Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History

[Abramelin]

"Relentless attacks by groups known as the Sea Peoples around 1200 BC virtually destroyed all the major powers of the Mediterranean, and cleared the way for the rise of the Greeks, Romans and Western civilization.[i]

 Surprisingly for such a pivotal moment in world history, the origin and identity of the Sea Peoples are still widely debated. Many theories have been advanced to explain these times, and their participants have been declared to come from Anatolia, or the Aegean, or even Atlantis. We will consider the various theories, as well as a new composite view which does not appear to have been considered previously. An important element mentioned by many sources, and yet given consideration by virtually none, is the simple fact that—in the midst of a cataclysm which destroyed almost every city in the eastern Mediterranean area—the Phoenician cities remained untouched. This turns out to be one of the keys which help to unlock the mystery of the Sea Peoples—an event which changed the course of history."

Source:

https://phoenician.org/sea_peoples/

 

I started this thread because I have always wondered why the Phoenician cities remained out of harms way during the invasion of the (Land and) Sea Peoples around 1200 bce.

Whatever did they do to protect themselves from the invasion?

Or did they participate in the invasion? I don't think so.

Did they pay the invaders?

What?

 

Just this: the Phoenicians became the rulers of the Mediterranean sea right after the defeat of the Sea Peoples by the Egyptians.

That can't be a coincidence, right?

 

[Autistocrates]

The Cathaginians of whom succeeded their Phoenician ancestors were ultimately defeated by the Romans of whom erased their history, through complete destruction of their settlements

[docyabut2]

"Relentless attacks by groups known as the Sea Peoples around 1200 BC virtually destroyed all the major powers of the Mediterranean.

it was of the Atlantis story , theory  ,

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

7 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Or did they participate in the invasion? I don't think so.

Why not, Abe? 

They seem to be a natural choice. 

 

7 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Did they pay the invaders?

What?

 

Just this: the Phoenicians became the rulers of the Mediterranean sea right after the defeat of the Sea Peoples by the Egyptians.

With all of this information about the Sea Peoples, it is amazing that they cannot definitively say who they were, where from etc.

 

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

6 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

"Relentless attacks by groups known as the Sea Peoples around 1200 BC virtually destroyed all the major powers of the Mediterranean.

it was of the Atlantis story , theory  ,

Please don’t.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

The way I see it, there are only three reasons they never hit Phoenician towns. 
Either; 

they were afraid of Phoenician response;

they were paid off not to;

they were the Phoenicians.

[Piney]

4 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

The way I see it, there are only three reasons they never hit Phoenician towns. 
Either; 

they were afraid of Phoenician response;

they were paid off not to;

they were the Phoenicians.

2 groups were probably a Greek tribe (Denyen)and a Sicel one (Tjeker) with some Minoans mixed in and I think your 3 suggestions are all partially or completely true.

Individual Phoenician sailors becoming pirates and hiding at their hometowns is a given if they just raid others. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

20 minutes ago, Piney said:

2 groups were probably a Greek tribe (Denyen)and a Sicel one (Tjeker) with some Minoans mixed in and I think your 3 suggestions are all partially or completely true.

Individual Phoenician sailors becoming pirates and hiding at their hometowns is a given if they just raid others. 

I have a fourth option - they were attacking nations alphabetically and just hasn’t gotten to “p”.

[Peter Cox]

17 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I have a fourth option - they were attacking nations alphabetically and just hasn’t gotten to “p”.

So then the Zulus were very safe. 

[Abramelin]

13 hours ago, Autistocrates said:

The Cathaginians of whom succeeded their Phoenician ancestors were ultimately defeated by the Romans of whom erased their history, through complete destruction of their settlements

I know. I am talking about what happened a thousand years before that.

[Abramelin]

7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Why not, Abe? 

They seem to be a natural choice. 

And after those battles happily continue trading with the Egyptians? I don't think so.

[Abramelin]

7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

With all of this information about the Sea Peoples, it is amazing that they cannot definitively say who they were, where from etc.

The only sources are Egyptian, like Medinet Habu. Apparently the AE only bothered to write down the names of the peoples, not were exactly they came from. All they said was that some of the invaders came from "the islands".

[Abramelin]

5 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

The way I see it, there are only three reasons they never hit Phoenician towns. 
Either; 

1. they were afraid of Phoenician response;

2. they were paid off not to;

3. they were the Phoenicians.

1. The Phoenicians had no army large enough to go to war with.

2. That's what I think happened.

3. The Egyptians would no doubt recognize them immediately.

And around those times the Phoenicians were mainly traders and explorers, not warriors. That came much later.

[Abramelin]

58 minutes ago, Piney said:

 

Individual Phoenician sailors becoming pirates and hiding at their hometowns is a given if they just raid others. 

That's of course a possibility.

But if any Phoenician pirates would get caught by the Egyptians, the repercussions would be for the Phoenician city-states àfter the war.

[Piney]

Just now, Abramelin said:

That's of course a possibility.

But if any Phoenician pirates would get caught by the Egyptians, the repercussions would be for the Phoenician city-states àfter the war.

How would they know if they were wearing and using foreign arms and armour?

[Abramelin]

6 hours ago, Piney said:

How would they know if they were wearing and using foreign arms and armour?

I assume that as soon as some Phoenician pirate panicked, he yelled out in something 'semitic'. Don't forget: the Egyptians had been trading with the Phoenicians for many, many ages. They would recognize the language at an instant.

[Abramelin]

Interestingly, the Phoenicians were not circumcised.

But several other 'Sea Peoples' were:

http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/sea.htm

Quote:

The Great Karnak inscription of the Pharaoh Merneptah also states that at least three of the Sea Peoples, the Ekwesh, Sheklesh and Sherden, were circumcised. It is interesting to note in any event, the biblical emphasis on the Philistines as uncircumcised and the fact that they are almost the only group so labeled in the biblical corpus suggest that they may have been the archetype of "uncircumcision" for the biblical authors.

Edited to add:

The 'Ekwesh' were always considered to be Greeks. But either that is wrong, or... the Greeks were indeed circumcised back then.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples

And there is a link between Sparta and the Hebrews. Well, according to the Old Testament.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

And there is a link between Sparta and the Hebrews. Well, according to the Old Testament.

1 Maccabees 12:20-21:

"Arius, king of the Spartans, to Onias the high priest, greeting. 21 It has been found in writing concerning the Spartans and the Jews that they are brethren and are of the family of Abraham."

Ant.12:4:10:

"Areus, King of the Lacedemonians, to Onias, sendeth greeting ... we have discovered that both the Jews and the Lacedemonians (Spartans) are of one stock, and are derived from the kindred of Abraham".

[Autistocrates]

11 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Interestingly, the Phoenicians were not circumcised...

Why is that even interesting? How Jewish were the Phoenicians supposed to be?

I once watched a documentary claiming that a small group of their descendants still are active on some Spanish island. Since then, I haven't been able to summon the documentary.

Here's a video concerning their descendants:

https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/108925-002-A/die-legende-ueber-die-gruendung-karthagos/

[Abramelin]

3 hours ago, Autistocrates said:

14 hours ago, Abramelin said:

 

Why is that even interesting? How Jewish were the Phoenicians supposed to be?

It has not much or anything to do with being Hebrew ( not Jews). The Egyptians started the habit for hygenic purposes.

Why is it interesting? Who else then the AE and Hebrews practised circumcision, and why, and from whom did they adopt the habit?

Or... were they related to the Hebrews? It ìs important because it maybe gives us an indication where they came from.

3 hours ago, Autistocrates said:

I once watched a documentary claiming that a small group of their descendants still are active on some Spanish island. Since then, I haven't been able to summon the documentary.

Probably one of the Baleares.

[Abramelin]

8 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Why is it interesting? Who else then the AE and Hebrews practised circumcision, and why, and from whom did they adopt the habit?

At Oued Djerat, in Algeria, engraved rock art with masked bowmen, which feature male circumcision and may be a scene involving ritual, have been dated to earlier than 6000 BP amid the Bubaline Period;[28] more specifically, while possibly dating much earlier than 10,000 BP, rock art walls from the Bubaline Period have been dated between 9200 BP and 5500 BP.[29] The cultural practice of circumcision may have spread from the Central Sahara, toward the south in Sub-Saharan Africa and toward the east in the region of the Nile.[28]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_circumcision

[Autistocrates]

what

[Piney]

3 hours ago, Abramelin said:

At Oued Djerat, in Algeria, engraved rock art with masked bowmen, which feature male circumcision and may be a scene involving ritual, have been dated to earlier than 6000 BP amid the Bubaline Period;[28] more specifically, while possibly dating much earlier than 10,000 BP, rock art walls from the Bubaline Period have been dated between 9200 BP and 5500 BP.[29] The cultural practice of circumcision may have spread from the Central Sahara, toward the south in Sub-Saharan Africa and toward the east in the region of the Nile.[28]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_circumcision

Algonquians circumcised. We called the Iroquois tribes Mengwe or Maagwaa which means "uncircumcised penis"........The hilarious part is the Boyscouts' Order of the Arrow use it as the name of a fictional chief and Last of the Mohicans used it as the name of the baddy.

 

 

 

[Abramelin]

11 hours ago, Autistocrates said:

what

You say the Egyptians had themselves circumcised by slaves. And then what? It proves they were circumcised.

Btw., I remember the image you posted from some site where it was used to show the Egyptians had their pubic hair shaven off.

[Abramelin]

10 hours ago, Piney said:

Algonquians circumcised

Did they also sail the seas?