In what religion do I fit?

[Guyver]

1 hour ago, joc said:

  

You say, I wrote a song.  I say...okay, let's hear it.  You say, no.  I will just keep it in my head.  Fine, but the song isn't actually real...only to you.   Things that are mental are mental.  Things that are physical are both.  A song by definition must be heard in order to actually exist...within the realm of reality.  How much sense would it make if I told my friend...Hey Guyver wrote this great song....but I've never actually heard it...no one has...and Guyver has never played it or sang it outloud...only in his mind...but he says it is great!   

Good points, I had to LOL on the last part.  Guyver says he wrote a great song, but no one can hear it - it’s only in his mind and that’s where he’s gonna leave it.  Someone may say, Guyver should just leave all of his songs in his mind so no one has to hear them lol. Anyway, it’s a very interesting idea.  I think we would need to add written to that question.  Is the song only real when sung, played, or written? We know they are real when written, played, or sung, because that’s the interaction with the physical world.  Can the mind interact with the physical world?  I don’t think so, but, IDK.

[XenoFish]

Too much over-thinking going on here.

[Guyver]

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Too much over-thinking going on here.

GUILTY AS CHARGED!,,, on such a ridiculously high level.  Seriously, I overthink everything.  I’m not saying I’m on an OCD level, but, I could be close compared to many people.  For example, right now I’m completely locked-up over what song to put in my Wine Bar Set.  What the hell is that?

I have decided to pursue my dream of playing a show- a musical performance if you will as the front man, that is lead singer/guitar player.  I’ve been working real hard to get good enough to play in public, and I think I’m close.  Don’t have a band but I have a partner who plays and we talked about doing this gig in a wine bar together in my town.  I have my first song down, my third, fourth and fifth….but I can’t decide on what to put second in the show.  It takes me two just to get my voice warmed up….anyway…to cut short.  I have to overcome fear to do this because even though people consider me a good player, I’ve never been lead vocalist, only background, and someone close to me said my vocals weren’t that great.  They were mediocre.  Well, even though I’m getting better, I’m fearful of sounding mediocre instead of good.  If that makes any sense.  It’s just what I’m going through right now trying to accomplish a dream, and I know that sounds like such a small thing, and it prolly is.  Sigh.

[Guyver]

Here’s my set list if anyone is interested.  I’ve added a few since I wrote this, my favorite one being a cover of a Dire Straights number called Once Upon a Time in the West.

 

[Guyver]

PS.  What does this have to do with the topic?  
Answer.  Music is pretty much my religion….or at least a big part of it.  It’s what I love and believe in.  That plus golf. FWIW.

[Festina]

2 hours ago, Guyver said:

Good points, I had to LOL on the last part.  Guyver says he wrote a great song, but no one can hear it - it’s only in his mind and that’s where he’s gonna leave it.  Someone may say, Guyver should just leave all of his songs in his mind so no one has to hear them lol. Anyway, it’s a very interesting idea.  I think we would need to add written to that question.  Is the song only real when sung, played, or written? We know they are real when written, played, or sung, because that’s the interaction with the physical world.  Can the mind interact with the physical world?  I don’t think so, but, IDK.

The music is real to the gods.  

God made man(kind) so man(kind) could become gods.

Seems to me Beethoven was a god, a creator of the Grandest piece of music ever written when he was stone deaf.  It can be called a miracle or magic whatever suits one fancy. But it was REAL before he wrote it down. You know in the REAL World where it originated to be experienced in this fake world.  A gift from the gods to be sure.

Seems he was of a pagan nature was well. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Festina

[+Sherapy]

12 hours ago, joc said:

That's not really accurate though, because the guy studied Mandarin in High School.  He was in an automobile accident and had a head injury and was in a coma.  He woke from the coma and could only speak Mandarin.  But he already knew how to speak mandarin.  So, it wasn't really outside his experience.  It was already a part of his experience.

Excellent counter. Fun to read.

[+Sherapy]

33 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Here’s my set list if anyone is interested.  I’ve added a few since I wrote this, my favorite one being a cover of a Dire Straights number called Once Upon a Time in the West.

 

These are your favorite songs? Very cool. Music is incredible for anyones spirituality. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Sherapy

[Guyver]

25 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

These are your favorite songs? Very cool. Music is incredible for anyones spirituality. 

Yes and no.  These are songs I like that I think I can sing lead and play guitar on decently. Some more than others.

[SHaYap]

Meet Hazel, she's got a request... 

Quote

 

[00.02"00]

~

 

[Alchopwn]

19 hours ago, joc said:

That's not really accurate though, because the guy studied Mandarin in High School.  He was in an automobile accident and had a head injury and was in a coma.  He woke from the coma and could only speak Mandarin.  But he already knew how to speak mandarin.  So, it wasn't really outside his experience.  It was already a part of his experience.

Dude, you're missing the point.  He could speak to fruit and the fruit could speak back!  You can't learn that at high-school.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Alchopwn

[lightly]

16 hours ago, Guyver said:

Good points, I had to LOL on the last part.  Guyver says he wrote a great song, but no one can hear it - it’s only in his mind and that’s where he’s gonna leave it.  Someone may say, Guyver should just leave all of his songs in his mind so no one has to hear them lol. Anyway, it’s a very interesting idea.  I think we would need to add written to that question.  Is the song only real when sung, played, or written? We know they are real when written, played, or sung, because that’s the interaction with the physical world.  Can the mind interact with the physical world?  I don’t think so, but, IDK.

Interesting thought!    Brains exist. ..we could hold one in our hands.  But, Is there one shred of PHYSICAL EVIDENCE  that mind exists , or is REAL!?     after all, minds are all MENTAL, and therefore nothing more than fantasy.   right?  well,  think about it.        

Edited October 11, 2022 by lightly

[+Sherapy]

13 hours ago, Guyver said:

Yes and no.  These are songs I like that I think I can sing lead and play guitar on decently. Some more than others.

 

13 hours ago, Guyver said:

Yes and no.  These are songs I like that I think I can sing lead and play guitar on decently. Some more than others.

Maybe sometime you will share some audio of you singing and playing guitar. Your passion for the things you love ( golf, music…) is inspiring. 

[+Sherapy]

13 hours ago, SHaYap said:

Meet Hazel, she's got a request... 

[00.02"00]

~

 

You did it again, what a wonderful video. Thank you. 

[lightly]

On 10/9/2022 at 3:50 PM, joc said:

Nonetheless ... the accepted facts are either real or they are not.  There is nothing 'real' about spirituality.  It is a complete mental experience and as such...is fantasy.

Fear is the great mind killer.  

  So many people seem to associate spirit uality..  belief in spirit…with Fear. .  I guess I get it..the idea being that. .people tend to fear death and so they make up spirituality and the idea of an afterlife in response to that fear?   I tend to believe, think, fantasize, that Spirit animates all life, and mind.. it’s simply a belief ,not a fear.    .. This post is a mental exercise and experience..reading it is a mental experience.  Anything we do which involves using our minds is a mental experience.?   Thinking is not fantasy.?   Where did Einstein find his famous equation E=mc2 ?   On a blackboard?  or in his MIND?  was it fantasy?      I’ve had my BRAIN scanned Numerous times and ways .. and it’s electrical physiological/mental activity measured for hours on end.  No one ever referred to it’s activity as fantasy ..or found my mind ,for that matter.    

[Guyver]

5 hours ago, Sherapy said:

 

Maybe sometime you will share some audio of you singing and playing guitar. Your passion for the things you love ( golf, music…) is inspiring. 

Thank you.  I hope to share ASAP.  Maybe Joc can help me learn how to do it.  He seems to have it figured out!

[+Sherapy]

2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Thank you.  I hope to share ASAP.  Maybe Joc can help me learn how to do it.  He seems to have it figured out!

Great idea. Look forward to hearing you play and sing.

[+Sherapy]

22 hours ago, Guyver said:

Good points, I had to LOL on the last part.  Guyver says he wrote a great song, but no one can hear it - it’s only in his mind and that’s where he’s gonna leave it.  Someone may say, Guyver should just leave all of his songs in his mind so no one has to hear them lol. Anyway, it’s a very interesting idea.  I think we would need to add written to that question.  Is the song only real when sung, played, or written? We know they are real when written, played, or sung, because that’s the interaction with the physical world.  Can the mind interact with the physical world?  I don’t think so, but, IDK.

Great question. 

[+Sherapy]

20 hours ago, Guyver said:

GUILTY AS CHARGED!,,, on such a ridiculously high level.  Seriously, I overthink everything.  I’m not saying I’m on an OCD level, but, I could be close compared to many people.  For example, right now I’m completely locked-up over what song to put in my Wine Bar Set.  What the hell is that?

I have decided to pursue my dream of playing a show- a musical performance if you will as the front man, that is lead singer/guitar player.  I’ve been working real hard to get good enough to play in public, and I think I’m close.  Don’t have a band but I have a partner who plays and we talked about doing this gig in a wine bar together in my town.  I have my first song down, my third, fourth and fifth….but I can’t decide on what to put second in the show.  It takes me two just to get my voice warmed up….anyway…to cut short.  I have to overcome fear to do this because even though people consider me a good player, I’ve never been lead vocalist, only background, and someone close to me said my vocals weren’t that great.  They were mediocre.  Well, even though I’m getting better, I’m fearful of sounding mediocre instead of good.  If that makes any sense.  It’s just what I’m going through right now trying to accomplish a dream, and I know that sounds like such a small thing, and it prolly is.  Sigh.

My two cents: I love that you actually took the feedback and are refining yourself. Kudos.  I think your OCD on a positive note is an asset (in this context) you certainly are not lazy when it comes to practicing and accomplishing goals! Your golf stories show me how much effort you put into being your best. If your voice can get better it will, of this I have no doubt. So proud of you for facing your insecurities and pushing thru them. Thanks for sharing. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Sherapy

[+joc]

4 hours ago, lightly said:

  So many people seem to associate spirit uality..  belief in spirit…with Fear. .  I guess I get it..the idea being that. .people tend to fear death and so they make up spirituality and the idea of an afterlife in response to that fear?   I tend to believe, think, fantasize, that Spirit animates all life, and mind.. it’s simply a belief ,not a fear.    .. This post is a mental exercise and experience..reading it is a mental experience.  Anything we do which involves using our minds is a mental experience.?   Thinking is not fantasy.?   Where did Einstein find his famous equation E=mc2 ?   On a blackboard?  or in his MIND?  was it fantasy?      I’ve had my BRAIN scanned Numerous times and ways .. and it’s electrical physiological/mental activity measured for hours on end.  No one ever referred to it’s activity as fantasy ..or found my mind ,for that matter.    

All belief in spirituality is  associated with fear.  Yep, you got it right! 

But you got some things wrong too...posting, writing, reading...NOT just mental...it's physical as well because it is being experienced in the Real World.  Everything happening in your head is fantasy.  Because it is in your head.  Einstein did not work out the principles of his theory of relativity in his head.  He did indeed work them out on a black board.  The ideas he had...mental!  Putting them on the black board made them physical.  I.e... reality.  

Your brain is physical my friend.  Electricity is physical.  Chemicals are physical.  The thoughts that are inside your head are also *real...but not part of the physical world.  If you think a thought...it's mental...if you express the thought then it becomes physical.  There is a huge difference between watching a movie on the screen and playing movies in your head.

[+joc]

23 hours ago, Guyver said:

Here’s my set list if anyone is interested.  I’ve added a few since I wrote this, my favorite one being a cover of a Dire Straights number called Once Upon a Time in the West.

 

That's quite an impressive list...if pressed to play 5 songs as a cover...I'd probably run out of material at about number 4!

[lightly]

1 hour ago, joc said:

All belief in spirituality is  associated with fear.  Yep, you got it right! 

But you got some things wrong too...posting, writing, reading...NOT just mental...it's physical as well because it is being experienced in the Real World.  Everything happening in your head is fantasy.  Because it is in your head.  Einstein did not work out the principles of his theory of relativity in his head.  He did indeed work them out on a black board.  The ideas he had...mental!  Putting them on the black board made them physical.  I.e... reality.  

Your brain is physical my friend.  Electricity is physical.  Chemicals are physical.  The thoughts that are inside your head are also *real...but not part of the physical world.  If you think a thought...it's mental...if you express the thought then it becomes physical.  There is a huge difference between watching a movie on the screen and playing movies in your head.

Ok.. you say reading is mental and physical.  I agree wholeheartedly that it is a mental activity…and physical, in that, processing the information involves electrical activity in the brain.  But, when I read something it is experienced in my head..not out in the ‘real world’       How about UNDERSTANDING?  Is understanding nothing more than mental Fantasy ?  Did Einstein not understand what he was writing on the blackboard?   ..until he wrote it on the blackboard at which time it became physical  and therefore  Real?     Good one.     Of course he ‘worked it out’ in his mind ,and understood it, BEFORE he wrote it on the blackboard .     The idea was absolutely real in his mind ..and on the blackboard , IF understood by the reader.     Thoughts are real.   When you write song lyrics…do you think of them (realize them) Before?  or After?  you write them down..or sing them?

Edited October 11, 2022 by lightly

[+joc]

6 minutes ago, lightly said:

Ok.. you say reading is mental and physical.  I agree wholeheartedly that it is a mental activity…and physical, in that, processing the information involves electrical activity in the brain.  When I read something it is experienced in my head..not out in the real world!      How about UNDERSTANDING?  Is understanding nothing more than mental Fantasy ?  Did Einstein not understand what he was writing on the blackboard?   ..until he wrote it on the blackboard at which time it became physical  and therefore  Real?     Good one.     Of course he ‘worked it out’ in his mind ,and understood it, BEFORE he wrote it on the blackboard .     The idea was absolutely real in his mind ..and on the blackboard , IF understood by the reader.     Thoughts are real.   When you write song lyrics…do you think of them (realize them) Before?  or After?  you write them down..or sing them?

I don't know what Einstein thought about.  Neither do you.  You do not know what I am thinking about.  If you want to get really technical about it.  Once you think of a thing it is memorized by your brain.  The thought is etched into the chemical landscape of your brain. That is where most thoughts exist...as memory.  Once you remember a thought however...in the actual time you are thinking about it...it is all mental. Like dreams...visuals created by your sleeping mind accessing the memory files in your brain.  The dreams aren't a reflection of reality per say.  You didn't create them...your brain did. 

Which kind of gets back to my point.  Spirituality exists only in your head.  There is no physical realness to any of it.  So, it's all fantasy.  Stories of ghosts are real.  Ghosts however are not real.  Living entities without bodies are not real.  Existing only in one's head, they are fantasy.  No amount of believing in a ghost or spirit or entity will cause it to appear in the physical world.  It cannot.  It isn't real.

I personally think it is very important to be able to separate reality from fantasy.  It's what keeps us sane.

[lightly]

13 minutes ago, joc said:

I personally think it is very important to be able to separate reality from fantasy.  It's what keeps us sane.

That’s a rational thought.   Is it real?    Was it just fantasy ..before you wrote it down?

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by lightly

[+joc]

2 hours ago, lightly said:

That’s a rational thought.   Is it real?    Was it just fantasy ..before you wrote it down?

 

It was a rational thought.  It was real...a real thought...I thunk it I did!  And yet all thoughts are fantasy until they make their way into the real physical world.  That's why they are thoughts...they exist only in the mind.  When I wrote the thought, it became part of the physical reality of the world.  No more just a thought, but an actual readable document.  No matter how real a Spirit may seem to you in your own head...it is all fantasy...because the Spirit can never be part of the physical reality of the world...therefore...it isn't real.  Thoughts are real...I just wrote one down.  

You really seem to me to be attempting a 'gotcha' of some kind with all of this.  There is no 'gotcha'...and it's really pretty simple.  The Mind...i.e. Consciousness is generated by the physical universe.  When there is no more physical generation possible...the Mind...i.e.  Consciousness ceases to exist.  It is a cold, hard fact and not easily palatable for most.  But then the truth is the truth is the truth.  Perhaps the fantasy spirit game that most believe in takes the edge off of that cold hard truth.  I suppose actually that it does just that.  Makes death more acceptable.  It's pretty damn final though.  No apologies for being a realist.  

Another  thought...we all stand on the edge of the abyss constantly.