the13bats Posted August 17, 2022 #101 Share Posted August 17, 2022 On 8/15/2022 at 11:25 PM, Will Due said: That's right, a true skeptic is "open-minded". It's how the denial of reality is justified And just which reality are you talking about? 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 17, 2022 #102 Share Posted August 17, 2022 57 minutes ago, the13bats said: And just which reality are you talking about? the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them. "he refuses to face reality" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripGun Posted August 18, 2022 #103 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Should call this site explained-mysteries.com 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted August 19, 2022 #104 Share Posted August 19, 2022 On 8/17/2022 at 5:23 AM, Will Due said: "he refuses to face reality" Hi Will The lives other people and the conditions they live in is also part of that reality. I see many examples of people not accepting those parts of reality every time I long into this forum and I am not talking about Bigfoot or alien forums. Political and religious threads are great examples of how some ignore the conditions people grew up in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 20, 2022 #105 Share Posted August 20, 2022 14 hours ago, jmccr8 said: Political and religious threads are great examples of how some ignore the conditions people grew up in. But it's also true that because of the conditions grown up in, some people decide to maintain an attitude of life-ling resentment while ignoring the opportunity to make highly significant decisions in resolution to the debilitating effects of holding a grudge. https://www.foxnews.com/us/chowchilla-school-bus-hijacking-victim-credits-kidnappers-his-lifes-victories-has-met-all-3-person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted August 20, 2022 #106 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Will Due said: But it's also true that because of the conditions grown up in, some people decide to maintain an attitude of life-ling resentment while ignoring the opportunity to make highly significant decisions in resolution to the debilitating effects of holding a grudge. https://www.foxnews.com/us/chowchilla-school-bus-hijacking-victim-credits-kidnappers-his-lifes-victories-has-met-all-3-person Hi Will Yes people react differently which is why I said some people and not all people. I don’t hold grudges but am always wary of people and that is environmental 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 20, 2022 #107 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 minute ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Will Yes people react differently which is why I said some people and not all people. I don’t hold grudges but am always wary of people and that is environmental Yes, I also said some people and not all people. But I would also like to make a distinction. A grudge can be held against other things besides people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted August 20, 2022 #108 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Will Due said: Yes, I also said some people and not all people. But I would also like to make a distinction. A grudge can be held against other things besides people. Hi Will Not sure I ever met anyone that had a grudge about anything other than other people, could you give and example? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 20, 2022 #109 Share Posted August 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Will Not sure I ever met anyone that had a grudge about anything other than other people, could you give and example? Fate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted August 20, 2022 #110 Share Posted August 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, Will Due said: Fate Hi Will People have a grudge over fate? How does that work? 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 20, 2022 #111 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 hour ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Will People have a grudge over fate? How does that work? You've got to be kidding Jay. Fate is the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power. In other words, God. I'm not saying this about you but how many times have you seen posters express what amounts to a grudge against God because He allows pain and suffering, illness, and all kinds of things that people don't like and would do different if they were the one in charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted August 20, 2022 #112 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Will Due said: You've got to be kidding Jay. Fate is the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power. In other words, God. I'm not saying this about you but how many times have you seen posters express what amounts to a grudge against God because He allows pain and suffering, illness, and all kinds of things that people don't like and would do different if they were the one in charge? Hi Will What you have described is a grudge against god and other people that they are the blame for their fate. I don’t have a grudge against a god that I don’t know exists nor do I bother myself with grudges against people. I did when I was younger many decades ago blamed some people and grew up. I can chose to make what choices I do and that includes understanding consequence and allowing influence. Fate is about how we react to influences nothing is predetermined unless you chose to believe it was. Fate is a word for romantic novels and has no place in my life . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 20, 2022 #113 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 hour ago, jmccr8 said: Fate is a word for romantic novels and has no place in my life . If nothing has developed in your life beyond your control, you would be the most unique person who has ever lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted August 20, 2022 #114 Share Posted August 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, Will Due said: If nothing has developed in your life beyond your control, you would be the most unique person who has ever lived. Hi Will Yes there are things that develop beyond my control. That doesn’t mean I have to let it control me as many times it boils down to perception and how I react. There is no grudge or fate in those situations as far as I am concerned as I will do what I have to to move on in life that is my nature. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 20, 2022 #115 Share Posted August 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: I will do what I have to to move on in life that is my nature. Okay. Good to hear. Just curious. Did you read the article I linked earlier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted August 20, 2022 #116 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Will Due said: Okay. Good to hear. Just curious. Did you read the article I linked earlier? Hi Will Yes I did read the link what he did was his choice and each of us gets to chose how things affect us as individuals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted August 20, 2022 #117 Share Posted August 20, 2022 "There is no such thing as luck (or fate) there is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe." R.A. Heinlein 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 20, 2022 #118 Share Posted August 20, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Will Yes I did read the link what he did was his choice and each of us gets to chose how things affect us as individuals. Yes we get to choose but not about those things that occur that we have no control over which are commonly referred to as "acts of God". Sometimes these are things that people end up holding a grudge against God for. But like the kid who held a grudge against his kidnappers back in '76 it wasn't until he finally realized it was just a matter of choice to not allow circumstances beyond his control to enslave him with an attitude that would eventually destroy his life. And that's why I think he thanked his kidnappers. Because without them doing what they did, he may never have come to realize how significant his choices are. Edited August 20, 2022 by Will Due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted August 20, 2022 #119 Share Posted August 20, 2022 Why hold a grudge against God, who, according to belief, created life and the universe? If one believes in a creator, who created this perfectly natural universe, that creator owes man nothing, but man owes the creator his existence. Man fancies himself a special creation, but perhaps no more special, maybe even less, than similar creations throughout the cosmos. Human theologies are always homocentric. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 20, 2022 #120 Share Posted August 20, 2022 (edited) While it's as simple as just stopping it, holding a grudge towards God may just be the most prolific and widespread grudge holding event in the lives of many people. Edited August 20, 2022 by Will Due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted August 20, 2022 #121 Share Posted August 20, 2022 17 minutes ago, Will Due said: Yes we get to choose but not about those things that occur that we have no control over which are commonly referred to as "acts of God". Sometimes these are things that people end up holding a grudge against God for. But like the kid who held a grudge against his kidnappers back in '76 it wasn't until he finally realized it was just a matter of choice to not allow circumstances beyond his control to enslave him with an attitude that would eventually destroy his life. And that's why I think he thanked his kidnappers. Because without them doing what they did, he may never have come to realize how significant his choices are. Hi Will If I do not know if a god exists then acts of god are equally subjective so personally I don’t see cause to assign blame to something that has no credible influence. You can chose to believe what you will as it is your choice which is fine. He made his choice just like you or I do, his choice was about his life. I likely would understand but wouldn’t bother with meeting them which is my personal choice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 20, 2022 #122 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 minute ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Will If I do not know if a god exists then acts of god are equally subjective so personally I don’t see cause to assign blame to something that has no credible influence. You can chose to believe what you will as it is your choice which is fine. He made his choice just like you or I do, his choice was about his life. I likely would understand but wouldn’t bother with meeting them which is my personal choice. Yeah that might be why he ended up in a news article. I think many people end up realizing how detrimental it is to themselves to maintain a grudge of any kind. In the case like his I think most people would just stop holding the grudge without going any further to take steps to meet the person or persons who committed crimes against them. But in a way I can understand doing such a thing. It might help in the healing process if it isn't done to be spiteful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Festina Posted October 12, 2022 #123 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) On 8/8/2022 at 9:30 AM, Desertrat56 said: I met a woman who had a 2 year old and she had an NDE and was angry that she had to come back. It had been a year and she was still angry. I felt bad for her husband and child. I’ve read about 5,000 NDEs over the past ten years online and in several books that were not all about NDEs. I would say abut 95% percent of the “resurrected” didn’t want to come back and many were angry at their medical professionals for bringing them back — some had small children. I’d say about 20% maybe less of the experiencers were either atheist or agnostic going in and atheist and agnostic coming out. I found this most interesting. And there were a good amount who lost their religion altogether as well. One recent story of a atheist woman who died said she met her spirit guide and he is still with her. She named him Howard, “ Our father who art in heaven, Howard be thy name”, and says he doesn’t seem to mind. I read somewhere not too long ago a quote from a philosopher of old but I don’t remember his name. It went something like this “If mankind knew the truth about life and death there would be nations of suicides”. I don’t agree with him though as it seems to me if mankind knew there was no death they would live more fulfilling lives. Death comes soon enough. This being said most attempted suicides (I’d guess about 2 or 3% ) are HAPPY they came back and are no longer suicidal or depressed. Edited October 12, 2022 by Festina 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted October 12, 2022 #124 Share Posted October 12, 2022 On 8/20/2022 at 6:44 PM, Hammerclaw said: Why hold a grudge against God, who, according to belief, created life and the universe? If one believes in a creator, who created this perfectly natural universe, that creator owes man nothing, but man owes the creator his existence. A point that's generally tough to argue with, but some of the themes of Frankenstein come to mind as far as potential responsibility of creators: "Accursed creator! Why did you form a monster so hideous that even you turned from me in disgust? God, in pity, made man beautiful and alluring, after his own image; but my form is a filthy type of yours, more horrid even from the very resemblance. Satan had his companions, fellow devils, to admire and encourage him, but I am solitary and abhorred." Truly one of the saddest and most tragic characters ever (Shelley's Creature obviously, not Karloff's). 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted October 12, 2022 #125 Share Posted October 12, 2022 37 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said: A point that's generally tough to argue with, but some of the themes of Frankenstein come to mind as far as potential responsibility of creators: "Accursed creator! Why did you form a monster so hideous that even you turned from me in disgust? God, in pity, made man beautiful and alluring, after his own image; but my form is a filthy type of yours, more horrid even from the very resemblance. Satan had his companions, fellow devils, to admire and encourage him, but I am solitary and abhorred." Truly one of the saddest and most tragic characters ever (Shelley's Creature obviously, not Karloff's). "What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable! In action, how like an angel, in apprehension, how like a god! The beauty of the world! The paragon of animals!" Hamlet Shakespeare Truly a masterpiece of irony about a quintessence of dust. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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