Growth in UK NHS recruits from abroad prompts concern

[Eldorado]

The NHS in England is increasingly reliant on doctors and nurses recruited from outside the UK and EU, analysis has found.

Some 34% of doctors joining the health service last year came from overseas, a rise from 18% in 2014.

The government said overseas recruitment had always been part of its strategy.

But unions have warned it is an unsustainable way of recruiting in the long-term.

A total of 39,558 domestically trained doctors and nurses joined the NHS in 2020-21, which is just over 3,200 more than in 2014-15.

But UK medics have been occupying a decreasing proportion of the overall 1.35 million workforce during that period.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61230287

[Silver]

Immigration to Britain has not changed numerically since Brexit, it is just that now we take people from Africa and Asia rather than Europe. The main concerns are that we are robbing developing countries of skilled labour (example doctors and nurses), and also the new immigrants don't do unskilled work in agriculture, factories or airports, or semi-skilled work like HGV driving, depriving the UK of a needed workforce.

Interestingly, the British public no longer seem to see immigration as a concern, and no-one has satisfactorily explained this change in attitude.It may be just that Farage is no longer able to command public attention.

'Overall immigration numbers are broadly unchanged (after allowing for the pandemic) and there has been a rebalancing of immigrants away from Europe to arrivals in particular from India, Pakistan, Nigeria and the Philippines.

During the referendum campaign it was clear that many Leave voters saw EU citizens - people who had come from countries with traditions and values similar to the UK - as intolerably alien.

But at the same time Priti Patel was touring Britain's Indian, Pakistani and Bangla Deshi communities urging them to vote Leave because once there were fewer Europeans coming there would be more room for arrivals from those countries.

It is the loss of British citizens' freedom of movement that is the tragedy here, with the consequent reduction of opportunities and narrowing of horizons. That right and its benefits seemed not to register at all with Leave voters'.

[+ouija ouija]

2 hours ago, Eldorado said:

The government said overseas recruitment had always been part of its strategy.

 

^ ^ WHY? If nurses were paid properly there would be more than enough 'homegrown' nurses.

[+ouija ouija]

2 hours ago, Silver said:

 

Interestingly, the British public no longer seem to see immigration as a concern, and no-one has satisfactorily explained this change in attitude.

 

Where on Earth do you get that idea from?! It is simply that no-one is allowed to express their opinion on this matter anymore. If an attempt is made to do so, the cries of 'RACISM!' immediately drown them out.

[Silver]

18 hours ago, ouija ouija said:

Where on Earth do you get that idea from?! It is simply that no-one is allowed to express their opinion on this matter anymore. If an attempt is made to do so, the cries of 'RACISM!' immediately drown them out.

We didn't like people from our own continent, Europe, so now we have to seek increased immigration from the rest of the world:

 

[+ouija ouija]

5 hours ago, Silver said:

We didn't like people from our own continent, Europe, so now we have to seek increased immigration from the rest of the world:

 

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand what you're saying . I have a feeling you have been overthinking stuff.

[Silver]

49 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand what you're saying . I have a feeling you have been overthinking stuff.

What I am saying is, until Jan 2021 there was a general sentiment that the UK was taking too many immigrants (we are a small island, we will sink under the numbers, etc). Over the last 2 years, "legal" immigration has remained at the same level, it is just that now they are coming from more far-flung places than Europe.

According to a 2021 UK Parliament report in the House of Commons Library, the UK agricultural sector employed 467,000 people and contributes around £130 billion to the UK‘s economy. In the last two years (2019-21), about 99% of seasonal workers came from outside the UK.

Between 2019 and 2021, Ukrainians reportedly made up the overwhelming majority of those granted seasonal work visas (19,920). Russians accounted for 2,278, Bulgarians for 1,111, Belarusians for 1,007 and Tajiks for 980.

Now, recruiters in the sector say they are looking for workers from Kyrgyzstan, and Kazakhstan as well as Nepal, Indonesia and Vietnam.

Britain recruits migrant workers from new countries to pick fruit harvest - InfoMigrants

Now, this may sound racist, but it is not intended to be: My personal view is that I feel we in the UK have more in common, culturally and economically, with people from Europe, yet for some reason there was vociferous opposition to seasonal workers coming here from the EU, but no one complains when they are replaced with workers from Asia or Africa. I just find it strange.

I have read that it may be that we feel happier now we have taken back control of our borders, but that can't be the complete answer as there is still considerable complaints about the people crossing the Channel in boats. We can't be more in control of our borders than we are at present, we have complete control, free of EU law, and we have a new immigration policy that replaced FOM.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Silver

[+ouija ouija]

@Silver Firstly, I don't know why we can't recruit seasonal workers from from Britain. Oh wait! the conditions are poor and the wages rubbish.

* I suppose it's obvious why we don't have workers from Ukraine at the moment, but I'm puzzled as to why they made up the biggest proportion of foreign labour. 

* Who makes the decision as to which countries we recruit from?

* What 'vociferous opposition to seasonal workers coming here from the EU' are you talking about?

* Again, who is going to speak out against Asians and Africans?

* WHO feels happier 'now that we have taken back control of our borders'?! Everybody knows the border situation is worse than it ever was!

We seem to be living in different worlds!

[Silver]

3 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

@Silver Firstly, I don't know why we can't recruit seasonal workers from from Britain. Oh wait! the conditions are poor and the wages rubbish.

* I suppose it's obvious why we don't have workers from Ukraine at the moment, but I'm puzzled as to why they made up the biggest proportion of foreign labour. 

* Who makes the decision as to which countries we recruit from?

* What 'vociferous opposition to seasonal workers coming here from the EU' are you talking about?

* Again, who is going to speak out against Asians and Africans?

* WHO feels happier 'now that we have taken back control of our borders'?! Everybody knows the border situation is worse than it ever was!

We seem to be living in different worlds!

Who makes the decision as to which countries we recruit from? The UK government, acting on behalf of the UK people as we are a representative democracy.

What 'vociferous opposition to seasonal workers coming here from the EU' are you talking about? Again, the UK government has imposed severe restrictions on EU seasonal workers, acting on behalf of the people, who wanted an end to FOM.

Again, who is going to speak out against Asians and Africans? No one it seems, which surprises me.

WHO feels happier 'now that we have taken back control of our borders'? Most people, I suppose. Like I say, immigration (apart from the Channel crossings) has fallen from the national agenda. You must admit, it was a huge issue a couple of years ago, MPs arguing on Question Time and in news programs.

I usually agree with you on things, ouija ouija, so I'm not arguing with you.  I was just responding to Eldorado's original post: "The NHS in England is increasingly reliant on doctors and nurses recruited from outside the UK and EU, analysis has found".  I was just expressing my general surprise than no one is arguing against that, when people were jumping up and down about EU nationals working here.

 

[+ouija ouija]

@Silver I'm not arguing either, I'm just confused as to how you come to the conclusions you do. I'm not joking when I say we seem to be living in very different worlds.

[Silver]

On 8/7/2022 at 3:25 PM, ouija ouija said:

@Silver I'm not arguing either, I'm just confused as to how you come to the conclusions you do. I'm not joking when I say we seem to be living in very different worlds.

I suppose what really puzzles me is that Brexiters proudly say "we won, you lost, get over it", when it seems the only thing we have "won" is changing our immigration policy to accepting people from outside Europe. Apart from taking away from ourselves freedom of movement in our own continent; stopping our muscians, artists and professionals from travelling in the EU; having longer border queues when we go on holiday and having to pay roaming charges;making it more difficult and expensive to import and export; damaging our relations with other European countries; and losing the ability to return the boat people who cross the Channel, all we have gained is exchanging European immigrants for Asian ones. Maybe that is what Brexit was all about, the UK becoming Global, but call me a little Englander, but I preferred the UK being more closely aligned with Europe. 

Health Secretary Steve Barclay plans to boost staffing in the NHS and care sector by driving recruitment from countries such as India, Sri Lanka and the Phillipines.

Mr Barclay revealed he had instructed civil servants to “work at pace” on the proposals to meet the extra demand that is expected to come this winter.

Steve Barclay tells care sector to hire workers rejected from the NHS for not speaking good enough English (msn.com)

Edited August 8, 2022 by Silver

[+Desertrat56]

On 8/6/2022 at 3:15 AM, Eldorado said:

The NHS in England is increasingly reliant on doctors and nurses recruited from outside the UK and EU, analysis has found.

Some 34% of doctors joining the health service last year came from overseas, a rise from 18% in 2014.

The government said overseas recruitment had always been part of its strategy.

But unions have warned it is an unsustainable way of recruiting in the long-term.

A total of 39,558 domestically trained doctors and nurses joined the NHS in 2020-21, which is just over 3,200 more than in 2014-15.

But UK medics have been occupying a decreasing proportion of the overall 1.35 million workforce during that period.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61230287

We have a similar problem in the U.S. for different reasons.  No one can afford to go to medical school, or if they can get financing they don't want to deal with all the rules, lawsuits, insurance, etc.   We have such a shortage in the rural parts of the country (including the whole state of New Mexico) that we have to depend on Nurse Practitioners and Physicians Assistants, and there is still a shortage to the extent that it takes months to get an appointment with a primary care practitioner.   They have online doctor visits, which seems idiotic if it is a rash or something you can't show properly on video.  But the insurance companies are encouraging us to use video visits.   And then we have huge bills either just to have insurance or because we can't afford anything but high deductible insurance (which means everything is out of pocket until you reach your deductible).   It is no wonder so many people have been going to alternative medicine and psuedo science for health care.   Acupuncture, some versions of chiropractic, and herbs can help a lot of stuff but they don't cover everything.

[Eldorado]

The UK is recruiting too many people from overseas into the NHS, Sir Keir Starmer has said.

The Labour leader argued immigration was not the solution to a staffing crisis as he called for more recruitment from within the UK.

Scotland's SNP government is spending £8m on hiring 750 nurses and midwives from overseas this winter.

In England, 34% of doctors joining the health service last year came from overseas - up from 18% in 2014.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63526167