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Biden cancels $10,000 in student debt for millions


Eldorado

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46 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

None of that even happened……

In reality, Shapiro’s business is doing better than just sustaining itself and did so even through the pandemic.  The point you guys can’t seem to understand it that completely successful businesses became “unsustainable” due to direct government intervention. 

…perhaps Doug and Odas have me blocked because they still seem unaware that their Ben Shapiro is the wrong guy. 
 

So a couple making a combined $240k are eligible for having their student loans forgiven? I think most couples making that much money are pretty well off compared to most people, especially those who never had the benefit of a college education. There is part of this debt forgiveness program that seems elitist. 

Student Loans are taken out by individuals and as such they are calculated. You are paying you taxes based on your induvidual tax returns. Household incomes and debts are a different calculations which calculate an income or debt based on a single household regardles if there is one or two people are working.

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23 minutes ago, odas said:

This is a good question. I just checked briefly the cost of higher education in the baltic states. They seem much more affordable there with anywhere from 1500 euros for regular students (Estonia) to 7000 for Bachelors degrees. But, please correct me if I am wrong, the taxes are about 20% and a portion goes to make education affordable to all. Could you give more insight to that? Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia seem to have all simmilar education costs, average pay and tax burden.

Lithuania:

Income tax ~20% (5-32%)

social security ~20 %

pension fund ~3%

(VAT - 24%)

As for tuitions can't say right away.

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1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Please explain how I benefit from paying other peoples debt. Tuition WILL be raised as a result of this, as it has been raised hugely since the government decided to guarantee student loans so it is NOT a separate argument.  This will end up making it even harder for future generations to afford higher education.  I believe you must owe student loan debt yourself to be in agreement with this.  Pretty irresponsible from alpha to omega. 

The pandemic set back many young folks, at a crucial time during their financial development. Did you have to endure a pandemic during your post graduate years? I didn't.

If we need to set some sort of inflation controls on higher education, by law, I'm all for it. The cost should not exceed the overall inflation rate by a reasonable percentage, and that's easy to legislate, if the political will exists to do so. The problem lies with a lack of good will on the part of U.S. law makers, who prefer to line their own pockets, instead of their constiuents.

Edited by Raptor Witness
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3 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

The student loan program was created for 18-year-olds with no credit history who are unable to work while attending college.  Without that government guarantee, or the government just making the loan itself, a lot of people could not afford college.

 

I don't have much sympathy for those who say they couldn't afford to go to college so are out working.  There are lots of scholarships, grants and loans that will allow you to piece together enough to get by on until you graduate.  I managed to support a family with two kids in college while getting my Ph.D.  It can be done if you want to do it.

Doug

Good point.  The unforeseen consequence has been for young people, trusting in their parent's society to become prey to almost pay-day loan level predators.  They have entered into loans that saddle them for many years.  Like credit card companies the lenders have set up minimum payment programs that never result in the debt being paid off.   Unless they are smart enough and have enough money sense to pay higher payments, the former students never get out of hock.

We can't change the past, but going forward, I would like to see more in the nature of Pell grants and  free tuition at 2 year and state institutions funded by tax payer money.  I think it would be cheaper in the long run and also fair.  Including 2 year junior colleges also gives trades a chance to recruit for apprentice ship programs. The need for mechanics, welders, automation techs, plumbers and electricians will not go away any time soon.

 

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21 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

The pandemic set back many young folks, at a crucial time during their financial development. Did you have to endure a pandemic during your post graduate years? I didn't.

If we need to set some sort of inflation controls on higher education, by law, I'm all for it. The cost should not exceed the overall inflation rate by a reasonable percentage, and that's easy to legislate, if the political will exists to do so. The problem lies with a lack of good will on the part of U.S. law makers, who prefer to line their own pockets, instead of their constiuents.

And I'm sure most of these people carrying this type of debt were in heavy student debt years before the pandemic.  Throughout the pandemic I had to pay my bills regardless of the governors actions of crippling our states economy.  If the states that caused the setback in the crucial time of economic development (just wow :rolleyes:) of these people then let their state pay it back, see how that flies.  

Again, this is nothing less that our **** president attempting to buy votes before the midterm.  Buying them with our own money.

Edited by OverSword
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1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Nobody coerced other people to attend expensive classes knowingly taking out huge loans to do so.  If they are unable to pay it back please tell me why corporations or anyone else should pay that off for them?  When I make a bad financial decision should you pay down my debt?  

Its not about them paying off debts , its about them getting some 300 something billion in tax breaks . Twas about this >>>>>>>   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act_of_2017

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) reported that under the Act individuals and pass-through entities like partnerships and S corporations would receive about $1.125 trillion in net benefits (i.e. net tax cuts offset by reduced healthcare subsidies) over 10 years, while corporations would receive around $320 billion in benefits. The CBO estimated that implementing the Act would add an estimated $2.289 trillion to the national debt over ten years,[

 

Edited by razman
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17 minutes ago, razman said:

Its not about them paying off debts , its about them getting some 300 something billion in tax breaks . Twas about this >>>>>>>   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act_of_2017

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) reported that under the Act individuals and pass-through entities like partnerships and S corporations would receive about $1.125 trillion in net benefits (i.e. net tax cuts offset by reduced healthcare subsidies) over 10 years, while corporations would receive around $320 billion in benefits. The CBO estimated that implementing the Act would add an estimated $2.289 trillion to the national debt over ten years,[

 

What does this have to do with Biden's plan on wiping away money owed on student loans for $10 to $20k per oblige?  

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3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

What does this have to do with Biden's plan on wiping away money owed on student loans for $10 to $20k per oblige?  

I dont know , it was mentioned earlier in the thread and i quoted on it. I thought it was part of the whole package.

Edited by razman
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1 hour ago, odas said:

Student Loans are taken out by individuals and as such they are calculated. You are paying you taxes based on your induvidual tax returns. Household incomes and debts are a different calculations which calculate an income or debt based on a single household regardles if there is one or two people are working.

I assume you are referring to married couples making $250k being eligible for student debt forgiveness, 

This WH fact sheet about “Student Loan Relief for Borrowers Who Need It Most” contains this detail -

“Borrowers are eligible for this relief if their individual income is less than $125,000 ($250,000 for married couples). No high-income individual or high-income household – in the top 5% of incomes – will benefit from this action. ”

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/

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4 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

“Borrowers are eligible for this relief if their individual income is less than $125,000 ($250,000 for married couples). No high-income individual or high-income household – in the top 5% of incomes – will benefit from this action. ”

So people making easily twice what I make in much more affordable states than where I live somehow can't pay back their college loans?  Just.....wow.  Un-****ing-believable.

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On 8/25/2022 at 11:31 AM, OverSword said:

In other words everything you cited I'm against.

But not enough to turn down the benefits.

Doug

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2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Again, this is nothing less that our **** president attempting to buy votes before the midterm.  Buying them with our own money.

The other issue to be considered, is the government’s early ignorance and messaging, led by Vladimir Trump, of the seriousness of the pandemic. He deliberately misled the country, and admitted too as much, and hundreds of thousands of people are dead because of it. So don’t try to whitewash what really happened, here.

The fact that President Biden is trying to make meager amends is heartwarming to me.

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1 hour ago, OverSword said:

So people making easily twice what I make in much more affordable states than where I live somehow can't pay back their college loans?  Just.....wow.  Un-****ing-believable.

I hear you. Same like when you have to pay all your taxes and people who own castels, airplanes, hundreds of cars don't have to.

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1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

I assume you are referring to married couples making $250k being eligible for student debt forgiveness, 

This WH fact sheet about “Student Loan Relief for Borrowers Who Need It Most” contains this detail -

“Borrowers are eligible for this relief if their individual income is less than $125,000 ($250,000 for married couples). No high-income individual or high-income household – in the top 5% of incomes – will benefit from this action. ”

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/

Yes, I read that this includes householdes up to a max.

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14 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

But not enough to turn down the benefits.

Doug

What benefits don't I turn down where I have the option?  

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10 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

The other issue to be considered, is the government’s early ignorance and messaging, led by Vladimir Trump, of the seriousness of the pandemic. He deliberately misled the country, and admitted too as much, and hundreds of thousands of people are dead because of it. So don’t try to whitewash what really happened, here.

The fact that President Biden is trying to make meager amends is heartwarming to me.

The democrats were talking this jive years before trump was elected.  This has nothing to do with trump and everything to do with and unpopular president trying to bolster his socialist party up before midterms.  

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12 minutes ago, odas said:

I hear you. Same like when you have to pay all your taxes and people who own castels, airplanes, hundreds of cars don't have to.

That's a fallacy.  they pay all the taxes the law requires them to pay.  You can't blame wealthy people for not paying more than they are required to pay, that's just nonsense.  This however, is not law and according to Nancy Pelosi not even in the presidents jurisdiction.

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33 minutes ago, OverSword said:

What benefits don't I turn down where I have the option?  

Did you return your savings on your last car purchase that resulted from the survival of the auto industry and the cash-for-clunkers program?

Did you send the money you saved on food produced under the Farm Bill back to the Department of Agriculture?

Did you buy any lumber?  Did you send your savings back to the Forest Service?

 

There are so many of these programs that even the agencies that administer them can't name them all.  My little three-man state district counted up 17 programs that we administered for the Feds.  Imagine how many the Department of Agriculture handles.  Or the Department of Commerce.  The Durango District of the Colorado State Forest Service administers 80 acres near Mesa Verde for the State of Maine, for example, proceeds going to Maine's General Fund.  The Forest Service turns over 30% of timber sale money to local governments for schools and roads.  The Bureau of Land Management handles grazing leases on the Snake River plain for the State of Idaho and turns the money from them over to the state for the School Fund.  If you have Federal land in your state, the State School Fund is receiving income from those lands.  In northwest Oklahoma the Department of Agriculture leases sites for windmills to electric companies at $8000 per year each (They have 16 windmills on the property.).  And there are wind farms in the southwest part of the state with hundreds of windmills on BLM land, each paying $8000 per year to the Feds.  You benefit from these programs and thousands more even though you don't know they exist.

Doug

Edited by Doug1066
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5 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Monitoring banks over the amount student can loan, may work.

There's a formula that dictates how much the Feds will loan per student per semester.  Amounts over that are not made by the government nor are they guaranteed.  The bank can make that loan on its own, but it is not a student loan.

Doug

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1 hour ago, OverSword said:

This has nothing to do with trump and everything to do with and unpopular president trying to bolster his socialist party up before midterms. 

All programs are about boosting popularity among specific groups of people.  Trump's tax cut for billionaires made him popular with them, but not so with most of the rest of us.

Doug

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39 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Did you return your savings on your last car purchase that resulted from the survival of the auto industry and the cash-for-clunkers program?

Have never purchased a new car, and since I live and work in the city have not owned a car for seven years

39 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Did you send the money you saved on food produced under the Farm Bill back to the Department of Agriculture?

You mean the money that I payed for with my taxes that supported the program?  The government makes thing more expensive and then you praise them for trying to lower cost's :rolleyes: Jeez dude, please just stop.

39 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Did you buy any lumber?  Did you send your savings back to the Forest Service?

:w00t:  Keep reaching

 

39 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

There are so many of these programs that even the agencies that administer them can't name them all.

All funded off of our sweat.  I pay around $800 in taxes a month.  I'm really not getting my money's worth.  

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4 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

All programs are about boosting popularity among specific groups of people.  Trump's tax cut for billionaires made him popular with them, but not so with most of the rest of us.

Doug

Good excuse for supporting bull crap :tu: Keep it up

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25 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I pay around $800 in taxes a month.

Then you're making a lot more than I am.  Quit your whining.  It's not becoming for wealthy people to complain about how poor they are.

Doug

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26 minutes ago, OverSword said:

You mean the money that I payed for with my taxes that supported the program?

Ag programs control markets to keep food being produced in the amounts and prices needed to keep our population fed and clothed.  They reduce prices by many times their cost.

The call it the "Farm Bill," but its name is the Food Security Act.  That about says it:  the bill's purpose is to regulate food prices, not help farmers.  You benefit just by eating.

Doug

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