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Consciousness may persist after death, study suggests


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1 hour ago, openozy said:

That's supposedly when science started. I'm saying how much we have learnt in 3000 years and how much more we will know 3000 years into the future. The way our knowledge, technology is accelerating nobody would have any idea how it will branch out.

I recall a ufo doc i have a well known writer was trying to make a point and say basically that if an alien race came here with only 100 years more advanced than us we would be primitives to them, this struck me as very odd and flawed, because for example my house is over 100 years old but the people who lived then were not "primitives" .

I think advancing slows down and is still dictated by own physics.

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On 8/21/2022 at 8:42 AM, lightly said:

Your views on belief fascinate me.   I’ve heard you say that you ,or we, either know things or don’t know things and that you have no beliefs or disbeliefs….   Now you state that belief equals Not knowing.       If I told you  it’s raining here…since you don’t know if that is ‘true’ or not …wouldn’t you have to believe me…or not?    I mean, you could refuse to consider my statement…but if you chose to consider my statement you would have no choice but to choose  ;)    between belief or disbelief?     I think you do believe and disbelieve sometimes ..but just refuse to believe it!  :P       BTW, it’s not raining here.   ?  Believe me?    ..and not caring doesn’t count! :P

Geddy Lee, 

“If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

Perhaps its my worsening mental issues or sleep deprivation or a nasty combination of both but seems its play on words "belief" or "know" is a bit interchangeable for me in a way, i know im laying in bed typing to you or i believe that i am, no real difference to me, im thinking the light at the end of my reality tunnel is getting closer, or is it?

 

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I believe what I know. .and I know what I believe!    But, I’m capable of being wrong about both.  :P

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7 hours ago, joc said:

Technology is accelerating for sure.  To be completely clear here...3000 years ago we are talking about ancient times...there was no 'scientific knowledge'.  It wasn't until well into the 20th century that we started making really significant discoveries.  And while there is so much we don't know...I seriously doubt any scientific discovery is going to turn everything we do know on it's head.  More the reverse I would think...knowledge builds on knowledge.

I agree and I doubt in a million years they will have answers to most things paranormal. Not because it doesn't exist, because there is no earthly explanation. Maybe that's a cop out but I obviously believe because I know it exists from experiences.

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7 hours ago, the13bats said:

I recall a ufo doc i have a well known writer was trying to make a point and say basically that if an alien race came here with only 100 years more advanced than us we would be primitives to them, this struck me as very odd and flawed, because for example my house is over 100 years old but the people who lived then were not "primitives" .

I think advancing slows down and is still dictated by own physics.

Lets see these old people a hundred years ago use a computer or even a cell phone or microwave. I think it's going to speed up more every year, we have no idea what's in store.

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13 hours ago, openozy said:

It might be but they thought they knew it all 3000 years ago which they didn't and they think the same now,

I honestly do t think so. 

I think like anyone three thousand years ago people were taking philosophic guesses at things we didn't have instruments or base knowledge to build from.

I often think ancients would be disgusted and horrified at how some cling to their works and state them as if fact. These pioneers were breaking new ground, forging ahead. I honestly can't see them being impressed with the modern people who stagnated on those first guesses. They broke ancient thinking with trying to figure the world out. I gave zero doubt they would have continued to do so given such opportunities. Not sitting on laurels. 

I have little doubt that with today's resources and knowledge that they would not hold those views today. I honestly believe that they would hold paranormal beliefs with distaste. 

13 hours ago, openozy said:

what about another 3000 years.

Why do you expect anything to change?

And of it doesn't, then another three thousand? And another? 

Why dismiss current knowledge for such an unlikely and fruitless pursuit? What's to be gained by holding out for the most unlikely option? 

13 hours ago, openozy said:

You really don't know because you can't. Backed by all known sciences atm is not the future.

The ones that are understood are. 

A lot of people don't seem to understand this.

Yes, there's a lot to learn. 

That in no way at all indicates that what we do know is wrong. It simply isn't wrong. Water will still be two molecules of hydrogen and one of oxygen in three thousand years. Thermodynamics will still apply. That's not going to change. 

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59 minutes ago, openozy said:

Lets see these old people a hundred years ago use a computer or even a cell phone or microwave. I think it's going to speed up more every year, we have no idea what's in store.

They have every bit the ability to do so. With instruction their would be as adept as anyone. Their brains still function as anyone's today does. 

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4 hours ago, openozy said:

I agree and I doubt in a million years they will have answers to most things paranormal. Not because it doesn't exist, because there is no earthly explanation. Maybe that's a cop out but I obviously believe because I know it exists from experiences.

I understand the fascination with experiences...but at the same time...experiences are a mental/physical manifestation of consciousness.  We are conscious feeling entities.  But the brain controls the chemicals that create the experiences.  Our conscious mental state creates the perception of the experiences.  And perceptions are not just conscious but also subconscious.  If we place SuperNatural or Paranormal reasoning in our conscious perception, our subconscious will seek memory that supports that perception...thus creating a more powerful conscious belief that the perception is real.  That perception is then categorized by the subconscious to be returned to the conscious mind in support of the next perception of the same genre.  It is a powerful mental circle of chaos that leaves us in a state of belief of things that are not necessarily the truth.  Just my thoughts.

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3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

They have every bit the ability to do so. With instruction their would be as adept as anyone. Their brains still function as anyone's today does. 

You could probably instruct an ape to use these. People are evolving, when you see one year olds knowing instinctively how to operate computers to a degree without instruction it just shows how fast. I don't agree the average person 100 years ago had the same brain capabilities with technology even if it was around then.

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13 minutes ago, joc said:

I understand the fascination with experiences...but at the same time...experiences are a mental/physical manifestation of consciousness.  We are conscious feeling entities.  But the brain controls the chemicals that create the experiences.  Our conscious mental state creates the perception of the experiences.  And perceptions are not just conscious but also subconscious.  If we place SuperNatural or Paranormal reasoning in our conscious perception, our subconscious will seek memory that supports that perception...thus creating a more powerful conscious belief that the perception is real.  That perception is then categorized by the subconscious to be returned to the conscious mind in support of the next perception of the same genre.  It is a powerful mental circle of chaos that leaves us in a state of belief of things that are not necessarily the truth.  Just my thoughts.

But that doesn't cut it when more than one person has the experience at the same time without any prior knowledge or suggestion.

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6 hours ago, openozy said:

Lets see these old people a hundred years ago use a computer or even a cell phone or microwave. I think it's going to speed up more every year, we have no idea what's in store.

Nope, its slowed down a lot, its not making the same huge leaps.

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1 hour ago, openozy said:

You could probably instruct an ape to use these. People are evolving, when you see one year olds knowing instinctively how to operate computers to a degree without instruction it just shows how fast. I don't agree the average person 100 years ago had the same brain capabilities with technology even if it was around then.

Thats just narrow minded, one year olds today do not operate computers by "instincts" and if we handed the same comp to a one year old 100 years ago they would learn it just as quickly as that brat of today, you act like people 100 years ago were knuckle dragging idiots.

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1 hour ago, openozy said:

But that doesn't cut it when more than one person has the experience at the same time without any prior knowledge or suggestion.

Sadly those example are 2nd 3rd etc party and never supported with any evidence, here ill make as example you wont like at all

You think your experence was real and could only be paranormal in explanation which has never been proven however experences like that have been proven to be of mental illness yet you are 100% closed minded tp that possibility.

 

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5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I honestly do t think so. 

I think like anyone three thousand years ago people were taking philosophic guesses at things we didn't have instruments or base knowledge to build from.

I often think ancients would be disgusted and horrified at how some cling to their works and state them as if fact. These pioneers were breaking new ground, forging ahead. I honestly can't see them being impressed with the modern people who stagnated on those first guesses. They broke ancient thinking with trying to figure the world out. I gave zero doubt they would have continued to do so given such opportunities. Not sitting on laurels. 

I have little doubt that with today's resources and knowledge that they would not hold those views today. I honestly believe that they would hold paranormal beliefs with distaste. 

Why do you expect anything to change?

And of it doesn't, then another three thousand? And another? 

Why dismiss current knowledge for such an unlikely and fruitless pursuit? What's to be gained by holding out for the most unlikely option? 

The ones that are understood are. 

A lot of people don't seem to understand this.

Yes, there's a lot to learn. 

That in no way at all indicates that what we do know is wrong. It simply isn't wrong. Water will still be two molecules of hydrogen and one of oxygen in three thousand years. Thermodynamics will still apply. That's not going to change. 

At the risk of ruffling feathers this is all smoke and mirrors deversion of a true believer,

Believers in paranormal 3000 years ago or today face the same daunting task, prove your claimes which they cant and as time passes excuses like "it doesnt work that way" or "you arent open to it" are just ridiculous and weak.

I have docs where some ego driven believer will say, proof, evidence ? I dont know where that is but if you saw what i saw you would be a believer too, correct i didnt see what you saw only you did if you saw anything and it wasnt all in your mind.

Look at bigfoot believers coming up empty they have to move on to claim lack of any supportive evidence is due to BF being some paranormal magical otherworldly creature, thats right jump from something unproven to claiming its unproven because of other unproven reasons, ( whew) its grasping at straws in a big way.

We get called closed minded when its the empty handed dear true believer who bases their entire belief and reality on their experence that has nothing besides their belief to support it. And if one suggests mental issues they melt down which is an ego thing.

Just look how many believers jumped to believe that story about the possed kids, there is nothing to support that it wasnt made up and any case worker or psychologist who said it seemed made up to them is ignored or belittled, yet if someone says they saw the brat walk backwards up a wall its believed at face value which brings us back to threads topic, a big motivator is people who are outright terrified that when we die its game over so they find comfort in fantasies like evil entities, and after we die we either go to some nexus heaven or get to photo bomb pictures, yeah, thats a great way to spend eternity.

Before any dear believers get cross with me keep in mind im good with you believing stories at face value im just asking you not to try to force your credulous unsupported beliefs on me.

 

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54 minutes ago, the13bats said:

You think your experence was real and could only be paranormal in explanation which has never been proven however experences like that have been proven to be of mental illness yet you are 100% closed minded tp that possibility

Mainly because I haven't any mental illness and neither have the friends who witnessed these. I never said anything about other people claiming paranormal, I don't know them.

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28 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Before any dear believers get cross with me keep in mind im good with you believing stories at face value im just asking you not to try to force your credulous unsupported beliefs on me

I doubt anybody cares enough what you think to do that. :D

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31 minutes ago, the13bats said:

At the risk of ruffling feathers this is all smoke and mirrors deversion of a true believer,

Believers in paranormal 3000 years ago or today face the same daunting task, prove your claimes which they cant and as time passes excuses like "it doesnt work that way" or "you arent open to it" are just ridiculous and weak.

I have docs where some ego driven believer will say, proof, evidence ? I dont know where that is but if you saw what i saw you would be a believer too, correct i didnt see what you saw only you did if you saw anything and it wasnt all in your mind.

Look at bigfoot believers coming up empty they have to move on to claim lack of any supportive evidence is due to BF being some paranormal magical otherworldly creature, thats right jump from something unproven to claiming its unproven because of other unproven reasons, ( whew) its grasping at straws in a big way.

We get called closed minded when its the empty handed dear true believer who bases their entire belief and reality on their experence that has nothing besides their belief to support it. And if one suggests mental issues they melt down which is an ego thing.

Just look how many believers jumped to believe that story about the possed kids, there is nothing to support that it wasnt made up and any case worker or psychologist who said it seemed made up to them is ignored or belittled, yet if someone says they saw the brat walk backwards up a wall its believed at face value which brings us back to threads topic, a big motivator is people who are outright terrified that when we die its game over so they find comfort in fantasies like evil entities, and after we die we either go to some nexus heaven or get to photo bomb pictures, yeah, thats a great way to spend eternity.

Before any dear believers get cross with me keep in mind im good with you believing stories at face value im just asking you not to try to force your credulous unsupported beliefs on me.

 

Most people who have witnessed the paranormal are content with putting their story out but don't expect most to believe them, other people's opinions are insignificant compared to the grand spiritual experience they were lucky enough to have been included in.

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2 hours ago, openozy said:

You could probably instruct an ape to use these. People are evolving, when you see one year olds knowing instinctively how to operate computers to a degree without instruction it just shows how fast. I don't agree the average person 100 years ago had the same brain capabilities with technology even if it was around then.

We have observed apes and orangutans with human tools. Usually they can mimic but cannot use them as we do. Well, one orangutan became an American President but that's another story altogether. 

The human brain is exactly the same now as it was 100 years ago. Honestly there is no good reason a person from a hundred years ago could not use a modern device with some instructions. Even ten thousand years ago or more. With education it's conceivable that Neanderthal man could use them.

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38 minutes ago, openozy said:

Mainly because I haven't any mental illness and neither have the friends who witnessed these. I never said anything about other people claiming paranormal, I don't know them.

I know very few people with mental issues who admit it, ( some dont know it ) for some reasons people think its better to blame the paranormal.

40 minutes ago, openozy said:

I doubt anybody cares enough what you think to do that. :D

Its weird they dont care what i think but jump to tell me they dont, im not surprized as a believer you soeak for others and do not think anyone would want to return the respect to me i give them, afterall im not the one making unsupported claims.l.

37 minutes ago, openozy said:

Most people who have witnessed the paranormal are content with putting their story out but don't expect most to believe them, other people's opinions are insignificant compared to the grand spiritual experience they were lucky enough to have been included in.

That sounds good but sadly is actually never reflected in their attitudes or posts, like i keep saying the skeptics arent the closed minded side and i can prove that fact.

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57 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

The human brain is exactly the same now as it was 100 years ago. Honestly there is no good reason a person from a hundred years ago could not use a modern device with some instructions. Even ten thousand years ago or more. With education it's conceivable that Neanderthal man could use them.

You could train an ape to press buttons as I said. So you believe the human brain hasn't evolved in ten thousand years?

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6 minutes ago, openozy said:

You could train an ape to press buttons as I said. So you believe the human brain hasn't evolved in ten thousand years?

Press a button, but they haven't got the same brain. 

This is an interesting read:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128311-800-a-brief-history-of-the-brain/

From the link:

IT IS 30,000 years ago. A man enters a narrow cave in what is now the south of France. By the flickering light of a tallow lamp, he eases his way through to the furthest chamber. On one of the stone overhangs, he sketches in charcoal a picture of the head of a bison looming above a woman’s naked body.

In 1933, Pablo Picasso creates a strikingly similar image, called Minotaur Assaulting Girl.

That two artists, separated by 30 millennia, should produce such similar work seems astonishing. But perhaps we shouldn’t be too surprised. Anatomically at least, our brains differ little from those of the people who painted the walls of the Chauvet cave all those years ago. Their art, part of the “creative explosion” of that time, is further evidence that they had brains just like ours.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQojIGtdYQXd-kPpvzrQpY

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40 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I know very few people with mental issues who admit it, ( some dont know it ) for some reasons people think its better to blame the paranormal.

Most people I've known with mental illness do admit it, as to get a pension, benefits. None of these people I've known have had anything paranormal happen around them that I can think of.

 

43 minutes ago, the13bats said:

ts weird they dont care what i think but jump to tell me they dont, im not surprized as a believer you soeak for others and do not think anyone would want to return the respect to me i give them, afterall im not the one making unsupported claims.

Mainly because you give them the third degree knowing they can't prove anything. Why would anyone respect someone basically calling them a liar when you can't prove they are lying. Either take the story or leave it or should I suggest just leave it.

 

50 minutes ago, the13bats said:

That sounds good but sadly is actually never reflected in their attitudes or posts

It's a very deep personal experience and for those brave or stupid enough to put it out there is a big thing. I don't care about what people think of me so it's not an issue.

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5 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

This is an interesting read:

They said anatomically at least which I feel is all. That pic looks like a modern police prosecutor, lol.

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13 minutes ago, openozy said:

Most people I've known with mental illness do admit it, as to get a pension, benefits. None of these people I've known have had anything paranormal happen around them that I can think of.

 

Mainly because you give them the third degree knowing they can't prove anything. Why would anyone respect someone basically calling them a liar when you can't prove they are lying. Either take the story or leave it or should I suggest just leave it.

 

It's a very deep personal experience and for those brave or stupid enough to put it out there is a big thing. I don't care about what people think of me so it's not an issue.

Sorry faking mental illness for profit isnt it, ask any mental health care professinal how many mentally ill persons do not know orcare in denial over their illness.

I dont give anyone a 3rd degree i ask about supporting evidence and many get all unhinged because im not gullible enough to take their unsupported story as fact. I never called anyone a liar my go to is saying full of BS and most are, if a story telling believer is too thin skinned for questions perhaps tgey shouldnt post their tales on open discussion forums.

On the contrary you make it very clear you care very deeply what people think of your story and it deeply bothers you that you cant prove it, tone is lost in type thats not a poke its empathy.

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38 minutes ago, openozy said:

You could train an ape to press buttons as I said. So you believe the human brain hasn't evolved in ten thousand years?

You moved the goal posts it was 3k years,

I just do not see things moving faster or the same they have slowed i believe physics plays a part, we have to work within that once a new tech is discovered its behind us so the next discovery takes longer to find.

 

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