Legalese - a foreign language

[Dreamer screamer]

9 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

I'll admit you are making a good case that gibberish is not English.

Everything that we do has rules.  Every game we play was thought of and has rules.   

Lord denning stated that when things go tits up so too speak, everything comes down to rules otherwise what is to stop people from doing whatever they want?    Robocop, if this robot didn't have rules; an operating system what stops it just killing and murdering anyone just the same as a psychopath doesn't stop killing because it is impulsed in killing and having no morals.  

Even a judge has rules, canon law, where a judge is bound by rules being in that position and under oath to a king or queen or constitution which are written down rules to give a duality of right and wrong. 

The whole point of philosophy:

philosophy

noun

uk

 

the use of reason in understanding such things as the nature of the real world and existence, the use and limits of knowledge, and the principles of moral judgment:  

Principles and rules are both nouns, so nouns are nothing more than ideas.  law was thought of as an idea from robert peel with 9 principles in 1829.   Principles have nothing to do with legalese.

 

 

knowledge

 

• 2.

  a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour.

 

[Dreamer screamer]

27 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Context is important.  You've provided a cherry-picked clip and derived nonsense.

Context is important, true, however my perception of conversing something to you without your knowledge of knowing what I am on about can be difficult to prove.   I can see 2+2 = 4. You can see 2+2=5.

Who is correct? 

[Dreamer screamer]

12 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

So you can't even quote your own video accurately.  You can't even be trusted to get simple details correct.

No matter how much you spam these forums, you neither understand what, nor why, you are cutting-and-pasting.

How am I spamming.   I put down FACTS!  

 

legalese

noun [ U ]

  disapproving

uk

language used by lawyers and in legal documents that is difficult for ordinary people to understand

 

Now we kow why, it's not English.

 

language

noun

uk

 

a system of communication consisting of sounds, words, and grammar:

Grammar??   so the best Grammar books out there are the chicago manual of styles 17th edition.  Oxford manual of styles.

if one comma in a wrong place can cost a company millions, so getting the grammar correct is important.   In legal documents getting the language correct can be costly.    why do we walk into a court room do we enter a placew where no one speaks English even though we are hearign English?

 

[Golden Duck]

4 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Context is important, true, however my perception of conversing something to you without your knowledge of knowing what I am on about can be difficult to prove.   I can see 2+2 = 4. You can see 2+2=5.

Who is correct? 

You're wrong again.  I've always seen that 2 + 2 = 4.  

I've also seen that everyone who has posted in this forum thinks you are talking nonsense.

Perhaps the problem isn't with everyone else.  Perhaps it is with you.

You will find it difficult to prove anything when you don't know what you are on about.

[Dreamer screamer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRyQi8qWfxI#

2:20   Pretty much says it all.

Legalese can let you get away with murder.     

[Golden Duck]

5 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

How am I spamming.   I put down FACTS!  

 

legalese

noun [ U ]

  disapproving

uk

language used by lawyers and in legal documents that is difficult for ordinary people to understand

 

Now we kow why, it's not English.

 

language

noun

uk

 

a system of communication consisting of sounds, words, and grammar:

Grammar??   so the best Grammar books out there are the chicago manual of styles 17th edition.  Oxford manual of styles.

if one comma in a wrong place can cost a company millions, so getting the grammar correct is important.   In legal documents getting the language correct can be costly.    why do we walk into a court room do we enter a placew where no one speaks English even though we are hearign English?

 

Such attention to detail when trying to discuss the structure of language.

Have fun!  But, be careful.

[Dreamer screamer]

1 minute ago, Golden Duck said:

You're wrong again.  I've always seen that 2 + 2 = 4.  

How can you when you don't even know the difference between legalese and English.?

1 minute ago, Golden Duck said:

I've also seen that everyone who has posted in this forum thinks you are talking nonsense.

Everyone?   3 people?  lmao  I wouldn't want you on a jury.

1 minute ago, Golden Duck said:

Perhaps the problem isn't with everyone else.  Perhaps it is with you.

But a jury would need to decide this as I would never let one judge decide my fait, There are rules to this game.

1 minute ago, Golden Duck said:

You will find it difficult to prove anything when you don't know what you are on about.

Not nice knowing your world isn't what you thought it was.

[Dreamer screamer]

3 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Such attention to detail when trying to discuss the structure of language.

Have fun!  But, be careful.

Why we have dictionaries legal and English rules.  

 

[Golden Duck]

4 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

... don't even know the difference between legalese and English.?

... I would never let one judge decide my fait, ...

Judge not, lest ...

[Golden Duck]

4 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Why we have dictionaries legal and English rules.  

 

Apparently so you can ignore them?

Edited September 19, 2022 by Golden Duck

[Dreamer screamer]

8 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Apparently so you can ignore them?

Consider the bible which has been around for at least since its interpretation from latin to English around 1611.   After it was interpreted the people that did this were instantly murdered.

So lets also consider that when the church put up notices about what they were doing they would put up signs in Latin so no one could read them.  This gave them (the church) great power over the people.

Let us now read what is in the bible.

James 2

2:9 But if all of you have respect to persons, all of you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

So we are all sinners in the eyes of God.  

[Dreamer screamer]

 

Conformity : compliance with the practices of the Church of England.

 

conformity

noun

noun: conformity

1. compliance with standards, rules, or laws.

    

   Why if this is the case can acts and statutes be repealed by government?  nullified by jury? Yet even the bible can be altered and changed.   NKJV?  why did we need a new bible?

    

   Why are there 9 editions of blackstones legal dictionaries?? 

    

   Seems that nothing stays the same!  Yet minds are stubborn to see the truth and stays the same.

 

[Dreamer screamer]

https://www.britannica.com/topic/law-code

law code, also called Legal Code, a more or less systematic and comprehensive written statement of laws. Law codes were compiled by the most ancient peoples. The oldest extant evidence for a code is tablets from the ancient archives of the city of Ebla (now at Tell Mardikh, Syria), which date to about 2400 bc. The best known ancient code is the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi. The Romans began keeping legal records, such as the Law of the Twelve Tables (451–450 bc), but there was no major codification of Roman law until the Code of Justinian (ad 529–565), which was compiled long after the dissolution of the Western Empire. The peoples who overran the Western Empire also made codes of law, such as the Salic Law of the Salian Franks. During the later Middle Ages in Europe, various collections of maritime customs, drawn up for the use of merchants and lawyers, acquired great authority throughout the continent.

Nouun

1.

legal code - a code of laws adopted by a state or nation; "a code of laws" jus civile, Justinian code, Roman law, civil law - the legal code of ancient Rome; codified under Justinian; the basis for many modern systems of civil law Salic law - the code of laws of the Salian Franks and other German tribes criminal law - the body of law dealing with crimes and their punishment code, codification - a set of rules or principles or laws (especially written ones) penal code - the legal code governing crimes and their punishment U. S. Code, United States Code - a consolidation and codification by subject matter of the general and permanent laws of the United States; is prepared and published by a unit of the United States House of Representatives law, jurisprudence - the collection of rules imposed by authority; "civilization presupposes respect for the law"; "the great problem for jurisprudence to allow freedom while enforcing order"   https://www.thefreedictionary.com/legal+codes   So what is Roman civil laws doing in America and England?    Why did America adopt the English bill of rights idea when they supposedly won the the war and broke free from England and the church?

[Dreamer screamer]

[Dreamer screamer]

jurisdiction

noun

noun: jurisdiction

1. the official power to make legal decisions and judgements.

    

   If legalese is not English and is a language of its own which appears to be from Roman civil law, then common law exist to when we are not in any legal jurisdiction? 

[Dreamer screamer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irnerius

Irnerius (c. 1050– after 1125), sometimes referred to as lucerna juris^[1] ("lantern of the law"), was an Italian jurist, and founder of the School of Glossators and thus of the tradition of Medieval Roman Law.

He taught the newly recovered Roman lawcode of Justinian I, the Corpus Juris Civilis, among the liberal arts at the University of Bologna, his native city. The recovery and revival of Roman law, taught first at Bologna in the 1070s, was a momentous event in European cultural history. Irnerius' interlinear glosses on the Corpus Juris Civilis stand at the beginnings of a European law that was written, systematic, comprehensive and rational, and based on Roman law.

The scholars of the 11th- and 12th-century legal schools in Italy, France and Germany are identified as glossators in a specific sense. They studied Roman law based on the Digesta, the Codex of Justinian, the Authenticum (an abridged Latin translation of selected constitutions of Justinian, promulgated in Greek after the enactment of the Codex and therefore called Novellae), and his law manual, the Institutiones Iustiniani, compiled together in the Corpus Iuris Civilis. (This title is itself only a sixteenth-century printers' invention.) Their work transformed the inherited ancient texts into a living tradition of medieval Roman law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossator

Blackstones legal dictionary 4th edition

GLOSSA

Lat. A gloss, explanation, or interpretation. The glossce of the Roman laware brief illustrative comments or annotations on the text of Justinian’s collections,made by the professors who taught or lectured on them

An annotation is extra information associated with a particular point in a document or other piece of information. It can be a note that includes a comment or explanation. Annotations are sometimes presented in the margin of book pages.

I believe the bible had such glosses to give meaning to words. 

Today we find the word glossary -

glossary

noun

noun: glossary; plural noun: glossaries

1. an alphabetical list of words relating to a specific subject, text, or dialect, with explanations; a brief dictionary.

    

   A brief dictionary to explain the words used?

    

   Is this why we have a legal dictionary for the words used which is why the words used are NOT English with any english definition?

    

   Blackstone stated these are artifical systems?   

    

   artificial

   adjective

   uk

   made by people, often as a copy of something natural:

    

   https://www.britannica.com/topic/natural-law

    

   natural law, in philosophy, system of right or justice held to be common to all humans and derived from nature rather than from the rules of society, or positive law.

    

   Rules of society???

    

   https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=society

    

   society (n.)

    

   1530s, "companionship, friendly association with others," from Old French societe "company" (12c., Modern French société), from Latin societatem (nominative societas) "fellowship, association, alliance, union, community," from socius "companion, ally," from PIE *sokw-yo-, suffixed form of root *sekw- (1) "to follow."
   
   Meaning "group, club" is from 1540s, originally of associations of persons for some specific purpose. Meaning "people bound by neighborhood and intercourse aware of living together in an ordered community" is from 1630s. Sense of "the more cultivated part of any community" first recorded 1823, hence "fashionable people and their doings." The Society Islands were named 1769 by Cook on his third Pacific voyage in honor of the Royal Society, which financed his travels across the world to observe the transit of Venus.

    

   society noun (ORGANIZATION)

   an organization to which people who share similar interests can belong:

    

   organization

   noun

   ( UK also organisation)

    

   uk

   WORKPLACE

   a company or other group of people that works together for a particular purpose

    

   PERSONS   company?   

   James 2 in the bible;

   2:9 But if all of you have respect to persons, all of you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

    

   So if I belong to a company as persons I commit a sin???  

    

   company

   company noun (BUSINESS)

   an organization that sells goods or services in order to make money:

    

   Didn't jesus kick the bankers out of his churches?

[Dreamer screamer]

Legalese over English?? or English over Legalese??

[Dreamer screamer]

This is the name of the guy who translated the bible and for his trouble they burned him alive.  

Can't think why though

[jmccr8]

Hi Dreamer

You really should take up a hobby to relieve stress. Rum Friday works pretty good for me even if I don’t celebrate it every Friday.

[Dreamer screamer]

Civil law is roman law? So what is roman law doing in America, Britain and Australia?  In fact is it world wide???  

[Dreamer screamer]

20 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Dreamer

You really should take up a hobby to relieve stress. Rum Friday works pretty good for me even if I don’t celebrate it every Friday.

Why do you think I am reading law..  Stange and odd thing to say.   That is you....This is me...   See we are different and have different ways to relieve stress.  Get it?

[jmccr8]

39 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Why do you think I am reading law..  Stange and odd thing to say.   That is you....This is me...   See we are different and have different ways to relieve stress.  Get it?

Hi Dreamer

I have no idea why you are reading law not sure why you took my comment the way you did. Have read your posts in other threads and you seem to have a unique quirk about language and law.

My suggestion was for you to have a few drinks to give you mind a rest from its busy circle.

[Dreamer screamer]

On 9/19/2022 at 10:34 AM, Golden Duck said:

Apparently so you can ignore them?

And this is why things are the way they are.  People have been ignoring the rules and laws that govern man which comes from the bible where all laws reside to which no man is above man.

"Ignorance is bliss" springs to mind.

8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, Kansas - 1895

The pic was from a final exam, what has the bottom line got to do with arithmetic?  The reason I put it up is because it is in legalese what money is and how we deal with money matters.  Do we find anything like that in our schools today when legalese rules us and clearly noty English??

 

[Dreamer screamer]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Dreamer

I have no idea why you are reading law not sure why you took my comment the way you did. Have read your posts in other threads and you seem to have a unique quirk about language and law.

My suggestion was for you to have a few drinks to give you mind a rest from its busy circle.

Because it is not what we are lead to believe it is.   I was under the impression years ago of what law was and it was scary because these people I thought knew what they were doing, finding out, they haven't got a ruddy clue.    Children in costume thinking they know the law and haven't got a clue, but yet can detain, arrest and even psychologically harm people for their own EGO advancement.   This is nothing short of history repeating where the nazis did the same thing by believing they too could do what ever they wanted.  At least now in England the oaths are taken, and if anyone steps out of line, there are repercussion

https://www.b****ute.com/video/20zIBqhoJmaJ/

What people power does when they know common law.

https://www.b****ute.com/video/CXdzk0X61tWB/

Gestapo policing.

Where do these constables get their authority from?

History teaches that history was way back then, I don't believe that, I see the proof that Roman law is controlling us today through a foreign language which I have put up plenty of evidence to the contrary.   It seems to come from Rome.

https://www.b****ute.com/video/zvx90fGp6HqC/

Romans are the police???

[jmccr8]

33 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Because it is not what we are lead to believe it is.   I was under the impression years ago of what law was and it was scary because these people I thought knew what they were doing, finding out, they haven't got a ruddy clue.    Children in costume thinking they know the law and haven't got a clue, but yet can detain, arrest and even psychologically harm people for their own EGO advancement.   This is nothing short of history repeating where the nazis did the same thing by believing they too could do what ever they wanted.  At least now in England the oaths are taken, and if anyone steps out of line, there are repercussion

https://www.b****ute.com/video/20zIBqhoJmaJ/

What people power does when they know common law.

https://www.b****ute.com/video/CXdzk0X61tWB/

Gestapo policing.

Where do these constables get their authority from?

History teaches that history was way back then, I don't believe that, I see the proof that Roman law is controlling us today through a foreign language which I have put up plenty of evidence to the contrary.   It seems to come from Rome.

https://www.b****ute.com/video/zvx90fGp6HqC/

Romans are the police???

Hi Dreamer

This type of comment is why I said you should have a couple of drinks.

To be honest I don’t personally feel overly controlled by Rome and unless cops are changing their names as part of their jobs most of them have names like O’Riley , Smith, Boychuck and many other non-Roman names.

Unless you are being prosecuted for something why bother as the only time it matters is if you break the law.