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Nato's most sophisticated tanks reach Ukraine


pallidin
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Thankfully the UK got out of the EU which allowed them to arm the Ukrainians while the rest of the world caught up.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

Thankfully the UK got out of the EU which allowed them to arm the Ukrainians while the rest of the world caught up.

The Ukrainians are desperate to join the EU. Why do you think that is? And this video is about the German Gepard.

And since 2014, the US and NATO have been arming, training, and helping Ukraine. Not doing enough obviously, but doing something. Boris Johnson's attempts at gaining some international credibility while avoiding legal action at home has been fortuitous and welcome, but has had little impact on the undercover work being done. He is a populist half-wit, supported by people more halfwitted than he is.

Putin supported and helped fund Brexit to create a weaker Europe. And succeded and was emboldened by his success.

Once again, OpenMindedSceptic, you come across as someone I can't engage with in a useful way. I think we should block each other.

Edited by Silver
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7 hours ago, Silver said:

The Ukrainians are desperate to join the EU. Why do you think that is? And this video is about the German Gepard.

And since 2014, the US and NATO have been arming, training, and helping Ukraine. Not doing enough obviously, but doing something. Boris Johnson's attempts at gaining some international credibility while avoiding legal action at home has been fortuitous and welcome, but has had little impact on the undercover work being done. He is a populist half-wit, supported by people more halfwitted than he is.

Putin supported and helped fund Brexit to create a weaker Europe. And succeded and was emboldened by his success.

Once again, OpenMindedSceptic, you come across as someone I can't engage with in a useful way. I think we should block each other.

Feel free to ignore me Silver. History demonstrates that you cannot debate without making everything personal. It's a recognised condition that would benefit from professional help. 

As for the UK getting the right equipment in at the right time, putting in the right steps to stop trade with Russia and penalise many of their major figures, that is all on record.

The EU's slow and stilted response that is still trading with Russian fuel as I write is on record too.

Meanwhile, I hope you get the help you need Silver. Until then, I am glad you are not engaging with me. Good riddance.

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46 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

Feel free to ignore me Silver. History demonstrates that you cannot debate without making everything personal. It's a recognised condition that would benefit from professional help. 

As for the UK getting the right equipment in at the right time, putting in the right steps to stop trade with Russia and penalise many of their major figures, that is all on record.

The EU's slow and stilted response that is still trading with Russian fuel as I write is on record too.

Meanwhile, I hope you get the help you need Silver. Until then, I am glad you are not engaging with me. Good riddance.

What triggers me is your frequent assertions that we could not have done something or other (whatever it is), if we were still EU members. The truth is, we have done nothing that we could not have done had we remained members - not one single thing. We have even appointed a "Brexit Opportunties Minister" to try to find something- all he has come up with is a possible re-positioning of signs in the Dartford Tunnel, and a few minor things we could always have done, or always have done anyway, like Imperial measures being used (we always have used MPH and weighed babies in pounds and ounces), or Crown stamps on beer glasses, or a blue passport. Not a single thing.

We could cut VAT if we left the EU, they said- well Spain already has, and the reason we can't is because Brexit has impoverished us.

It is like the phrase "the hated EU laws" -the Express is always mentioning it and it is  parroted by their readers- which laws are "much hated"? I don't know anyone, including Rees Mogg, who has been able to identify even one of them. The EU laws we retain, we helped make, because they make sense, on regulation, product safety etc.

It may be that you make arguments that make sense- but starting out by saying, erroneously, that we couldn't do something or other if we were still a member of the EU triggers me because it is false.

Always false.

It is like this narrative that is gaining traction that the MSM conspired to bring Johnson down. They didn't. The MSM were always supportive, and the Mail and Express lead campaigns against Labour. Tory MPs brought Johnson down because his lies were tarnishing their Party. And the like of Nads and Lord Cruddas are trying to undermine democracy and the rule of law by trying to prevent the Privileges Commission from investigating his behaviour.

I am genuinely sorry I get triggered by you, and I am more sorry that I am sometimes rude. I am the same to Cookie Monster when he says something that is grossly factually incorrect.

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14 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

Thankfully the UK got out of the EU which allowed them to arm the Ukrainians while the rest of the world caught up.

Dafuq are you talking about? The EU has no saying what their members do with their military equipment, unless a specific agreement was made.

The EU can't stop anyone as it has no authority whatsoever.

 

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3 hours ago, godnodog said:

Dafuq are you talking about? The EU has no saying what their members do with their military equipment, unless a specific agreement was made.

The EU can't stop anyone as it has no authority whatsoever.

 

So 20+ nations just sat and watched while the UK stepped up. Sums up the EU.  I do believe they couldn't move though, not without a mass debate together. 

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1 hour ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

So 20+ nations just sat and watched while the UK stepped up. Sums up the EU.  I do believe they couldn't move though, not without a mass debate together. 

Alrighty then......so why aren't you as mad to Nato as you are to the EU?

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Posted (edited)

I'm not seeing a long term benefit of this mobile platform.

According to the video:

Germany no longer has ammo for the guns, the Swiss who make the guns won't supply the ammo and the Brazilian government is sending only 300,000 rounds. 300,000 rounds divided by the 1100 round per minute rate of fire leaves them with ~4.5 hours of actual combat usage.

They're either going to have to secure ammo from another source or manufacture the ammo themselves.

Re-watched the video and each barrel only holds 310 rounds each so that's 620 rounds per load up. So the sustained rate of fire before reload is going to be around ~35 seconds.

Edited by Buzz_Light_Year
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8 hours ago, godnodog said:

Alrighty then......so why aren't you as mad to Nato as you are to the EU?

The EU is anti UK since leaving their little beauraucracy but are now being shown up on a global stage. NATO should move slowly, their involvement is the iron fist, at least EU could wear a velvet glove.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Silver said:

What triggers me is your frequent assertions that we could not have done something or other (whatever it is), if we were still EU members. The truth is, we have done nothing that we could not have done had we remained members - not one single thing. We have even appointed a "Brexit Opportunties Minister" to try to find something- all he has come up with is a possible re-positioning of signs in the Dartford Tunnel, and a few minor things we could always have done, or always have done anyway, like Imperial measures being used (we always have used MPH and weighed babies in pounds and ounces), or Crown stamps on beer glasses, or a blue passport. Not a single thing.

We could cut VAT if we left the EU, they said- well Spain already has, and the reason we can't is because Brexit has impoverished us.

It is like the phrase "the hated EU laws" -the Express is always mentioning it and it is  parroted by their readers- which laws are "much hated"? I don't know anyone, including Rees Mogg, who has been able to identify even one of them. The EU laws we retain, we helped make, because they make sense, on regulation, product safety etc.

It may be that you make arguments that make sense- but starting out by saying, erroneously, that we couldn't do something or other if we were still a member of the EU triggers me because it is false.

Always false.

It is like this narrative that is gaining traction that the MSM conspired to bring Johnson down. They didn't. The MSM were always supportive, and the Mail and Express lead campaigns against Labour. Tory MPs brought Johnson down because his lies were tarnishing their Party. And the like of Nads and Lord Cruddas are trying to undermine democracy and the rule of law by trying to prevent the Privileges Commission from investigating his behaviour.

I am genuinely sorry I get triggered by you, and I am more sorry that I am sometimes rude. I am the same to Cookie Monster when he says something that is grossly factually incorrect.

I have zero idea what the Express is saying.

Waht you said is you're not able to dialogue with me. Yet here you are.

The UK couldn't have moved as quickly as they did within the EU as we were a major part of that economy and the EU is vain.

Beyond road signs, the UK is doing v well with a number of commonwealth countries trading with the UK again, bolstered soon by the recent events in Birmingham. 

So long EU, and farewell, or perhaps that should be auf widersehen given the German desire to rule uber alles and plunder the poorer EU countries assets under the Holy trinity BS. 

 

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31 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

I have zero idea what the Express is saying.

Waht you said is you're not able to dialogue with me. Yet here you are.

The UK couldn't have moved as quickly as they did within the EU as we were a major part of that economy and the EU is vain.

Beyond road signs, the UK is doing v well with a number of commonwealth countries trading with the UK again, bolstered soon by the recent events in Birmingham. 

So long EU, and farewell, or perhaps that should be auf widersehen given the German desire to rule uber alles and plunder the poorer EU countries assets under the Holy trinity BS. 

 

I have had a bit of a change of heart, mate. We will never rejoin the EU, they wouldn't have us back anyway, so your Brexit is 'safe'. I recognise I am a bitter Remoaner. Brexit has robbed us in Britain of not only the chance to enjoy living, working and travelling in our own continent completely freely and safely, but has also impoverished us economically and culturally. And it was all done to prop up the Tory Party who are experiencing constant pressure from the ERG and felt they had to ape populists like Farage. You won, we lost, enjoy your victory.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

The EU is anti UK since leaving their little beauraucracy but are now being shown up on a global stage. NATO should move slowly, their involvement is the iron fist, at least EU could wear a velvet glove.

 

 

You mean the EU doesn't treat the UK like its something special? The UK ALONE decided to become a 3rd party in regards to the EU, now Brexiteers are shoked the UK is treated like a 3rd party, ahahahahah.

UK Russia USA +"insert country name here" are not holy sacred cows. Countries come and go, golden ages come and go.

Edited by godnodog
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On 8/12/2022 at 12:47 AM, Silver said:

The Ukrainians are desperate to join the EU. Why do you think that is? And this video is about the German Gepard.

And since 2014, the US and NATO have been arming, training, and helping Ukraine. Not doing enough obviously, but doing something. Boris Johnson's attempts at gaining some international credibility while avoiding legal action at home has been fortuitous and welcome, but has had little impact on the undercover work being done. He is a populist half-wit, supported by people more halfwitted than he is.

Putin supported and helped fund Brexit to create a weaker Europe. And succeded and was emboldened by his success.

Once again, OpenMindedSceptic, you come across as someone I can't engage with in a useful way. I think we should block each other.

Anybody who is against populism is by default against democracy.

Populism is about gaining the votes of the mass electorate by giving them the policies that they want. If a few dont like those policies then tough, thats democracy. We do not have minority rule which is what you`re after.

The Putin allegations over Brexit have no evidence, and you fail to think about what the British people as a majority wanted for a long time. We were tricked into the EU with the promise it would just be a trade treaty and it took us decades to finally get the vote to leave. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Anybody who is against populism is by default against democracy.

Populism is about gaining the votes of the mass electorate by giving them the policies that they want. If a few dont like those policies then tough, thats democracy. We do not have minority rule which is what you`re after.

The Putin allegations over Brexit have no evidence, and you fail to think about what the British people as a majority wanted for a long time. We were tricked into the EU with the promise it would just be a trade treaty and it took us decades to finally get the vote to leave. 

You don't understand politics. Populism does not equal democracy. It sounds as if it does, but it doesn't. It subverts democracy.

Populism allows the likes of @Grey Area @OpenMindedSceptic @itsnotoutthere @OpenMindedScepticand youself to indulge in a theory that the EU is part of a global conspiracy to subvert democracy and sovereignty and enslave us all in some sort of cabal. It is lunacy, but then, this is the Unexplained Mysteries forum, so to expect sense from people who think Trump, Farage and Johnson are skilled politicians is a lost cause.

Edited by Silver
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31 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Anybody who is against populism is by default against democracy.

Populism is about gaining the votes of the mass electorate by giving them the policies that they want. If a few dont like those policies then tough, thats democracy. We do not have minority rule which is what you`re after.

The Putin allegations over Brexit have no evidence, and you fail to think about what the British people as a majority wanted for a long time. We were tricked into the EU with the promise it would just be a trade treaty and it took us decades to finally get the vote to leave. 

Anyone who votes for populist parties are usually asking for trouble.

Populism is not (usually) democratic parties per se.

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10 minutes ago, godnodog said:

Anyone who votes for populist parties are usually asking for trouble.

Populism is not (usually) democratic parties per se.

It is never. You are falling into the trap of believing that because populism is tolerated by democratic societies, it must be  part of democracy. It is the enemy of democracy.

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35 minutes ago, Silver said:

You don't understand politics. Populism does not equal democracy. It sounds as if it does, but it doesn't. It subverts democracy.

Populism allows the likes of @Grey Area @OpenMindedSceptic @itsnotoutthere @OpenMindedScepticand yourself to indulge in a theory that the EU is part of a global conspiracy to subvert democracy and sovereignty and enslave us all in some sort of cabal. It is lunacy, but then, this is the Unexplained Mysteries forum, so to expect sense from people who think Trump, Farage and Johnson are skilled politicians is a lost cause.

You cannot cope with those who do not share your political views.

Reflect over yourself. To keep your world together you have convinced yourself Putin caused Brexit (there is no evidence), that the UK economy is the worst performing in the G7 (its the USA not the UK), that we must believe in a global EU conspiracy (where are the EU wide referendums to see if its populations want to be in it?), and if I search around your posts I bet I can find we must be uneducated or racist bigots.

You have no respect for democracy, what the majority of a population want (unless it so happens to align to your views), and only see leaders on the political right as having something wrong with them. I bet you also think people who aren`t swept along by the propaganda over Ukraine are Pro-Russians too?

How do you expect other people to listen and agree with you if you blind yourself to the flaws in your own thinking?

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2 minutes ago, Silver said:

It is never. You are falling into the trap of believing that because populism is tolerated by democratic societies, it must be  part of democracy. It is the enemy of democracy.

So how does democracy work if a load of policies which are popular with the public are denied to them?

Thats a dictatorship. What would you do with the people who say no, this is a democracy, we want these policies, and we arent going away until we are given them?

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So, in short, Ukraine is getting German tanks, and for some reason there is also a long discussion about Brexit in this thread.

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9 hours ago, Silver said:

You don't understand politics. Populism does not equal democracy. It sounds as if it does, but it doesn't. It subverts democracy.

Actually, effective populism can only exist in a regime in which choices are enabled, like a democracy.  Strip away the choice and there is no point in populism.

I think your bitterness has blinded your own understanding, and led you to throw around the phrases populism and populist as some sort of blanket insult to anyone that made a choice you disagree with.

Further to this, given that the Brexit vote was a choice between yes or no if Brexit voters were guilty of populism, so must remain supporters.  Both had similar numbers, equally biased campaigns headed by equally populist figureheads.

But let’s be honest here as this is Ukraine based thread, Germany, the leading EU economy and one of the most powerful EU militaries has finally pulled its finger out and pledged something of substance to Ukraine.  We all know the reason it has taken them almost 200 days of war to do this and it is not alone either.  The EU has been in bed with Russia and it’s natural resources for years, we’re they actually that stupid?

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On 8/13/2022 at 10:28 AM, godnodog said:

You mean the EU doesn't treat the UK like its something special? The UK ALONE decided to become a 3rd party in regards to the EU, now Brexiteers are shoked the UK is treated like a 3rd party, ahahahahah.

UK Russia USA +"insert country name here" are not holy sacred cows. Countries come and go, golden ages come and go.

No, the problem was that the UK, Germany and France are the biggest recipients of the holy trinity asset heist. Then the movements of people across the continent leaves pockets devoid of youth to push through to the next gen. The whole EU experiment is just that, an experiment, sadly one that still doesn't work. They should realise this themselves but they haven't set up enough committees yet for all those MEP's to get their noses in the trough. 

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