‘Hunter Biden’s Laptop’ Is Not a Rational Defense of Trump at This Moment

[Grim Reaper 6]

To look in some corners of the conservative movement this week has been like visiting an alternative universe, one in which a politicized FBI and Justice Department have become hellbent on unfairly persecutingformer President Donald Trump after turning a blind eye to Hunter Biden’s laptop and Hillary Clinton’s missing emails. But rather than debate the merits of the case as they are known so far, some Trump allies seized on the highly unusual—but not unheard of—nature of a presidential administration probing the conduct of the previous commander in chief.

In quick turn, many decided a galling double standard was at play, given how the FBI investigated—and cleared—Clinton for how she handled her email system as Secretary of State, and how the probe facing Hunter Biden, the President’s son and the potential subject of a tax case, is seemingly progressing at a glacial pace.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/hunter-biden-s-laptop-is-not-a-rational-defense-of-trump-at-this-moment/ar-AA10wQ2a?cvid=1aa43751449745f4b2c46e7b721ed893

[the13bats]

Grim, you know as well as anyone trumps go to is blame others and whatabout and lies he taught his subjects to defend him by all means so no shock they will point at everything except the fact don might have broken the law.

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, the13bats said:

Grim, you know as well as anyone trumps go to is blame others and whatabout and lies he taught his subjects to defend him by all means so no shock they will point at everything except the fact don might have broken the law.

I certainly do my brother Bats however its not only Trump like you said above its the true believers who are so far into denial they are unable to even consider the possibility their leader is wrong. I will add that when I what a documentary on WWII and I see the Germans foaming at the mouths as Adolf Hitlers car comes near it certainly reminds of some of this forum members, who have put their beliefs in his hands, that allow him along with the conservative media to dictate to them what to think, and worst they would allow any man to us our Nation u=in the manner he did, I mean what the hell are they thinking after all that has happened.

Now, one  thing I must be very clear about is the fact that my comments are general in nature and they certainly do not apply to all conservatives here on this forum or across the United States. But, those who my comments do apply to are aware to whom my comments were directed because their know how their actions identify them and to all other disregard my comments!

Peace batman!!

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

7 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

To look in some corners of the conservative movement this week has been like visiting an alternative universe, one in which a politicized FBI and Justice Department have become hellbent on unfairly persecutingformer President Donald Trump after turning a blind eye to Hunter Biden’s laptop and Hillary Clinton’s missing emails. But rather than debate the merits of the case as they are known so far, some Trump allies seized on the highly unusual—but not unheard of—nature of a presidential administration probing the conduct of the previous commander in chief.

In quick turn, many decided a galling double standard was at play, given how the FBI investigated—and cleared—Clinton for how she handled her email system as Secretary of State, and how the probe facing Hunter Biden, the President’s son and the potential subject of a tax case, is seemingly progressing at a glacial pace.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/hunter-biden-s-laptop-is-not-a-rational-defense-of-trump-at-this-moment/ar-AA10wQ2a?cvid=1aa43751449745f4b2c46e7b721ed893

You were expecting rationality from the Trumplings?

[Grim Reaper 6]

Just now, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

You were expecting rationality from the Trumplings?

No I don’t expect anything from them, but I am worried about them  because when Trump gets prosecuted and found guilty their entire world is going collapse!  

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

52 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

No I don’t expect anything from them, but I am worried about them  because when Trump gets prosecuted and found guilty their entire world is going collapse!  

Not to AT the thread… it’ll be war.

[psyche101]

Neither of Hillary, Bill or any other president used as comparison 

Retrumplicans seem to think whataboutism is a valid argument. It's not. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

57 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Not to AT the thread… it’ll be war.

No it will not be war, have you ever been diving 100 mile per-hour and had a large bug hit the the Windshield well that what will happen to any of Trumps Right-Winged friends that come a long!!

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Neither of Hillary, Bill or any other president used as comparison 

Retrumplicans seem to think whataboutism is a valid argument. It's not. 

Your right they do not. and the reason for that is because that's their only argument. When an article like this is posted or when the 5 JAN Committee finds some new damming information about Trump ( Like every day  ) the first thing they say is OH!!! Dam OBAMa did this, and BIDEN did that, they cant do that to Trump!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now its obvious that DOJ has a informant who dropped a dime on Trump for not turning in all the classified documents he took from the White House when left or they would never had exercised that search warrant on Mar-A-Largo.

I can also say with confidence that they did find what they were looking for. However, now one thing is for certain the DOJ is going to arrest and prosecute him, before it was questionable whether he would be prosecuted or not, but now it's pretty dam obvious. I mean what was the FBI suppose to do, tell Trump they are going to execute a Search Warrant and give him time to dispose of evidence?

Then the very next day, they walk up to Representative Perry and take his Cell Phone. The same thing here they knew that there was information on his phone, the question is how. Now he is whining like a baby because he was not notified in advance, well screw him he was involved in the fake electoral vote scam and he was also one of the Conspiracy Theorists involved in the stolen election lie.

All I can say is I have no sympathy either one of them or the others who are also going to be prosecuted, one thing Trump doesn't have to protect him in this cases is money. Money will not buy his way out of this, in all the cases where he was prosecuted on federal Charges starting in the 1970s until he was elected President he bought his way out of jail time, well his Teflon suits are not going to protect him now!

Peace my friend!

[+Link of Hyrule]

Likewise,  "Donald Trump" is also not a rational defence of everything Biden is doing wrong. But that seems to be where we are right now!

[Golden Duck]

Just now, Paranoid Android said:

Likewise,  "Donald Trump" is also not a rational defence of everything Biden is doing wrong. But that seems to be where we are right now!

A whataboutism about whataboutism. 

[+Link of Hyrule]

19 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

A whataboutism about whataboutism. 

It's simply an observation. For 6+ years the left and the mainstream media has constantly deflected conversation away from whoever on the left was being naughty by saying "but what about Donald Trump". You see it in every non-Trump political thread here on UM, the moment something bad happens, whether it be Hillary's emails, the fakeness of the Steele Dossier, Andrew Cuomo's sexual allegations, Hunter Biden's laptop, Joe Biden's handling of the economy or the virus or inflation or sniffing girl's hair or falling up stairs or.... anything..... the stock response is "but what about Trump...". 

So it rings hollow when these same people then start complaining that the other side of the political debate is doing their own form of Whataboutism! Since they are ankle deep in the mud right alongside the pro-Trump Whatabouters (if that is even a term) it just comes across as pointless virtue signalling - pointing out the speck in their brother's eye without realising the proverbial log that is in their own.

For what it's worth, I do agree that there are far too many Whataboutisms in current political discourse. From all sides of politics. 

[Gromdor]

12 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

It's simply an observation. For 6+ years the left and the mainstream media has constantly deflected conversation away from whoever on the left was being naughty by saying "but what about Donald Trump". You see it in every non-Trump political thread here on UM, the moment something bad happens, whether it be Hillary's emails, the fakeness of the Steele Dossier, Andrew Cuomo's sexual allegations, Hunter Biden's laptop, Joe Biden's handling of the economy or the virus or inflation or sniffing girl's hair or falling up stairs or.... anything..... the stock response is "but what about Trump...". 

So it rings hollow when these same people then start complaining that the other side of the political debate is doing their own form of Whataboutism! Since they are ankle deep in the mud right alongside the pro-Trump Whatabouters (if that is even a term) it just comes across as pointless virtue signalling - pointing out the speck in their brother's eye without realising the proverbial log that is in their own.

For what it's worth, I do agree that there are far too many Whataboutisms in current political discourse. From all sides of politics. 

It's because it's always talk with no substance nor arrests.  

If the laptop was half of what people claim it to be, a Trump appointed FBI director in a Republican controlled Presidency, Senate, Congress with the cooperation of a Trump appointed Attorney General could have easily pressed charges and convicted.  

Republicans have literally been the party that cries wolf when it comes to crimes.  One of the few things I can credit democrats with, is that after they cry wolf they beat it to death with pitchforks.

[Golden Duck]

6 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

It's simply an observation. For 6+ years the left and the mainstream media has constantly deflected conversation away from whoever on the left was being naughty by saying "but what about Donald Trump". You see it in every non-Trump political thread here on UM, the moment something bad happens, whether it be Hillary's emails, the fakeness of the Steele Dossier, Andrew Cuomo's sexual allegations, Hunter Biden's laptop, Joe Biden's handling of the economy or the virus or inflation or sniffing girl's hair or falling up stairs or.... anything..... the stock response is "but what about Trump...". 

So it rings hollow when these same people then start complaining that the other side of the political debate is doing their own form of Whataboutism! Since they are ankle deep in the mud right alongside the pro-Trump Whatabouters (if that is even a term) it just comes across as pointless virtue signalling - pointing out the speck in their brother's eye without realising the proverbial log that is in their own.

For what it's worth, I do agree that there are far too many Whataboutisms in current political discourse. From all sides of politics. 

Well we know how biased you are.  You say so yourself.  And, you are exaggerating things greatly.

Investigation of Hunter Biden commenced while Joe was VP.  Not much was was made of it until the Commander-in-Cheif spoke of an October surprise. 

For a CIC that tends to take a hands off approach, rather than conceding the buck stops with him, it raises the apprehension that the CIC wasn't as concerned about justice as he is with personal political gain.

If you let yourself be enslaved by a Pavlovian penchant for whattaboutism you're not exactly on a path of integrity.

[+Link of Hyrule]

5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

It's because it's always talk with no substance nor arrests.  

If the laptop was half of what people claim it to be, a Trump appointed FBI director in a Republican controlled Presidency, Senate, Congress with the cooperation of a Trump appointed Attorney General could have easily pressed charges and convicted.  

Republicans have literally been the party that cries wolf when it comes to crimes.  One of the few things I can credit democrats with, is that after they cry wolf they beat it to death with pitchforks.

The reverse is also true - if things were as what the media had claimed,  Trump would have been in prison years ago. 

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, Paranoid Android said:

The reverse is also true - if things were as what the media had claimed,  Trump would have been in prison years ago. 

He was immune for four years of that time because of his status and pardon power.  We are only seeing the legal action against him now because he lost his immunity.  Biden and Hillary haven't had that immunity.   And prison isn't the only penalty for crimes.  Trump has had multiple rulings against him these last 6 years.

I'd settle for say Hillary having her trust disolved or Hunter being banned from business as proof that it's not all just hot air.

[+Link of Hyrule]

5 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Well we know how biased you are.  You say so yourself. 

We all have our biases. Even you.  

 

5 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

And, you are exaggerating things greatly.

Investigation of Hunter Biden commenced while Joe was VP.  Not much was was made of it until the Commander-in-Cheif spoke of an October surprise. 

For a CIC that tends to take a hands off approach, rather than conceding the buck stops with him, it raises the apprehension that the CIC wasn't as concerned about justice as he is with personal political gain.

If you let yourself be enslaved by a Pavlovian penchant for whattaboutism you're not exactly on a path of integrity.

He was trying to get elected when,  of course it was political.  I don't think even the most one eyed Trump supporter would not know that. 

And my point is that the reverse is also true.  All these democrat attacks on Trump are just as political! When both sides are guilty of something,  Whataboutism can be a very easy substitute for actual discussion. 

[+Link of Hyrule]

2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

He was immune for four years of that time because of his status and pardon power.  We are only seeing the legal action against him now because he lost his immunity.  Biden and Hillary haven't had that immunity.   And prison isn't the only penalty for crimes.  Trump has had multiple rulings against him these last 6 years.

I'd settle for say Hillary having her trust disolved or Hunter being banned from business as proof that it's not all just hot air.

Haha, that's why everyone was saying "as soon as he's no longer president he'll be arrested"... I wasn't active on UM at that time  but every page I was on said exactly that, and conservative here have confirmed that this IS what happened here....

It's been happening for 6+ years that he's going to prison.  The goal posts keep getting moved. 

[Golden Duck]

43 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

We all have our biases. Even you.  

 

He was trying to get elected when,  of course it was political.  I don't think even the most one eyed Trump supporter would not know that. 

And my point is that the reverse is also true.  All these democrat attacks on Trump are just as political! When both sides are guilty of something,  Whataboutism can be a very easy substitute for actual discussion. 

You are aping the behaviour of Democrats that you protest.  Therefore, you accept the standards of The Democrats.  If that is level of your integrity you should own it.

You still want to use Hunter Biden's laptop as a defence of Trump.  For someone that paraded a deference to logic you seem fond of wallowing in fallacies of such as tu quoque.  You also run into the issues of arguing by analogy.  You are wearing out your keyboard trying to assert an investigation is somehow applicable to the Presidential Records Act.

If Trump was truly for the people he would be proactive in giving the records of his presidency to whom they rightfully belong.

Surely if 74.2 million very fine people are right, then surely Old 45 has nothing to fear from The Archivist.

[+Link of Hyrule]

1 minute ago, Golden Duck said:

You are aping the behaviour of Democrats that you protest.  Therefore, you accept the standards of The Democrats.  If that is level of your integrity you should own it.

You still want to use Hunter Biden's laptop as a defence of Trump.  For someone that paraded a deference to logic you seem fond of wallowing in fallacies of such as tu quoque.  You also run into the issues of arguing by analogy.  You are wearing out your keyboard trying to assert an investigation is somehow applicable to the Presidential Records Act.

If Trump was truly for the people he would be proactive in giving the records of his presidency to whom they rightfully belong.

Surely if 74.2 million very fine people are right, then surely Old 45 has nothing to fear from The Archivist.

I'm not sure what you think I'm trying to achieve here, but I think you are mistaken. Regarding the bolded part of your quote, I do not, am not, and will not use Hunter Biden's laptop as a defence of Trump. I have not commented on that issue at all. What I've done is addressed the hypocrisy of an article calling for a standard of behaviour that its own publisher,  and the wider population of like-minded people don't hold themselves to.

[Golden Duck]

7 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

I'm not sure what you think I'm trying to achieve here, but I think you are mistaken. Regarding the bolded part of your quote, I do not, am not, and will not use Hunter Biden's laptop as a defence of Trump. I have not commented on that issue at all. What I've done is addressed the hypocrisy of an article calling for a standard of behaviour that its own publisher,  and the wider population of like-minded people don't hold themselves to.

That's what tu quque, or whataboutism, is - an appeal to hypocrisy.  Thus, you, yourself, don't hold yourself to the desired standard, but that of the other.

 

[MGB]

I have heard they have found President Trumps Russia Pee tape on Hunter Biden's laptop, and that is why they are reluctant to divulge the contents of his laptop. If true, this is disgusting, why would Hunter even watch such a thing? And in defense of President Trump, well, we all have to pee now and then.

[+Link of Hyrule]

30 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

That's what tu quque, or whataboutism, is - an appeal to hypocrisy.  Thus, you, yourself, don't hold yourself to the desired standard, but that of the other.

 

Pointing out the double standard is itself a form of Whataboutism??? That sounds like what you are suggesting here, but I'd rather not leap to conclusions as it implies that ignoring a double standard by letting it slide when others do it is the only way to avoid being accused of it. As that is a circular argument, and if that is what you are suggesting, I'd rather get off the merry-go-round now before it gets too dizzying. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Paranoid Android

[Golden Duck]

15 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Pointing out the double standard is itself a form of Whataboutism??? That sounds like what you are suggesting here, but I'd rather not leap to conclusions as it implies that ignoring a double standard by letting it slide when others do it is the only way to avoid being accused of it. As that is a circular argument, and if that is what you are suggesting, I'd rather get off the merry-go-round now before it gets too dizzying. 

As a disciple of logic, how can this be a surprise to you?

Quote

Tu Quoque ("You Do it Too!"; also, Two Wrongs Make a Right): A corrupt argument from ethos, the fallacy of defending a shaky or false standpoint or excusing one's own bad action by pointing out that one's opponent's acts, ideology or personal character are also open to question, or are perhaps even worse than one's own. E.g., "Sure, we may have tortured prisoners and killed kids with drones, but we don't cut off heads like they do!" Or, "You can't stand there and accuse me of corruption! You guys are all into politics and you know what we have to do to get reelected!"  Unusual, self-deprecating variants on this fallacy are the Ego / Nos Quoque Fallacies ("I / we do it too!"), minimizing or defending another's evil actions because I am / we are guilty of the same thing  or of even worse. E.g., In response to allegations that  Russian Premier Vladimir Putin is a "killer," American President Donald Trump (2/2017) told an interviewer, "There are a lot of killers. We've got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country's so innocent?"  This fallacy is related to the Red Herring and to the Ad Hominem Argument.

https://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm

Quote

Tu quoque fallacy- Appeal to hypocrisy (personal inconsistency)

Tu quoque (Latin for “you also”), or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent’s argument by asserting the opponent’s failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s). That is, it is claimed that the argument is flawed by pointing out that the persona making the argument is not acting consistently with the claims of the argument.

The logically fallacious tu quoque “argument” follows the pattern:

Person A makes claim X.
Person B asserts that A’s actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.
Therefore, X is false.

An example would be

Peter: “Bill is guilty of defrauding the government out of tax dollars.”
Bill: “How can you say that when you yourself have 20 outstanding parking tickets?”

It is a fallacy because the moral character or actions of the opponent are generally irrelevant to the logic of the argument. It is often used as a red herring tactic and is a special case of the ad hominem fallacy, which is a category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of facts about the person presenting or supporting the claim or argument.

https://cognitive-liberty.online/tu-quoque-fallacy-appeal-to-hypocrisy/

Your appeal to hypocrisy, or whataboutism, is fallacious because you haven't shown the premise of this thread is false.  Your introduction of this red-herring raises the apprehension that you are making the same argument of victimhood, when a, seemingly unlucky, road user is pulled over while others are speeding by.  This cry of the unfortunate scapegoat is a cry of social injustice; however, it doesn't change the fact the road user was speeding.

Reinhart J would not have, and should not have, have had regard to Biden when considering the request for a warrant.

[+Link of Hyrule]

5 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

As a disciple of logic, how can this be a surprise to you?

This is a circular argument, I'm getting off the ride before I get too dizzy