal, so let it go". Which is exactly what the CCP wants to happen. Coincidence?

The notion that actual researchers are "focusing only on one" is simply not correct. Fake researchers such as politicians may do that. Researchers are looking at multiple possibilities. Was  it that particular market, the virology institute or some other source. The problem with looking at a potential source is avoiding what the researchers did and that is collecting evidence. The evidence leads to a source and not looking in one p lace such as the virology institute.

No matter how you look at the issue this is a zoonotic disease. That is what it is. The source as transfer from animals at the market or the source as animals to people at the institute still makes it a zoonotic disease. At the market it looks like there were intermediate hosts. We know that dogs and cats can get it and so can mink, a weasel. Lots of animals can get the same disease people get, Which animal had it before it jumped to people? We don't know and may never know. At the institute did people get it directly from a bat, i.e. a needle jab, or from cell cultures, or from the egg experiment, or from something else? We don't know and may never know.

When someone like Fauci says it is zoonotic he is referring to a disease in an animal that infected a person rather than a disease only  passed between people, e.g. smallpox, or a manufactured disease. Here are important points to remember. One is that the genetic sequence does not indicate any genetic engineering. Two, the infectious portion of the disease is a spike protein that mathematical models indicates would be poor. This disease exposed a problem in the modeling that I'll bet has since been corrected. At the time someone would not have engineered that spike since the models stated - don't do that.

The lab has gotten plenty of scrutiny. I bet the water coming out of the lab is screened by the CIA. But that of course is pure speculation on my part.

[+DieChecker]

22 hours ago, stereologist said:

The notion that actual researchers are "focusing only on one" is simply not correct. Fake researchers such as politicians may do that. Researchers are looking at multiple possibilities. Was  it that particular market, the virology institute or some other source. The problem with looking at a potential source is avoiding what the researchers did and that is collecting evidence. The evidence leads to a source and not looking in one p lace such as the virology institute.

It's true. Many researchers are looking at multiple possibilities. But not the majority of them. We've seen several articles and papers written that strongly suggest there's only the one possibility. That some mystery animal(s) got sold at the market and caused the pandemic. With a caviot that the animal was almost certainly wild, or from a wildlife farm.

Researchers looking at many possibilities seem to be of two, or three, kinds. One, works for the CCP and is seeking a reason it's not China's fault. Two, works for the WHO and is trying to cover all possibilities. And three, those totally dismissed by the media and majority opinion. I was going to only say two, but WHO actually seems to be taking this seriously recently.

So saying it's been taken seriously because people have been researching it, is like saying bigfoit is real because people are researching it.

Just because some have researched a bit on the Institute and Covid doesn't mean it's been taken seriously. 

Quote

The lab has gotten plenty of scrutiny. I bet the water coming out of the lab is screened by the CIA. But that of course is pure speculation on my part.

If that's true then little of its been published anywhere online.

I bet the CCP did a lot of investigation. And probably didn't like what they found, since records and document requests by many outside investigative bodies have been refused over and over again. I'd even suggest those records/documents have been destroyed.

[Frank_Hoenedge]

Comments made by former MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove are worth reading. As is Angus Dalgleish and B Sorenson’s paper

 

Post here on Cambridge dot org

[stereologist]

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

It's true. Many researchers are looking at multiple possibilities. But not the majority of them. We've seen several articles and papers written that strongly suggest there's only the one possibility. That some mystery animal(s) got sold at the market and caused the pandemic. With a caviot that the animal was almost certainly wild, or from a wildlife farm.

Researchers looking at many possibilities seem to be of two, or three, kinds. One, works for the CCP and is seeking a reason it's not China's fault. Two, works for the WHO and is trying to cover all possibilities. And three, those totally dismissed by the media and majority opinion. I was going to only say two, but WHO actually seems to be taking this seriously recently.

So saying it's been taken seriously because people have been researching it, is like saying bigfoit is real because people are researching it.

Just because some have researched a bit on the Institute and Covid doesn't mean it's been taken seriously. 

If that's true then little of its been published anywhere online.

I bet the CCP did a lot of investigation. And probably didn't like what they found, since records and document requests by many outside investigative bodies have been refused over and over again. I'd even suggest those records/documents have been destroyed.

This is  not correct: "Many researchers are looking at multiple possibilities. But not the majority of them." Researchers are all looking at multiple possibilities. Just because the market is the place where the outbreak took place does not mean that the other possibilities were overlooked or neglected.

This analogy doesn't work: "So saying it's been taken seriously because people have been researching it, is like saying bigfoit is real because people are researching it."

Why? Because the researchers looking into the origin are actual researchers not clowns like the so-called researchers of bigfoot.

Your entire post here seems to be more CT thinking than anything else. You are not looking at the evidence, but rather speculating with no regard to the evidence.

[+ouija ouija]

This is about an article in The Lancet.

"The world's leading medical journal has conceded that the Covid pandemic could have been sparked by a laboratory leak and admits that the virus may have been engineered by scientists."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11223335/Covid-19-Worlds-medical-journal-finally-says-virus-come-lab-leak.html

[+DieChecker]

13 hours ago, stereologist said:

This is  not correct: "Many researchers are looking at multiple possibilities. But not the majority of them." Researchers are all looking at multiple possibilities. Just because the market is the place where the outbreak took place does not mean that the other possibilities were overlooked or neglected.

BULL! You're pretending a handful of researchers is a "full analysis". It's not. Just a year ago, it was openly stated that although the zoononic wild animal theory was best fit, that there was precious little research done to confirm it. Thus we had several papers written this year to try to do just that. BUT NOW, supposedly, though even the market theory data was spotty, the Institute investigation was very though? Come on. That's LOL.

It's clear little independent research has been done on a possible Institute link, and my previous links directly stated that even the WHO researchers bowed to the CCP in their analysis and conclusions, for political reasons. And that's on top of the CCP refusing all foreign requests for records and documents. 

Quote

Your entire post here seems to be more CT thinking than anything else. You are not looking at the evidence, but rather speculating with no regard to the evidence.

I've posted several links, including the WHO, who say there's a derth of data coming from the Institute. But you continue to protect it like you have money involved, or a relative being blamed.

In my book where there is smoke, there's probably fire. And the Institute is looking more and more smokey.  And so what is smoking needs to be looked into. You've already admitted that the Chinese are ego bound liars, and, are withholding data. What do you fear from a deep dive investigation of the Institute? Do you believe they'll simply be wasting time. Or, fear there will actually be "fire" found? Which might upend a lot of people's personal paradigms. 

I'm not even trying to counter the market as the origin, but to be sure that the pre-pandemic origin is what people say it probably is. But there's precious little data to even show for that. Mostly deduction and parallels driven assumptions. Almost none, online, proving anything, one way or the other, regarding the Institute. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by DieChecker

[stereologist]

5 hours ago, ouija ouija said:

This is about an article in The Lancet.

"The world's leading medical journal has conceded that the Covid pandemic could have been sparked by a laboratory leak and admits that the virus may have been engineered by scientists."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11223335/Covid-19-Worlds-medical-journal-finally-says-virus-come-lab-leak.html

Did you read what it had to say?

Quote

However, the journal – which says the world should take ‘seriously’ both main hypotheses – has also suggested the virus could be linked to laboratories in the US, provoking fears it is still promoting China’s cause rather than good science.

Is this a letter or a peer reviewed article. We see that the earlier controversy was a letter.

 

[stereologist]

3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

BULL! You're pretending a handful of researchers is a "full analysis". It's not. Just a year ago, it was openly stated that although the zoononic wild animal theory was best fit, that there was precious little research done to confirm it. Thus we had several papers written this year to try to do just that. BUT NOW, supposedly, though even the market theory data was spotty, the Institute investigation was very though? Come on. That's LOL.

It's clear little independent research has been done on a possible Institute link, and my previous links directly stated that even the WHO researchers bowed to the CCP in their analysis and conclusions, for political reasons. And that's on top of the CCP refusing all foreign requests for records and documents. 

I've posted several links, including the WHO, who say there's a derth of data coming from the Institute. But you continue to protect it like you have money involved, or a relative being blamed.

In my book where there is smoke, there's probably fire. And the Institute is looking more and more smokey.  And so what is smoking needs to be looked into. You've already admitted that the Chinese are ego bound liars, and, are withholding data. What do you fear from a deep dive investigation of the Institute? Do you believe they'll simply be wasting time. Or, fear there will actually be "fire" found? Which might upend a lot of people's personal paradigms. 

I'm not even trying to counter the market as the origin, but to be sure that the pre-pandemic origin is what people say it probably is. But there's precious little data to even show for that. Mostly deduction and parallels driven assumptions. Almost none, online, proving anything, one way or the other, regarding the Institute. 

BULL! This is not correct: "This is  not correct: "Many researchers are looking at multiple possibilities. But not the majority of them."

The denial of documents by the CCP is well known. It is not evidence. It simply leads to the sort of speculative comments you have been making. It is well known and established that "there's a derth of data coming from the Institute".

No I am not protecting anything. That's BULL! I am simply pointing out that you are making speculations and almost constantly not mentioning the established evidence. Two strains, the earliest cases of the outbreak, and the existence of animals known to get infected by this virus. Those are evidence. The lack of evidence from the Wuhan Institute is not evidence.

I do not fear. That is just you making up more BS based on conspiracy minded thinking. Your wild and now becoming crazy speculations are without merit.

[+DieChecker]

14 hours ago, stereologist said:

BULL! This is not correct: "This is  not correct: "Many researchers are looking at multiple possibilities. But not the majority of them."

The denial of documents by the CCP is well known. It is not evidence. It simply leads to the sort of speculative comments you have been making. It is well known and established that "there's a derth of data coming from the Institute".

No I am not protecting anything. That's BULL! I am simply pointing out that you are making speculations and almost constantly not mentioning the established evidence. Two strains, the earliest cases of the outbreak, and the existence of animals known to get infected by this virus. Those are evidence. The lack of evidence from the Wuhan Institute is not evidence.

I do not fear. That is just you making up more BS based on conspiracy minded thinking. Your wild and now becoming crazy speculations are without merit.

So the lack of information from the Institute/CCP does not indicate a lack of research on the subject? It does mean a lack of ability to reach conclusions IMHO. 

[+DieChecker]

From yesterday's news...

Business Insider: Fauci: China officials 'probably' hiding something about COVID origins.
https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-china-officials-probably-hiding-something-about-covid-origins-2022-

Quote

Dr. Anthony Fauci says he's dedicated to "keeping a completely open mind" about how the coronavirus first emerged in Wuhan, China in 2019, but he still wishes he had more information to go on from the Chinese government.

Quote

"The fact is, as a society, when something occurs that looks like — even if it's naturally coming out of China — they will be secretive about it," Fauci said of the Chinese government. "Because of this feeling that they're gonna get blamed for something."

Seems some people still consider the Lab Leak a possibility.

[bmk1245]

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

From yesterday's news...

Business Insider: Fauci: China officials 'probably' hiding something about COVID origins.
https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-china-officials-probably-hiding-something-about-covid-origins-2022-

Seems some people still consider the Lab Leak a possibility.

Yeap.

I'll add bit to that: back in late autumn of 2019 in russiaн siberia there was a spike of atypical pneumonia cases, with hospitals being overflown. On Sep 16, 2019, there was explosion in 'Vektor' virology center (near Novosibirsk). Coincidence? Might be Cov-19 (I'm speculating here) origin is in 'Vector', not Wuhan.

PS Dr Smith disagrees with coof pandemic being over

[Frank_Hoenedge]

Thousands of kilometres..z

 

also worth a look at… 

A piece on the explosion hosted on iser med unsw edu Australia

Quote

Steps which need to be taken include:

1. Accounting for all pathogen samples and stocks in the building, and securing them while the building is breached (broken windows).

2. Perimeter security.

3. PPE and vaccination for all first responders at the scene.

4. Environmental testing for contamination inside and outside the building, including along the likely trajectory of propagation of the shockwave.

5. If any evidence of a breach of pathogens is present, depending on the pathogen, vaccination and/or chemoprophylaxis of staff in the building and the surrounding population should be considered. Smallpox vaccine, for example, is still effective post-exposure.

6. Quarantine of any potentially exposed people.

7. Fever screening and serial interval testing (for example by serology or throat swabs) of people in the building and surrounding area for exposure.

8. Stockpiling of medical countermeasures (drugs, vaccines, PPE, immunoglobulin) informed by the findings in 1-6 above, and plans for rapid deployment of stockpiles which are held far from the site.

9. Enhanced disease surveillance in the local area and beyond, for at least 6 months after the event.

10. Plans for physical space for case isolation and human resources capacity (for treatment of cases and contact tracing and vaccination) in the event of an epidemic.

Only the Russian government has the specific information required to inform preparedness around this event, and the rest of the world relies on prompt communication of any disease cases or clusters from Russia to prevent a pandemic arising. If classified biological research was occurring at Vector, there may be a powerful disincentive for the government to disclose disease occurrence.

Quote

Long distance transmission over distances of a mile or more was observed, in the absence of other cases of smallpox in the community in Fulham (10), England (10,11), Salonika, Greece (11), Gravesend, UK (11) and Purfleet, UK (10) as well as several other settings. In 1971, a 400g smallpox “bomb” was exploded on Vozrozhdeniye Island, a Soviet bioweapons testing site. A crew member on the Lev Berg ship, which was sailing in the Aral Sea at least 15 km from the island, became infected with smallpox (12). This suggests that an explosion could disperse variola virus at least 15 km.

Quote

A mitigating factor in this instance is that Koltsovo is in a remote part of Russia and has a small population (approximately 16,000 people), and the wider Novosibirsky District has a population of about 120,000.

Flight logs would help I guess.

A uk law:

Intentional or Reckless Sexual Transmission of Infection Legal Guidance, Sexual offences , Violent crime

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Frank_Hoenedge

[Frank_Hoenedge]

Another piece illustrating how the lab leak hypothesis is credible can be found Here hosted on the Daily Mail website

 

Quote

Nine years on and the miners of Mojiang are suddenly generating headlines worldwide after the Wall Street Journal reported conclusions from a confidential U.S. intelligence report last weekend.

The newspaper reported that three researchers from the WIV were hospitalised in November 2019 with symptoms 'consistent with Covid-19'. That is at least a month before Beijing officially reported the existence of a new respiratory illness to the world on December 31, 2019.

You’ll like it as it mentions Yunnan, Bats, infections in 2012, and samples at Wuhan.

 

Reasons not to like it include Zheng-Li Shi claiming that the miners died from a fungal infection. The virus mentioned having 2% more genomic similarity compared with GCCDC1, and continuous references to copper mine sampling when the viral particle causing Covid-19 dies in fractions of the normal time in contact with copper, including cup rates found all around copper mines and various copper compounds worn in by footfall.