DeSantis sends two planes of illegal immigrants to Martha's Vineyard

[preacherman76]

20 minutes ago, moonman said:

It was shown to be fake a couple posts up if you would bother to look. Fake = not accurate. Not a hard thing to comprehend unless you actually believe there are groups of women dressed as klan members running around Martha's Vineyard with democrat signs. That's more of a republican thing to do anyway, isn't it? 

Even if it’s fake, the kkk is the democrat party. Always has been. It was accurate. 

[lightly]

https://www.google.com/search?q=kkk+was+always+democrats&client=safari&channel=ipad_bm&source=hp&ei=JvcoY-n4EPKI0PEP4JijuAQ&iflsig=AJiK0e8AAAAAYykFNpWg2jtqy_l-c_JUvbIUGOcefR1z&ved=0ahUKEwjpo8-p_aH6AhVyBDQIHWDMCEcQ4dUDCAw&uact=5&oq=kkk+was+always+democrats&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6DggAEI8BEOoCEIwDEOUCOg4ILhCPARDqAhCMAxDlAjoRCC4QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQ0QM6CwguELEDEIMBENQCOg0ILhCxAxDHARDRAxAKOgUIABCABDoICC4QsQMQgwE6DgguEIAEELEDEMcBENEDOgsILhCABBCxAxCDAToUCC4QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQ0QMQ1AI6DgguEIAEELEDEIMBENQCOgsILhCABBDHARCvAToICAAQgAQQsQM6CwgAEIAEELEDEIMBOgUILhCABDoICC4QgAQQsQM6CAgAELEDEIMBOgcIABCABBAKOggIABCABBDHAzoGCAAQHhAWOgkIABAeEMkDEBZQww9Y-lxgn2JoAXAAeACAAbYDiAGLLZIBCjAuMTAuOS4zLjKYAQCgAQGwAQo&sclient=gws-wiz

[moonman]

Yeah, not so sure about the whole "democrats started the kkk" argument.

Sounds like it was a combination of both parties at first then went more Republican. Here's a link that doesn't look like it will make your phone explode.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/03/15/how-social-media-spread-a-historical-lie/

Edited September 20, 2022 by moonman

[Likely Guy]

Back on topic:

 

[+Hammerclaw]

Funny how little fuss was made over the Biden Administration doing precisely the same thing with midnight charter flights.

Still more secret migrant flights, why is Biden keeping this off the books? (nypost.com)

[Golden Duck]

28 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Funny how little fuss was made over the Biden Administration doing precisely the same thing with midnight charter flights.

Still more secret migrant flights, why is Biden keeping this off the books? (nypost.com)

From your link.

Quote

When Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas appears before Congress next week, Republicans should demand answers, instead of his usual evasions.

This was back in April.  So, what did Congress find out?

Edited September 20, 2022 by Golden Duck

[+and-then]

On 9/18/2022 at 9:14 AM, Will Due said:

 

The federal government is not controlling the border. The federal government is not doing its job. In a case like that, states have every right to do what they're doing.

It's pure hypocrisy to try to defend the fact that people are being allowed over the border for nothing more than it being one gigantic political stunt.

 

 

If Texas were to put troops on that border with orders to stop an invasion, with violence if necessary, I wouldn't be surprised to see DC sending in federal troops to stop the Texas Guard.  It is INSANE.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, moonman said:

Yeah, not so sure about the whole "democrats started the kkk" argument.

There is ZERO historical doubt about when, where and by whom the KKK was created.  The south was solidly Democrat at the time and remained so until the 1980s.  Unless you believe the KKK was begun by the Union - Republican party.

[Grim Reaper 6]

30 minutes ago, and-then said:

There is ZERO historical doubt about when, where and by whom the KKK was created.  The south was solidly Democrat at the time and remained so until the 1980s.  Unless you believe the KKK was begun by the Union - Republican party.

Yes the Democrats certainly did start the KKK, but as far as the South Staying Democrat until the 1980s unless you have a source I don’t believe that is accurate. However, around the beginning of the 20th Century the Democratic and Republican parties did switch platforms for some reason most are not aware of this. So what was the Republican Party during Civil War switched platforms with the Democrats fully between 1870s and the 1930s.

When and why did Democrats and Republicans switch platforms? https://www.livescience.com/34241-democratic-republican-parties-switch-platforms.html

[the13bats]

7 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Even if it’s fake, the kkk is the democrat party. Always has been. It was accurate. 

Really?! Oddly that club supported trump a Republican in 2016.

[the13bats]

23 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Yes the Democrats certainly did start the KKK, but as far as the South Staying Democrat until the 1980s unless you have a source I don’t believe that is accurate. However, around the beginning of the 20th Century the Democratic and Republican parties did switch platforms for some reason most are not aware of this. So what was the Republican Party during Civil War switched platforms with the Democrats fully between 1870s and the 1930s.

When and why did Democrats and Republicans switch platforms? https://www.livescience.com/34241-democratic-republican-parties-switch-platforms.html

Seems civil war era dems were far more like trumps subjects are today.

[Grim Reaper 6]

29 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Seems civil war era dems were far more like trumps subjects are today.

Yes they were and like I said most Americans don’t even know that the Republican and Democratic Party switched platforms and causes. I don’t know why this occurred however it, and by the 1930s the switch was completed kind of weird right? 

[Grim Reaper 6]

8 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Even if it’s fake, the kkk is the democrat party. Always has been. It was accurate. 

Yes they certainly were, however the Republican and Democratic Parties switched platforms and the switch was complete by the 1930s. Bet this confuses you partner, bet you will say that isn’t so, well it is so Joe!

[DarkHunter]

4 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Yes they were and like I said most Americans don’t even know that the Republican and Democratic Party switched platforms and causes. I don’t know why this occurred however it, and by the 1930s the switch was completed kind of weird right? 

Your link doesnt really support what you are saying.

Your link says that Republicans switched from favoring big government to small government while Democrats went from favoring small government to big government but that the core supporters of each party stayed roughly the same.

It's far from the total flip in belief argument that is often attempted to be made.  Positions of both parties changed but outside of very specific and narrow areas it wasnt really a flip.

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

Your link doesnt really support what you are saying.

Your link says that Republicans switched from favoring big government to small government while Democrats went from favoring small government to big government but that the core supporters of each party stayed roughly the same.

It's far from the total flip in belief argument that is often attempted to be made.  Positions of both parties changed but outside of very specific and narrow areas it wasnt really a flip.

I do agree your right that not everything completely changed, however the post I replied to was based upon Civil Rights in America and those issues did switch from party to party. While the Democrats did start the KKK they no longer support such organizations or policies. After the Great Depression the KKK reformed and it was the Democratic Party not the Republican Party who supported desegregation starting under President Kennedy and after his death Johnson. Now the Racist elements in our Nation are considered Extreme RightWing so when did this occur?

Here is a journal that goes into a much more detail, if you still disagree this switch wasn’t complete please supply a alternative source that explains why it didn’t happen.

The Twentieth-Century Reversal: How Did the Republican States Switch to the Democrats and Vice Versa?

http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/research/published/reversal2.pdf

Racially conservative’ attitudes led white Southerners to leave Democratic Party.

https://journalistsresource.org/politics-and-government/racism-white-southerners-democrats-republicans/

Party Realignment And The New Deal

https://history.house.gov/Exhibitions-and-Publications/BAIC/Historical-Essays/Keeping-the-Faith/Party-Realignment--New-Deal/

 

Thanks

Edited September 20, 2022 by Grim Reaper 6

[DarkHunter]

41 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I do agree your right that not everything completely changed, however the post I replied to was based upon Civil Rights in America and those issues did switch from party to party. While the Democrats did start the KKK they no longer support such organizations or policies. After the Great Depression the KKK reformed and it was the Democratic Party not the Republican Party who supported desegregation starting under President Kennedy and after his death Johnson. Now the Racist elements in our Nation are considered Extreme RightWing so when did this occur?

Here is a journal that goes into a much more detail, if you still disagree this switch wasn’t complete please supply a alternative source that explains why it didn’t happen.

The Twentieth-Century Reversal: How Did the Republican States Switch to the Democrats and Vice Versa?

http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/research/published/reversal2.pdf

Racially conservative’ attitudes led white Southerners to leave Democratic Party.

https://journalistsresource.org/politics-and-government/racism-white-southerners-democrats-republicans/

Party Realignment And The New Deal

https://history.house.gov/Exhibitions-and-Publications/BAIC/Historical-Essays/Keeping-the-Faith/Party-Realignment--New-Deal/

 

Thanks

Just about none of that is correct.

For the 1964 civil rights act in the House of Representatives 63% of Democrats voted in favor while 80% of Republicans voted in favor while in the senate 69% of Democrats voted in favor while 82% of Republicans voted in favor.  Ironically enough the ones trying to filibuster the 1964 civil rights act were made up of mostly Democrats who filibustered it for 75 days.

The 1957 civil rights act, the first civil rights act passed in America passed the house with 167 Republicans supporting it while 19 opposed it and 118 Democrats supporting it with 107 opposing while in the Senate all 43 Republicans supported it while 29 Democrats supported it and 18 opposed it.

The racist elements arent only far right wing, those are just the ones mostly talked about.  The New Black Panther Party, not to be confused with the Black Panther Party, is a far left wing racist movement as an example.  There are actually quite a few far left racist movements but I'm too lazy to get into all of them.  Point is just cause the main focus is on far right racist movements doesnt mean the far left has no racist movements either.

The vast majority of the arguments for the Republicans and Democrats flipped position is just historical revisionism and/or over simplification and used to push current political arguments while trying to protect oneself and smear the opponent.

Out of your sources the last two are largely junk with only the first one having any value.  Since I cant copy and paste from the pdf file for some reason.  All he says with no elaboration is that racial issues have flipped parties, with no explanation of what that actually means cause it could mean a few different things, along with saying how African Americans switched from voting Republican to voting Democrat.  His conclusion sums it up best.

There are a few more paragraphs in his conclusion but they dont seem particularly relevant.

[Grim Reaper 6]

30 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Just about none of that is correct.

For the 1964 civil rights act in the House of Representatives 63% of Democrats voted in favor while 80% of Republicans voted in favor while in the senate 69% of Democrats voted in favor while 82% of Republicans voted in favor.  Ironically enough the ones trying to filibuster the 1964 civil rights act were made up of mostly Democrats who filibustered it for 75 days.

The 1957 civil rights act, the first civil rights act passed in America passed the house with 167 Republicans supporting it while 19 opposed it and 118 Democrats supporting it with 107 opposing while in the Senate all 43 Republicans supported it while 29 Democrats supported it and 18 opposed it.

The racist elements arent only far right wing, those are just the ones mostly talked about.  The New Black Panther Party, not to be confused with the Black Panther Party, is a far left wing racist movement as an example.  There are actually quite a few far left racist movements but I'm too lazy to get into all of them.  Point is just cause the main focus is on far right racist movements doesnt mean the far left has no racist movements either.

The vast majority of the arguments for the Republicans and Democrats flipped position is just historical revisionism and/or over simplification and used to push current political arguments while trying to protect oneself and smear the opponent.

Out of your sources the last two are largely junk with only the first one having any value.  Since I cant copy and paste from the pdf file for some reason.  All he says with no elaboration is that racial issues have flipped parties, with no explanation of what that actually means cause it could mean a few different things, along with saying how African Americans switched from voting Republican to voting Democrat.  His conclusion sums it up best.

There are a few more paragraphs in his conclusion but they dont seem particularly relevant.

Do you have source for the main body of your comments above, not the large print section the comments above that. Now my original comments you qouted were in response to the Preacherman who said tha the Democratic Party started the KKK and they still support them. I never said there were not left wing extremist but thanks for making that clear, however that is moving away from the original post I responded to that you quoted. Yet today when it come racism, extreme nationalism, anti-LGBT, along with White Fundamentalist it’s attributed to the Extreme RightWing groups across America. As far as my sources are concerned, while your welcome to your opinion that there junk, which I disagree with at least I supplied source’s.

I will make you a deal if you want to continue this conversation let’s both supply sources, but only Peer Reviewed Papers or Journals, other than that we can respectfully agree to disagree and end the conversation here.

Oh and by the way, in your comments above you did not even mention how the states changed from Democrat to Republican or even why that occurred. 

Thanks

Edited September 20, 2022 by Grim Reaper 6

[preacherman76]

3 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Yes they certainly were, however the Republican and Democratic Parties switched platforms and the switch was complete by the 1930s. Bet this confuses you partner, bet you will say that isn’t so, well it is so Joe!

No the democrats just switched tactics. Created a new type of plantation. They have created nothing but hopelessness and low quality of life for black people.  
 

That is more than evident in everyplace they rule over. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

14 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

No the democrats just switched tactics. Created a new type of plantation. They have created nothing but hopelessness and low quality of life for black people.  
 

That is more than evident in everyplace they rule over. 

Ok supply a source for that, I know it’s difficult for you but you can do some research, you can do it!

[preacherman76]

2 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Ok supply a source for that, I know it’s difficult for you but you can do some research, you can do it!

You need a source??? Smh

[Golden Duck]

30 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

You need a source??? Smh

Yes. Please.

In fact the site administrator says it's perfectly reasonable ti ask for a source. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Golden Duck

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

supply sources, but only Peer Reviewed Papers or Journals

 

This is so typical and very much explains why what's going on today is going on.

On the one hand, you have people who have decided to not allow anyone to tell them what to believe and what to think.

On the other hand, the opposite is true.

 

 

[DarkHunter]

1 hour ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Do you have source for the main body of your comments above, not the large print section the comments above that. Now my original comments you qouted were in response to the Preacherman who said tha the Democratic Party started the KKK and they still support them. I never said there were not left wing extremist but thanks for making that clear, however that is moving away from the original post I responded to that you quoted. Yet today when it come racism, extreme nationalism, anti-LGBT, along with White Fundamentalist it’s attributed to the Extreme RightWing groups across America. As far as my sources are concerned, while your welcome to your opinion that there junk, which I disagree with at least I supplied source’s.

I will make you a deal if you want to continue this conversation let’s both supply sources, but only Peer Reviewed Papers or Journals, other than that we can respectfully agree to disagree and end the conversation here.

Oh and by the way, in your comments above you did not even mention how the states changed from Democrat to Republican or even why that occurred. 

Thanks

You really want to play the source game on voting records that are out in the public.

Vote record of 1964 Civil Rights Act

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/88-1964/s409

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/88-1964/h182

Vote record 1957 Civil Rights Act

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/85-1957/s75

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/85-1957/h42

First links are for the senate vote second links for the house.

For the 75 day filibuster lead by the Democrats trying to block the 1964 civil rights act.

"On March 9, when Mansfield moved to take up the measure, southern senators launched a filibuster against the bill. The Senate debated the bill for sixty days, including seven Saturdays.

At the time, a two-thirds vote, or sixty-seven senators, was required to invoke cloture and cut off debate in the Senate. Since southern Democrats opposed the legislation, votes from a substantial number of senators in the Republican minority would be needed to end the filibuster. "

https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/generic/CivilRightsAct1964.htm

This whole source game you are trying to play is annoying as everything I said is public record and stupidly easy to check.

As for states changing between Republican and Democrat they are constantly changing, there is simply nothing special about it and is not evidence of a flip as an insane amount of factors are involved.

Honestly I have no interested in playing the source game, especially with you since your sources simply ignore recorded history for whatever revisionism they feel like pushing.

Just to add in peer reviewed journals for stuff like voting arent exactly a great source.  Unlike with hard sciences where peer reviewed journals mean independent scientists should of verified the findings, which doesnt always happen, with the soft sciences, such as political science, social sciences, ect, the peer review process is more to ensure what's being put out aligns with the orthodoxy of that journal not that is factually correct.  That's before the peer review problem is even factored in, which is a major problem in academia since so much value is put on the amount of articles one has published in peer reviewed journals that it has created a system where groups approve essentially anything in exchange for their stuff getting approved in other peer reviewed journals.  Its actually a good example of a perverse incentive at work.

Edited September 20, 2022 by DarkHunter

[Golden Duck]

8 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

This whole source game you are trying to play is annoying as everything I said is public record and stupidly easy to check.

You checked it online  didn't you?

It's even more stupidly easy for you to simply cut-and-paste from your history.

[WVK]

So how does the Martha’s Vineyard Saga effect the political landscape? I think it was a brilliant move by DeSantis that makes Trump seem like old news and exposed the Democrats ruling class elite hypocrisy