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Consciousness may persist after death, study suggests


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On 8/1/2022 at 3:21 PM, Nnicolette said:

Old news. But yeah clinically dying and leaving your body and seeing the tunnel of light and your body being attemptedly dumped and purposefully getting back into it definitely does make one feel pretty confident that they exist with or without of thier body. You can experience the same thing with DMT or even during sleep or meditation. I did it on accident once when sleeping. Seemed to be visiting my dad hundreds of miles away when he was sleeping. Just floating around hanging out in his house at night. It ended with sleep paralysis which was terrifying and i strongly suspect has to do with a difficulty rousing yourself while reentering your body. Has anyone else experienced anything like an accidental astral projection that ended with sleep paralysis?

I have been trying to turn my bedroom light on when doing it.

But I wonder off loosing my focus.

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2 hours ago, Jon the frog said:

Lot of cells in the body probably die a way later than 20sec... Sure that we are still brain conscious for 20sec, parasympathetic and sympathetic system are probably running way longer.

Decomposition Timing?

Brain cells can die if deprived of oxygen for more than three minutes. Muscle cells live on for several hours. Bone and skin cells can stay alive for several days.

 

https://australian.museum/about/history/exhibitions/death-the-last-taboo/decomposition-body-changes/#:~:text=lose their stiffness.-,Decomposition Timing%3F,stay alive for several days.

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2 hours ago, Jon the frog said:

It was more a Mike the  faceless chicken than Mike the brain less chicken... most of his brain was still intact.

Yes but cool story. 

 

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2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

This is a ride we get on, experiencing life in a human body on planet earth.   Consciousness doesn't need a body.

Utter nonsense. 

An old man made religious based myth. 

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13 hours ago, LightAngel said:

And admit that we can't be sure about anything when it comes to this topic.

It's amazing how dogmatic many can be about this topic.  I guess that to admit life after death as even a possibility it would mean they'd have to entertain the idea that a Creative intelligence possibly existed.  They are simply adamant that this CANNOT be true.

NDEs have one attribute that make them sufficiently hard to dismiss that interests me.  Quite a few involve the individual accurately describing events or objects that are separated from the room they are in.  

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1 minute ago, and-then said:

It's amazing how dogmatic many can be about this topic.  I guess that to admit life after death as even a possibility it would mean they'd have to entertain the idea that a Creative intelligence possibly existed.  They are simply adamant that this CANNOT be true.

NDEs have one attribute that make them sufficiently hard to dismiss that interests me.  Quite a few involve the individual accurately describing events or objects that are separated from the room they are in.  

It's more amazing how dogmatic belief can be. 

Despite sound information proving life does not persist after death, some still decide to champion old man made myths. 

The worn out creator idea isn't even required for the afterlife fantasy, many who don't believe in a creator do believe in an afterlife scenario.

Embellishing anecdotes is for those already convinced that old myths are more likely answers than modern sciences. 

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On 8/2/2022 at 12:21 AM, Nnicolette said:

Old news. But yeah clinically dying and leaving your body and seeing the tunnel of light and your body being attemptedly dumped and purposefully getting back into it definitely does make one feel pretty confident that they exist with or without of thier body. You can experience the same thing with DMT or even during sleep or meditation. I did it on accident once when sleeping. Seemed to be visiting my dad hundreds of miles away when he was sleeping. Just floating around hanging out in his house at night. It ended with sleep paralysis which was terrifying and i strongly suspect has to do with a difficulty rousing yourself while reentering your body. Has anyone else experienced anything like an accidental astral projection that ended with sleep paralysis?

You do realise that the article has nothing to do with life after death stories?

It says the brain shuts down twenty seconds later than expected. It doesn't say there's life after twenty seconds.

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4 hours ago, and-then said:

It's amazing how dogmatic many can be about this topic.  I guess that to admit life after death as even a possibility it would mean they'd have to entertain the idea that a Creative intelligence possibly existed.  They are simply adamant that this CANNOT be true.

NDEs have one attribute that make them sufficiently hard to dismiss that interests me.  Quite a few involve the individual accurately describing events or objects that are separated from the room they are in.  

That dogma door swings both ways, this idea of NDE is flawed from its title on, "near" isnt dead, and hallucinations during trauma do not support life after stone cold dead.

I guess some fear dead is the end ( sorry nick cave ) is so terrifying they have to make up fantasies to feel comfy, i do envy that pesudo comfort.

Can you present one documented case where events were not made to fit after the fact, not he said she said stories.

 

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21 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

At the moment of decapitation, the brain would suffer a massive drop in blood pressure.

As it does when the heart stops in a heart attack etc, but we still resuscitate people successfully even if CPR isn’t instigated the second the heart stops.  Usually takes up to a couple of minutes in non hospital situation for any bystander to ascertain no heart beat, get the patient on their back, and to get themselves mentally organised to perform CPR.

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1 hour ago, Susanc241 said:

As it does when the heart stops in a heart attack etc, but we still resuscitate people successfully even if CPR isn’t instigated the second the heart stops.  Usually takes up to a couple of minutes in non hospital situation for any bystander to ascertain no heart beat, get the patient on their back, and to get themselves mentally organised to perform CPR.

I often wonder what that person is feeling or possibly dreaming. I was in a Armored Vehicle that was hit by the blast from an IED in Iraq. I had some fractured Vertebra, I suffered a TBI or a Traumatic Brain Injury. and some other minor fractures. When the IED exploded we were actually lucky, because it was off to the side of and not directly under us, because if it had been everyone would have died.

Anyway, I woke up in Landstol US Army Hospital in Germany approximately 7 days after the event and while talking with my doctor I found out that I had died a couple of times on the way to the hospital. However to this very day I don't remember anything and maybe that's for the best!

Take care Susan!:tu:

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On 8/3/2022 at 1:56 AM, pbarosso said:

what the heck happened i cant even edit it.

 

I just had a Near Laugh Experience.

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12 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

This is a ride we get on, experiencing life in a human body on planet earth.   Consciousness doesn't need a body.

Seriously? 

Why would Consciousness wish to  get on such a ride?  Is pure Consciousness  Sado-Masochistic? 

So, when a sperm hits the egg...a separate life form begins to develop and upon full development our Consciousness says, My turn...dubs on this ride? And we beam down into the body?

Honestly Desertrat...that's just about as silly as it gets.  The reality is...the truth is...consciousness is only as viable as the brain that generates it. 

A better analogy is of Consciousness to a Hologram.  A machine generates the hologram.  If the machine is turned off...the hologram goes away.   There is no Consciousness without the brain.  Conscious, Subconscious...it's all the brain generating everything.  This really isn't that hard...the body is necessary for the brain to generate Consciousness.  

The hardest thing is to get our Minds around the Truth.   It is hard to accept the truth that there is nothing after we die.  Nothing.  Believing in life after we die is part of most of our Birth Box experience.   Consciousness is generated by the brain.  Beliefs are generated by Consciousness.  

 

Edited by joc
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13 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Check out Mike the headless chicken.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken

For the lazy among us, whom for I do not wish their going through the rest of their lives believing nonsense like chickens with no brains can still live.

Explanation of the case

It was determined that the axe had missed the jugular vein[7] and a clot had prevented Mike from bleeding to death. Although most of his head was severed, most of his brain stem and one ear were left on his body. Since basic functions (breathing, heart rate, etc.) as well as most of a chicken's reflex actions are controlled by the brain stem, Mike was able to remain quite healthy. This is a good example of central motor generators enabling basic homeostatic functions to be carried out in the absence of higher brain centres.[7] In addition, birds possess a secondary balance organ in the pelvic region, the lumbosacral organ, which controls walking locomotion virtually independently from the vestibular organ involved in flight.[8] This has been used to explain how a headless chicken can walk and balance, despite the destruction of much of the cranial vestibular system.[9

 

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:)

Edited by joc
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2 hours ago, joc said:

Seriously? 

Why would Consciousness wish to  get on such a ride?  Is pure Consciousness  Sado-Masochistic? 

So, when a sperm hits the egg...a separate life form begins to develop and upon full development our Consciousness says, My turn...dubs on this ride? And we beam down into the body?

Honestly Desertrat...that's just about as silly as it gets.  The reality is...the truth is...consciousness is only as viable as the brain that generates it. 

A better analogy is of Consciousness to a Hologram.  A machine generates the hologram.  If the machine is turned off...the hologram goes away.   There is no Consciousness without the brain.  Conscious, Subconscious...it's all the brain generating everything.  This really isn't that hard...the body is necessary for the brain to generate Consciousness.  

The hardest thing is to get our Minds around the Truth.   It is hard to accept the truth that there is nothing after we die.  Nothing.  Believing in life after we die is part of most of our Birth Box experience.   Consciousness is generated by the brain.  Beliefs are generated by Consciousness.  

 

The only one who can answer that question is you.   The problem with thinking that consciousness resides in the brain is that there are so many unanswered questions that cannot be answered pretending like we are only meat puppets subject to chemicals and electrical impulses.   What would be the point in that?   We will disagree and I am not going to argue about it.  As for the hologram theory, we are not meat machines.   There is more to us than the sum of our physical parts.   As for "the Truth" we can't get our minds around it, because we don't have the perception or understanding to even know where to look for it.

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The ultimate death, UNexistence is simply UNimaginable for us humans.

We feel we can not just be a candleflame that burns till the end of the lenghth of the candle, and then ... disappears, dies out. Gone to nothingness.

That vision is too horrible for most of us, "horror vacui", and so we fill that horrible emptiness, nothingness with reincarnation, heaven/hell, and so on.

I have read a lot of literature about reincarnation, multidimensionality, and so on when I was less than half my age.

Jane Roberts' books about "Seth", and Yarbro's books about "Michael" were the best for me: very intelligently written, very innovative... very.. whatever.

At a certain point I realized it's the fear of NOT- being that generates all of this. Why? Because there is no way we are able to imagine that. It's not like sleep, that's for sure.

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14 hours ago, psyche101 said:

It's more amazing how dogmatic belief can be. 

Despite sound information proving life does not persist after death, some still decide to champion old man made myths. 

The worn out creator idea isn't even required for the afterlife fantasy, many who don't believe in a creator do believe in an afterlife scenario.

Embellishing anecdotes is for those already convinced that old myths are more likely answers than modern sciences. 

This is just written sentences, there is no substance to back it up.

Its impossible to prove the mind doesnt continue on after death with quantitative evidence. Just like its impossible to prove most things about the mind when someone is alive. Only qualitative evidence exists which comes from people telling researchers about their experiences.

My own position is that our higher minds exist at a point in time, the stuff behind it is spread across time.

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23 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

My own position is that our higher minds exist at a point in time, the stuff behind it is spread across time.

What you mean with "stuff behind it"?

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10 hours ago, joc said:

For the lazy among us, whom for I do not wish their going through the rest of their lives believing nonsense like chickens with no brains can still live.

Explanation of the case

It was determined that the axe had missed the jugular vein[7] and a clot had prevented Mike from bleeding to death. Although most of his head was severed, most of his brain stem and one ear were left on his body. Since basic functions (breathing, heart rate, etc.) as well as most of a chicken's reflex actions are controlled by the brain stem, Mike was able to remain quite healthy. This is a good example of central motor generators enabling basic homeostatic functions to be carried out in the absence of higher brain centres.[7] In addition, birds possess a secondary balance organ in the pelvic region, the lumbosacral organ, which controls walking locomotion virtually independently from the vestibular organ involved in flight.[8] This has been used to explain how a headless chicken can walk and balance, despite the destruction of much of the cranial vestibular system.[9

 

Yeah, I know, brain remained.

Not life after death, just a wild decapitation story. Thought people might find it interesting following Grim's post. 

As I said. Cool story. An amazing set of circumstances to result in such a bizarre situation.  

 Crazy stuff happens. No paranormal required. 

That's also why I left the link.

 

Edited by psyche101
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7 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

This is just written sentences, there is no substance to back it up.

No there's plenty to back it up. 

One requires no belief in a creator to pursue the afterlife myth

Anecdotes are indeed for the already convinced

Physics shows is how the body breaks down, thermodynamics tells us how energy is dissipated. 

7 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Its impossible to prove the mind doesnt continue on after death with quantitative evidence. Just like its impossible to prove most things about the mind when someone is alive. Only qualitative evidence exists which comes from people telling researchers about their experiences.

It proves the mind cannot exist without the brain.

A parallel analogy to afterlife claims might be like claiming an apple sometimes turns into a banana when it falls from tree and hits the ground.

There is no good reason to accept that claim, and it defies knowledge we have.

Just like the afterlife myth. 

7 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

My own position is that our higher minds exist at a point in time, the stuff behind it is spread across time.

And your talking about sentences with nothing to back them up? :huh:

Imagination is personal. It doesn't apply to the real universe we live in. You can imagine yourself riding a chariot pulling the sun around the earth, but that doesn't make it true. 

Reality is that consciousness requires the brain to exist and function. Once that has stopped, so does consciousness. Consciousness is a product of functions, it's not an entity. Nothing indicates that it would be an seperate thing all.

Edited by psyche101
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8 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

The only one who can answer that question is you.   The problem with thinking that consciousness resides in the brain is that there are so many unanswered questions that cannot be answered pretending like we are only meat puppets subject to chemicals and electrical impulses.   What would be the point in that?   We will disagree and I am not going to argue about it.  As for the hologram theory, we are not meat machines.   There is more to us than the sum of our physical parts.   As for "the Truth" we can't get our minds around it, because we don't have the perception or understanding to even know where to look for it.

 

Duality has been refuted soundly. 

Descartes was wrong. What you have posited is incredibly silly and nothing like the knowledge we have.

Soul is just a word. Nothing more. It is not a magical vehicle into an unimaginable realm. It's a product of imagination.

 

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3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Yeah, I know, brain remained.

Not life after death, just a wild decapitation story. Thought people might find it interesting following Grim's post. 

As I said. Cool story. An amazing set of circumstances to result in such a bizarre situation.  

 Crazy stuff happens. No paranormal required. 

That's also why I left the link.

 

Actually only the brain stem a chicken isnt a human. Bob lived for 18 months because the stem controlled the basic functions, this wouldnt work with a human when life support is cut most pass away, bobs stem was his life support so to speak

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45 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Actually only the brain stem a chicken isnt a human. Bob lived for 18 months because the stem controlled the basic functions, this wouldnt work with a human when life support is cut most pass away, bobs stem was his life support so to speak

And because his owner fed and cared for him.

In the wild, no chance of survival. He would have died same day. 

As I told Joc, Grim's decapitation post reminded me of Mike. It's an interesting story. 

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21 hours ago, the13bats said:

Can you present one documented case where events were not made to fit after the fact, not he said she said stories.

You are dismissing the multiple accounts where things were seen and heard that could not be accounted for since they were quite distant from where the medical emergency is concerned.  As for proving anything to you and others here, I care not at all what you believe on this issue.  I'm reasonably certain that those like yourself will NEVER admit even a possibility that your science could be lacking in the least.  Which is a great irony as I see it.  To each his own.

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