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Consciousness may persist after death, study suggests


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10 hours ago, joc said:

B)Keep up the good work!  ...and remember...it's always better to be a smartass than a dumbass!:P

:yes: I think about things I know nothing about.  And sometimes, what I think about something is wrong.  If we only think about things we already know, how do we ever learn anything.  But thinking is not believing.  Believing is when you convince yourself that what you think about things you don't know is the truth.

For instance, black panthers.  I always thought they existed.  I've known people who have said they have seen them.  Including my parents.  But...I was wrong...there are no black panthers.  I have always been concerned about being out in the woods, especially around dusk because I know that there are mountain lions in our area.  Far and few between, nonetheless, I'd rather be safe than sorry.  But what we know about Mountain Lions is considerably more relevant than what I thought I knew.  In reality; You stand a far better chance of drowning in your bathtub than being killed by a Mountain Lion...aka...a panther. 

 


   :lol: Good one!

Me too !     Very good points!  .. We seem to look at a lot of things differently…and then you go and say something that shows me how similar we are! :)
 

image.jpeg.aa4e0872dd62ee6d42adcaf19f0b433c.jpeg    I joined the White Panthers …in 68?  :P

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23 hours ago, joc said:

 

Edit:  I actually said energy is a mental concept.  Not a thing.  ...so...I think I'll go with that until you tell me what energy actually is. 

Edit 2:  energy, in physics, the capacity for doing work. It may exist in potential, kinetic, thermal, electrical, chemical, nuclear, .

Edit 3:  A mental concept no?

Energy is definitely a thing. 

It can be converted to heat and light.

E=MC2. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 8/1/2022 at 7:31 AM, UM-Bot said:

Researchers now believe that consciousness may persist for up to 20 seconds after a person has clinically died.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/359586/consciousness-may-persist-after-death-study-suggests

Yes.. it often seems scientists portray themselves as the final authority on all things.. 

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41 minutes ago, Marcus Thaddeus Horatio said:

Yes.. it often seems scientists portray themselves as the final authority on all things.. 

Facts portray themselves as the final authority. Scientists are discoverers and messengers. 

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Scientists would NEVER play fast and loose with data for personal gain and grant money... oh, wait, yeah, they do it all the time.  Covid proved that.

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14 minutes ago, and-then said:

Scientists would NEVER play fast and loose with data for personal gain and grant money... oh, wait, yeah, they do it all the time.  Covid proved that.

No it didn't.

More lies from the radical right. 

America's Frontline doctors are who need to be investigated. Abuse of the Hippocratic oath. Disbar them. 

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13 hours ago, and-then said:

Scientists would NEVER play fast and loose with data for personal gain and grant money... oh, wait, yeah, they do it all the time.  Covid proved that.

It happens a lot when they want an FDA approval, or like you said, grant money.  And the people giving the grants control the data as well.   It is why my cousin and his partners left high paying jobs at a large pharmacuetical company in the 80's to start their own so that they could research what they wanted.   And they got FDA approval for 2 mRNA therapies that help a tiny number of people (ALS and some infant syndrome).   They were some of the first researchers to go the mRNA route.   But they needed money to keep doing their research so they hired out their labs and scientists to bigger companies that did not want to invest in the specialized equipment or genetic specialists.   They still had to do a fund raiser for the ALS therapy.  (in some ways I think they went to the "dark side" to get what they needed, like all scientists that aren't Tony Stark).

Edited by Desertrat56
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On 11/16/2022 at 7:19 PM, psyche101 said:

America's Frontline doctors are who need to be investigated. Abuse of the Hippocratic oath. Disbar them. 

The CDC controllers are the one's who need to be investigated.

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38 minutes ago, joc said:

The CDC controllers are the one's who need to be investigated.

These people outright lied, profited of those lies and misappropriated funds.

Don't think for a second they don't completely deserve being scrutinised. This action isn't half what they deserve. As I say, they all should have licenses removed. They took an oath and didn't uphold it. 

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Peak in Darien Reports

https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploads/sites/360/2017/01/OTH23_Peak-in-Darien-A-H.pdf

 

Quote

Much have I travell’d in the realms of gold,
And many goodly states and kingdoms seen;
Round many western islands have I been Which bards in fealty to Apollo hold.
Oft of one wide expanse had I been told
That deep-brow’d Homer ruled as his demesne; Yet never did I breathe its pure serene
Till I heard Chapman speak out loud and bold:Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
When a new planet swims into his ken;
Or like stout Cortez when with eagle eyes
He star’d at the Pacific—and all his men
Look’d at each other with a wild surmise – Silent, upon a peak in Darien.


—John Keats, On First Looking into Chapman’s Homer, 1817

Quote

The belief that, after the death of our physical body, our consciousness might persist in some discarnate form has been widely held in almost every culture. Although skeptics attribute such a belief to a fear of annihilation, it is fueled not only by our fears and wishes, but also more cogently by our experiences. Indeed, a wide variety of human experiences suggest to us that our conscious- ness may not cease when our bodies die.
Experiences that suggest postmortem survival include spontaneous visions of the deceased, particularly those involving interactive apparitions that com- municate and converse responsively with the experiencer and often occur around the time of death. Often the deceased spirit appears to convey some meaningful message to the experiencer. 

The Abrahamic religions don’t want you know about this.  Why? For one thing it would prove that the demon Yahweh is a liar and a deceiver. furthermore it would expose them as the liars they are and would put the Medical Industrial Complex, the Religious institutions, Academia, Lawyers and the Military, and more OUT OF BUSINESS.  

THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT

THE BEGINNING OF A NEW ONE

 

 



 

 

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15 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

It happens a lot when they want an FDA approval, or like you said, grant money.

I think any of them who aren't within a substantially funded institution are subject to "bending" their data just a bit.  The difference with Covid was many of them sold out and the repercussions of it are still being felt today.  My wife is an MD, in Pathology and she saw it happening even in her workplace.  Those who don't believe that, need only wait until the "next pandemic" rolls up on the world. 

Millions upon millions of Americans and others will laugh in their faces when they try to lock countries down and force people to stay in their homes.  Huge damage was done, IMO - INTENTIONALLY - as a result of government actions related to "keeping people safe".  Next time around, most folks in my part of the country will need to see people immediately around them, dropping like flies before they'll believe or obey CDC.  

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On 11/15/2022 at 6:12 PM, Marcus Thaddeus Horatio said:

Yes.. it often seems scientists portray themselves as the final authority on all things.. 

THIS^  They don't seem to have any self-awareness on this issue, either.  Myself, as a believer in the God of the Bible, freely admit that I can't explain how He does what He does but unlike the science worshippers, I actually try to approach my faith with an eye to seeing it unfold in the physical world in ways that confirm Biblical writ but also within the realm of science.  Those who mock even the concept of a Creator, have no compunction at giving credence to science on a level of faith.  I don't mock them nor do I feel the need to rail against them but they certainly have the habit of doing both of those things as a way to shout down the idea of faith.

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9 hours ago, and-then said:

THIS^  They don't seem to have any self-awareness on this issue, either.  Myself, as a believer in the God of the Bible, freely admit that I can't explain how He does what He does but unlike the science worshippers, I actually try to approach my faith with an eye to seeing it unfold in the physical world in ways that confirm Biblical writ but also within the realm of science.  Those who mock even the concept of a Creator, have no compunction at giving credence to science on a level of faith.  I don't mock them nor do I feel the need to rail against them but they certainly have the habit of doing both of those things as a way to shout down the idea of faith.

You make a good point, I see a lot of what I call "science acolytes", people who know very little science but believe it is the be all and end all, the law of the universe, when in fact it is just a very good set of tools to explore the universe and increase our knowledge of it.   We don't know everything, and no scientific "fact" is law and is only a "fact" until someone finds something else that nullifies that "fact" or explains it more throughly.    What people Knew scientifically 150 years ago has been proven incomplete or completely false.   Mostly because of bias, and ignoring what seems to be anomoulous data.

P.S. I don't believe in the God of the Bible, I think that is just as mind numbing as people making psuedo-science their religion.   But I do agree that science is not law any more than any religion is.

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/11/2022 at 10:12 AM, oldnatcole said:
On 9/11/2022 at 9:46 AM, joc said:

You are misunderstanding my point.  I am not 'diminishing' energy.  Energy is all that there really is.  Energy is not mind, any more than energy is a rock in a field...matter consists of energy...as I said, there is nothing static.  Electrons move around a nucleus creating matter. 

Because the electrons are always moving, because the galaxies are always in motion, because the planets and the moons are all moving, because light from the stars is always moving, because motion is constant throughout the universe there is no static point.  And that movement, that constant change we call  energy. 

How you can separate energy in the blowing of a leaf across a frozen pond to only being the mind I am not understanding.  It's all energy. 

What you are trying to say is that energy is conscious.    You do not know that energy has a conscious mind or that energy is a conscious mind.  That is unknowable.  Therefore, it is a belief system, which btw oldnatcole, I am not putting down or saying that your belief system is this or that.  I am only drawing a comparison between what is actually known, and what isn't.    Your beliefs are relevant only to how you choose to live your individual life.  No beliefs are relevant to the truth, because the truth just  is... regardless of belief.

Our consciousness is created by a process eloquently  described by @psyche101.  I still think you are attempting to say (without actually saying it) that Energy is Consciousness.    Be good with that.  Love it. Live it. It is who you are.  But it is not The Truth.  Because the only things  that we can say are actually the truth are those things that are provable and evidenced.  

Expand  

First. i have no belief system. i trust science. i trust what neuroscience said.

Hi Nate

Are you sure about that, you just made a comparison to Taoist beliefs?

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  • 7 months later...

This study is flawed. How can the researchers know for definite that awareness continues for twenty seconds after clinical death? How do you measure time in a private subjective experience and how can you be precise about when this subjective experience actually occurred? 

The NDE investigators shouldn't be allowed into hospices. It's unethical. 

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