My 2nd Mandela Effect experience

[papageorge1]

8 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Because she's hot and gets attention?

Doesn't explain the braces in the commercial we were discussing.

[papageorge1]

29 minutes ago, OverSword said:

  Now people can do a lot of things with computers to old movies and I'm going to guess that if anyone goes on NetFlix or Paramount plus and streams this movie those braces will be there.

I hope you are willing to bet a large quantity of money on that as I'll take the bet. This Mandela Effect has been way researched beyond that level.

[+Liquid Gardens]

16 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I'm sure I'm not mistaken about this one as the entire point of the scene was the cute joke of braces.

That's what I thought/felt also, and why I think I'm mixing it up with something similar.

 

[zep73]

40 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I'm going to guess that if anyone goes on NetFlix or Paramount plus and streams this movie those braces will be there.

I got a copy of the movie, and made this capture:

[+OverSword]

Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

That's what I thought/felt also, and why I think I'm mixing it up with something similar.

 

Yep. The people at Drax meant to repopulate the world were all perfect and beautiful except Jaws and Dolly who it turned out had no place in the new order.  She was a nerd with glasses, pigtails and braces.  A less than perfect and beautiful person.  This is either a far reaching hoax or I believe it.  But I'm sure the braces were there.

[+OverSword]

4 minutes ago, zep73 said:

I got a copy of the movie, and made this capture:

Can you do a different capture.  This is the exact same "capture" that comes up when you google it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWjgZpDUEAIORuA.jpg:large  Here is the link

Edited August 10, 2022 by OverSword

[+Liquid Gardens]

11 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Another theory: Someone made a hoax commercial

I think it is that someone picked up the already altered video on youtube and included it in the commercial.  I realize there is only so much variability in braces, but the scene in this foreign commercial with Dolly and her braces looks exactly like this one to me:

..which includes the note: "The footage has been edited with visual effects by Romthirty VFX.".

[+OverSword]

7 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I think it is that someone picked up the already altered video on youtube and included it in the commercial. 

That commercial looks pretty old so I think wouldn't have been made according to internet Mandela videos.  But could arguably just be a play on the Jaws character and not necessarily that scene with Dolly.

[papageorge1]

4 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I think it is that someone picked up the already altered video on youtube and included it in the commercial.  I realize there is only so much variability in braces, but the scene in this foreign commercial with Dolly and her braces looks exactly like this one to me:

..which includes the note: "The footage has been edited with visual effects by Romthirty VFX.".

If you notice a few posts down the idea that they used the braces edited-in version comes to mind. But why would a commercial for braces want to choose that if it wasn't considered an iconic memory in favor of braces.

Then there is the possibility that whole video I supplied was edited for a Mandela Effect gag but it is imbedded in quickly to so much other content that.....????

 

[acute]

The Mandela Effect is very interesting.

I clearly remember Dolly being a sheep.

[Dreamer screamer]

So all those copies of VHS and dvd's in peoples homes have all been changed to no braces.  

[+OverSword]

Quizzing people in my office and those who saw it remember her having braces too.  Mandela effect or memory error, either way there is a lot of people that remember the braces.

[the13bats]

1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I'm very familiar with Jaws (the movie, not the Bond villain) and I think it might be a good example of what has been suggested by myself and others that the act of finding out these things within the context of reading about MEs may be influencing our reaction to it.  I saw Jaws at the theater too when I was way too young to see something that scary.  There are two scenes the last time I watched it with Chrissy's remains: where they are discovered on the beach (they show a hand sticking up and some hair and a bunch of crabs), and then during Hooper's examination they are mostly behind a sheet or out of view but at what point Hooper lifts her dismembered arm up in view.  I don't recall this last scene from my original viewing and only 'noticed' it later.

Now, if I hadn't seen Jaws since I was a kid and was reading about MEs and someone said, "I know that there was no scene where Hooper showed Chrissy's severed arm", then I can't say that this wouldn't have triggered an ME experience and the corresponding feeling, as opposed to what I actually did was just shrug it off as something I misremembered or didn't remember.

I havent seen anyone call the hooper scene a ME i included my experence because it shows how flawed memory can be and is, perhaps re read my post about it,

Im very OCD and not because i thought i found a glitch in the matrix but rather because i am a huge jaws fan i did a lot of research on this, there was even a fan created prop of what Chrissys remains would have looked like but evidence to support hooper ever showed more of chrissy than an arm in the film is about equally devided that he didnt.

Another problem is fact vs opinion in hunting movie trivia, one site stated that because of budget and time that the scene on the beach thats a real actress arm and the way its framed it could be, but zero to support that was fact not opinion a problem with movie fan sites is someone always knew some uncles friends niece who worked with a person on the film so what they post is fact.

When hooper starts to lift the arm in the morgue scene its attached to something,  at this point i could see myself running into richard dryfus and kindly asking him if more was in that tub to have him give me that look and say i dont remember. Lol.

What i found interesting on fan sites they were more into arguing the deleted dialogue and if 10 people chimed in each heard a different version. Again its about failed memory not tangent universes.

[Duke Wellington]

12 hours ago, Arbenol said:

I wonder what they were distracted by

In all fairness it was the first thing I looked at lmao.

[the13bats]

23 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

So all those copies of VHS and dvd's in peoples homes have all been changed to no braces.  

Idk i havent seen all those copies have you?

 

23 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Quizzing people in my office and those who saw it remember her having braces too.  Mandela effect or memory error, either way there is a lot of people that remember the braces.

Right, because as i said before she should have had braces, plus when you ask a person "was dolly wearing braces" you just salted the responses.

It would be fun to do a screening of moonraker to say a college class then afterwards issues a test of 50 or so questions ask things like how many teeth did Jaws have? And how many times did moore appear in a white shirt, how many girls did he kiss?

Then some vauge question like describe jaws love interest, see how many include braces and how many do not.

Dont mention ME

 

[Duke Wellington]

14 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I've jousted with @papageorge1several times here on the subject of the Mandela Effect and I definitely take a very skeptical approach as far as the explanations for them.  Last night I had the second 'Mandela Effect' ever (my first was Berenstain Bears) and since I have almost no 'Unexplained Mysteries'-type experiences to ever talk about I thought I'd post about it and my analysis while it is still pretty fresh.

The ME is very esoteric I think, it concerns a scene in the James Bond movie Moonraker with the villain Jaws and a love interest he finds in this movie, Dolly.  The first 30 seconds of this video (I have not watched the rest of it), shows the scene:

I 'remember' Dolly having braces in this scene, and finding out she didn't last night triggered a Mandela Effect, a stronger one than my previous Berenstain Bears ME.  It's tough to perfectly define an ME and I've always focused on the commonality of the false memory as being an essential component which it is, but now I'm thinking more about the 'feeling' aspect.  The most important point that differentiated this from a more run-of-the-mill false memory I may have and shrug about is how it felt, It felt like something was wrong or had changed, presumably linked to a feeling about how certain I felt about the accuracy of this memory.  It even had me pondering if this wasn't a false memory what kind of UM-type scenario would explain it.  Last night I tried to analyze it as closely as I could since I was already familiar with MEs so tried to get as much insight as possible while I was in the act of experiencing it.

• Skeptical note number 1 of a billion:  like we have discussed before as a possible pollutant to what may otherwise be regarded as just false memories, this occurred within the context of me reading an article about the Mandela Effect on boingboing, I believe it concerned a study on visual MEs that papa had linked to earlier.  In the comments someone mentioned at the end of a skeptical comment, "But I know I thought it was nice Jaws found someone like him when Dolly smiled and revealed a mouth full of braces in Moonraker."  It took me a bit to parse and understand that and 'remember' it and my first response was 'no way...' because of how certain I felt in that moment that Dolly had braces.  I looked it up and found out she didn't, and had that 'feeling' that something weird was up.

• Even if you are not familiar with the movie, if you are semi-familiar with the character of Jaws (imposing giant nemesis of James Bond (sometimes) with a metal grill for teeth), the scene would work so perfectly if she revealed braces on her teeth, and since it's such a point of connection between the two from an ME perspective to remove that connection removes a major part of the point of the scene, and I think enhances the ME.  It seems like the build-up to her smile is priming you for a surprise but I'm not sure that this expectation isn't something more recent, I think this being the 70s the surprise was only that she liked him, almost a la Beauty and the Beast.
• Unlike some MEs where you have the possibility of misspellings or knock-off products that fulfill the ME (cornucopias, Beren'stein'), there is no question of there being another version of this with braces, the actress who played Dolly said there never were any it was not even discussed I believe.
• One of the more interesting explanations for what goes on sometimes from a psychological standpoint are schemas we create in our mind.  Dolly with her glasses and pigtails, at least in the late 70s when the movie came out, kinda fit the 'nerd girl' stereotype, and obviously in that schema braces would fit well.  Actually a less common ME concerning this scene is that she was less sexualized, I also didn't remember her, ahh, let's just say ample cleavage, and that also fits in with the 'nerd girl' stereotype that may be affecting the memory.

When I was trying to analyze the 'feeling of certainty' part of the ME it had me wondering about something else I have always pondered, namely the extent to which feelings produce thoughts.  In my only other UM-ish experience, sleep paralysis, my first experience with it had thought content that came with the paralysis, there were burglars or something evil/dangerous in the house while I couldn't move, and others commonly reference demons sitting on their chest or aliens.  Nowadays when I have sleep paralysis, knowing the very logical explanation for it, that feeling of an invading evil is gone.  I think something similar is happening with MEs, there is something about them that produces a feeling that something is extra off. 

But the more I think about it, the more I don't think the feeling has anything to do with reality.  Ultimately I think it comes down to my brain getting confused about how well it remembers something, most people have already had a weird memory-based feeling with deja-vu and this seemed related.  I haven't really thought much about the kinda common phrase, 'I feel certain', and what certainty is. The strongest skeptical points against something UM with this are that it meets so many conditions under which you'd expect to have a false memory.  Last time I recall seeing Moonraker was when I was a kid seeing it at the theater when it came out, possibly twice.  Ask me two days ago what I can remember about the film it would be Roger Moore, Jaws, a space shuttle getting stolen off the back of a 747 I think in the beginning, that it is a kinda dumb goofy movie, and that's it.  I 'remember' Dolly now only because this ME was brought to my attention, and I have a vague memory of this scene but still cannot remember any others. 

There are some things though that make me go hmmm.  So what happened?  I couldn't really tell as it was happening, I was trying to get a handle on if this memory had just been created when I read about it last night but that's impossible to do when all you have is a possibly false memory to go on.  I know psychologists say that memory is altered every time you access it, but this is the opposite where it was a memory sitting dormant since potentially 1979 un-accessed, which I think is even more suspect. What I more strongly have is the feeling that I've seen this particular 'plot gimmick' or whatever it's called before, in a similar scene where two people connect when I think a girl reveals that she has braces or whatever thing too that the guy is self-conscious about.  I watched a crap-ton of tv it seems when I was a kid, I'm holding out that there is a similar scene that I'm crossing this with.  If though there really isn't any good precedent for this scene (I guess antecedent would work too), it is weird to then think that this obviously good idea that thematically produces more of a connection between the characters in a clever way, a genuinely creative idea that would work so well, that the creative origin for it is an ME?

Something odd and unknown by physics is going on.

I dont know if its extra dimensions, or reality being plastic, but I too have MEs. I`ve had other experiences too. I`ve had the one of crossing over a road, stopping in the road as a car past, walking to the curb, looking around to see the car and there was just empty road off into the distance. There were no turn offs, no house drives it could have gone up, no anything.

[the13bats]

As far as ME,  a while back when it came up i was rooting around and found a list that wasnt crying ME just things remembered wrong in movies,

Oddly the writer lists people recall Hannibal feeding the cop bites of his own brain but that never happened in the film, i jumped to youtube and found it quickly so who can we trust and believe?

Its like papa insits rich simmons wore a headband he didnt but should have it was an expected accessory of work out people of the cheesy 80s.

[zep73]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Can you do a different capture.  This is the exact same "capture" that comes up when you google it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWjgZpDUEAIORuA.jpg:large  Here is the link

I chose the one where her lips were furthest apart, but here's a few others

[Mattacaster]

I remember Dolly having braces. But... It wasn't from an officially released VHS or DVD or Blu Ray or laser disc or anything like that. It was when it was broadcast on TV when I was a kid, when they would edit movies for time and content. My dad is a huge Bond fan but we didn't own any movies. He would record them off of TV. Could it have been a slightly different version than officially released?

I told my brother about a time watching Jaws 2 (again off of broadcast TV when I was a kid). The police copter that comes out to rescue the kids and gets attacked by Jaws. This version however shows extra footage of Jaws attacking the copper chopper from under water, not just from an aerial view. But that shot is not included on my DVD box set. My bro says that sometimes they shoot extra footage to be used in edited versions of the film (back in the day at least). Which makes sense. I mean how much extra footage is in the LOTR extended cuts? But I digress. 

Back to the other Jaws. Could they have filmed 2 or more versions of this scene, with and without braces? I know according to the embedded video above that the actress denies every having braces used in the filming. But that was what? 40-50 years ago? Who remembers everything? Am I having a Mandela effect about Jaws 2, too? I'm going to say “no”.

[Dreamer screamer]

34 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Idk i havent seen all those copies have you?

Nope, but guarenteed they will all be braceless.   It is how it works.

 

[zep73]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Can you do a different capture.  This is the exact same "capture" that comes up when you google it.

I even made you a gif

https://imgur.com/a/6EnMrJv

Backup: https://ibb.co/9nNqtLK

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by zep73

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, Mattacaster said:

Back to the other Jaws. Could they have filmed 2 or more versions of this scene, with and without braces? I know according to the embedded video above that the actress denies every having braces used in the filming. But that was what? 40-50 years ago? Who remembers everything?

Exactly, but shouldn't that 'who remembers everything' be applied to us, the people who think they remember accurately a less than 30-second sequence in a 40 year old movie as opposed to the person who was there and had to spend much more time on the scene?  The reason I don't think there are two versions is that the way the scene is now is perfect except there are no braces, the scene even kinda sets you up like there's going to be a big reveal the way she finally smiles.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Liquid Gardens

[+Liquid Gardens]

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

But why would a commercial for braces want to choose that if it wasn't considered an iconic memory in favor of braces.

I'd guess because maybe many people misremember this, I think it's an example of what you, to me, misrepresent as 'residue', which seems to be mostly just people on video saying or doing something because they misremember.  For that matter, why would the ME not change this commercial but change every VHS and DVD copy in the world?  More importantly, if the scene in this commercial were actually from a pre-reality-change Moonraker that had the braces, then why does the edited version that someone made in this reality look to match the braces pretty much exactly?

 

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

I dont know if its extra dimensions, or reality being plastic, but I too have MEs. I`ve had other experiences too. I`ve had the one of crossing over a road, stopping in the road as a car past, walking to the curb, looking around to see the car and there was just empty road off into the distance. There were no turn offs, no house drives it could have gone up, no anything.

I am on another forum and for terminology sake people generally refer to your car/rode experience as a 'Glitch in the Matrix' experience and not the Mandela Effect as you were the only one affected.  

"Glitch in the Matrix' is bound to come up here as another fascinating thread. This stuff is right up the alley for a forum called Unexplained Mysteries. 

The 'Mandela Effect' term is for a mass glitch. 

[papageorge1]

8 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I'd guess because maybe many people misremember this, I think it's an example of what you, to me, misrepresent as 'residue', which seems to be mostly just people on video saying or doing something because they misremember.  For that matter, why would the ME not change this commercial but change every VHS and DVD copy in the world?  More importantly, if the scene in this commercial were actually from a pre-reality-change Moonraker that had the braces, then why does the edited version that someone made in this reality look to match the braces pretty much exactly?

 

Right, what we really need is to get the maker of this commercial to explain how/what/why and I doubt he is a UM poster. Although such a person is probably still available for a very earnest researcher.

And that strong of an association between Dolly and braces to the extent that it is iconic is becoming very hard to explain-away as a collection of confusion (although not impossible, so we are in a never-ending consideration about an inherently unprovable Effect). But with all these strong cases in cumulative, I just can't believe this can ever be all put back in the old box. We need a bigger box that makes reality bigger, in my opinion. But I can't define the bigger boarders of the new box very well, 

Just a thought: Maybe the intelligences to be tell us this big scary looking thing (the Mandela Effect) is not as scary as it looks but something we can embrace (like Dolly for the seemingly scary looking guy). Criticism allowed,

This is on the order of Flintstones (Stone Age) flipping to Flinstones (Newer Age) with symbolism for those thinking.