Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History

[The Puzzler]

17 minutes ago, Piney said:

Kirrukaska means "Head Choppers" and the Circassians aren't even Indo-European, let alone related to the Poles and Balts.

All Indo-Europeans are genetically related and since the Circassians were the Caucasus Hunter-Gathers, they are related to the IE waaayy back.

But they were never in Northern Europe and are indigenous to the areas they reside in.

Language is not genetics.

Language is power. A lot can be gleaned from this fact.

Edited April 29, 2023 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Less than 20% of British genetics is Anglo Saxon, yet what language do they speak? 

[The Puzzler]

I know my genetics and apart from cormac I doubt any of you do. You know your grandfather was Polish…but do you know who you truely are?

I do. My father is R1b, the Iberian derived Celtic proportion of Great Britain that makes up the 80% Dark hair and brown eyes. And my female Haplogroup is K1b1a. Auburn hair, blue eyes. A European Jewish sister from Europe, possibly original even…rather than from the Levant, deriving  from European U’K. I’m totally British in other words. Not Anglo-Saxon however.

We know from this alone, all Ashkenazi Jewish female ancestry comes from Western Europe.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806353/

Edited April 29, 2023 by The Puzzler

[Piney]

31 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Language is not genetics.

Language is power. A lot can be gleaned from this fact.

Circassians don't speak a Indo-European language. The other ones you listed do.

And never call a Estonian a Balt (Lithuanian-Latvian). You would get a shepherd axe between the eyes. 

[The Puzzler]

lol Fair enough and don’t call me Anglo-Saxon. I am not.

[The Puzzler]

My mother in law is apparently “Finnish” but she’s not Saami, she’s derived from the Eastern part, and in finding her fathers birth certificate Carl Nyberg, typical IE, new town,  he was “Russian by birth”….because at the time that part of Finland was owned by Russia. My husband is not Finnish, he’s Russian.

Edited April 29, 2023 by The Puzzler

[Mario Dantas]

2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

No, the Phoenicians ARE NOT the same as nor descended from the Sami/Finns. Archaeologically and genetically, as part of the Canaanites, they are known to be a composite of local inhabitants mixed with migrants from before circa 3000 BC in Northern Syria who themselves descend from peoples from the Bronze Age Caucasus  and Chalcolithic Iran. 
 

cormac

Cormac,

It is always good to see you.

According to Chatgpt, Phoenicians traded with a whole lot of important contemporary civilizations,

Question: if you so vehemently deny it, i ask where did the Phoenicians come from?

Quote

Can you state all other Phoenician contemporary European civilizations, that they traded with?

ChatGPT

The Phoenicians were a major trading civilization in the ancient Mediterranean world, and they had extensive trade networks with other contemporary civilizations. Some of the European civilizations that the Phoenicians traded with include:

1. Greeks: The Greeks were one of the main trading partners of the Phoenicians, and the two civilizations engaged in extensive trade and cultural exchange. The Phoenicians traded goods such as metals, textiles, and wine with the Greeks, and they also influenced Greek culture through the spread of their alphabet and artistic styles.

2. Etruscans: The Etruscans were a civilization that emerged in ancient Italy, and they had extensive trade relations with the Phoenicians. The Phoenicians traded goods such as metals, pottery, and textiles with the Etruscans, and they also influenced Etruscan culture through the spread of their alphabet.

3. Carthaginians: The Carthaginians were a civilization that emerged in North Africa as a Phoenician colony, and they maintained close ties with their Phoenician roots. The Carthaginians engaged in extensive trade with other Mediterranean civilizations, including the Greeks, Romans, and Etruscans.

4. Celts: The Phoenicians also had trade relations with the Celtic peoples who inhabited parts of Europe. The Phoenicians traded goods such as metals, textiles, and glassware with the Celts, and they also influenced Celtic culture through the spread of their artistic styles.

5. Romans: The Romans emerged as a major power in the Mediterranean world in the centuries following the decline of the Phoenicians, but the two civilizations did have some trade relations during their overlapping periods of influence. The Phoenicians traded goods such as metals and textiles with the Romans, and they also influenced Roman culture through the spread of their alphabet and artistic styles.

  But i guess i am not too attached to the idea, it is just something that got me thinking...

 

Quote

The Kalevala dates back to an enormous antiquity. One reason for believing this, lies in the silence of the Kalevala about Russians, Germans, or Swedes, their neighbors. This evidently shows that the poem must have been composed at a time when these nations had but very little or no intercourse with the Finns. The coincidence between the incantations adduced above, proves that these witch-songs date from a time when the Hungarians and the Finns were still united as one people; in other words, to a time at least 3000 years ago. The whole poem betrays no important signs of foreign influence, and in its entire tenor is a thoroughly pagan epic. There are excellent reasons for believing that the story of Mariatta, recited in the 50th Rune, is an ante-Christian legend.

An additional proof of the originality and independent rise of the Kalevala is to be found in its metre. All genuine poetry must have its peculiar verse, just as snow-flakes cannot exist without their peculiar crystalizations. It is thus that the Iliad is inseparably united, and, as it were, immersed in the stately hexametre, and the French epics, in the graceful Alexandrine verse. The metre of the Kalevala is the “eight-syllabled trochaic, with the part-line echo,” and is the characteristic verse of the Finns. The natural speech of this people is poetry. The young men and maidens, the old men and matrons, in their interchange of ideas, unwittingly fall into verse. The genius of their language aids to this end, inasmuch as their words are strongly trochaic.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5186/5186-h/5186-h.htm#chap41

Interestingly, just now i asked Chatgpt for the word phono:

Quote

What is the origin for the word Phono?

ChatGPT

The word "phono" comes from the Greek word "phōnē," which means "sound" or "voice." It is a root word used in many modern English words related to sound, such as "phonograph" (a device for recording and playing back sound), "telephone" (a device for transmitting sound over a distance), and "phonetics" (the study of speech sounds). The term "Phoenician" is also derived from this root word, as the Phoenicians were known for their expertise in crafts and technology related to sound and voice, such as the development of the alphabet and the creation of musical instruments.

 

[cormac mac airt]

8 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

I know my genetics and apart from cormac I doubt any of you do. You know your grandfather was Polish…but do you know who you truely are?

I do. My father is R1b, the Celtic proportion of Great Britain that makes up the 80%. And my female Haplogroup is K1b1a. A European Jewish sister from Europe, possibly original even…rather than from the Levant, deriving  from European U’K. I’m totally British in other words. Not Anglo-Saxon however.

Nope. K1a (my line leading to K1a+195), K1b (your line leading to K1b1a) and K2a all originate in the Near East amongst early Neolithic farmers from Hg K which itself descends from Hg U8b. My specific line, K1a+195 shows evidence of originating from northern Italy near the Alps which is the same general area as Otzi the Iceman although we are not directly related. The earliest your specific line shows up is Neolithic France and the Central European Bronze Age. 

cormac

[The Puzzler]

Aani is the Finnish word for sound. I find this an ancient concept. And in many other words, that went on to derive a context from this original source, sound, that is, speech, the word. Night all. x

[cormac mac airt]

5 minutes ago, Mario Dantas said:

Cormac,

It is always good to see you.

According to Chatgpt, Phoenicians traded with a whole lot of important contemporary civilizations,

Question: if you so vehemently deny it, i ask where did the Phoenicians come from?

  But i guess i am not too attached to the idea, it is just something that got me thinking...

 

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5186/5186-h/5186-h.htm#chap41

Interestingly, just now i asked Chatgpt for the word phono:

 

I can’t deny something that was never true to begin with and I’ve already posted where the Phoenicians came from. 
 

cormac

[The Puzzler]

2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Nope. K1a (my line leading to K1a+195), K1b (your line leading to K1b1a) and K2a all originate in the Near East amongst early Neolithic farmers from Hg K which itself descends from Hg U8b. My specific line, K1a+195 shows evidence of originating from northern Italy near the Alps which is the same general area as Otzi the Iceman although we are not directly related. The earliest your specific line shows up is Neolithic France and the Central European Bronze Age. 

cormac

Oh cuz, you know I speak the truth. Distortions aside. U is European, U’K derives from it. Full stop. Must be where we get our stiff necks from.

[The Puzzler]

Maybe the ark left Western Europe and lobbed on The Levant, after the Doggerland flood you know…

Edited April 29, 2023 by The Puzzler

[cormac mac airt]

14 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Oh cuz, you know I speak the truth. Distortions aside. U is European, U’K derives from it. Full stop. Must be where we get our stiff necks from.

Actually you don’t as Hg U is Western Asian circa 46,000 BP and NOT European. 
 

cormac

[docyabut2]

A fresco from the palace of Pylos, dated around 1300-1200 BC. Depicted... | Download Scientific

 

[docyabut2]

Was that a war of the sea peoples? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pylos

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by docyabut2

[The Puzzler]

24 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Actually you don’t as Hg U is Western Asian circa 46,000 BP and NOT European. 
 

cormac

And we all come from Africa…are we African?

[The Puzzler]

1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

Was that the war of sea people? 

I don’t think they really know but maybe.

[cormac mac airt]

Just now, The Puzzler said:

And we all come from Africa…are we African?

Has nothing to do with your incorrect claim. The genetic evidence shows that Hg U originates in West Asia. 
 

cormac

[The Puzzler]

4 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Has nothing to do with your incorrect claim. The genetic evidence shows that Hg U originates in West Asia. 
 

cormac

5 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Has nothing to do with your incorrect claim. The genetic evidence shows that Hg U originates in West Asia. 
 

cormac

But U’K….I’m talking mtDNA K didn’t, it originated in Europe.

If you can show me U’K originates out of Europe, you win.

[docyabut2]

9 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

I don’t think they really know but maybe.

The enemies of the Mykenaians, on the other hand, were the Minoans, the Hittites, the Egyptians,

 

 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-fresco-from-the-palace-of-Pylos-dated-around-1300-1200-BC-Depicted-is-a-fight-between_fig3_332549968

Edited April 29, 2023 by docyabut2

[Abramelin]

2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

No it doesn’t, but I’m not saying Phoenicians were  Finns. I’m saying the language used in the Aegean and Europe but not in Canaan, which was always Semitic, was a type of Basque or even proto-Finnic. Even Abe agrees with that. 

Yes. I agree with that as long as you mean like 5000+ years BCE.

[Abramelin]

15 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Was that a war of the sea peoples? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pylos

 

Why do you think that?

[cormac mac airt]

4 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

But U’K….I’m talking mtDNA K didn’t, it originated inEurope.

If you can show me U’K originates out of Europe, you win.

Nice swerve but nope: 

Quote

 

Haplogroup K originated in West Asia as a subclade of haplogroup U8b some time between 20,000 and 38,000 years ago.

Based on ancient DNA tests, haplogroup K appears to have been absent among the Western Hunter-Gatherers (WHG) who occupied western and central Europe before the Neolithic period. The K1a, K1b and K2a subclades were found among Early Neolithic farmers (ENF) from the Near East, and subsequently among Early European farmers (EEF).

 

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_K_mtDNA.shtml

cormac

[The Puzzler]

4 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Yes. I agree with that as long as you mean like 5000+ years BCE.

[The Puzzler]

3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Nice swerve but nope: 

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_K_mtDNA.shtml

cormac

I said U’K not U or K. I’m tired, but I’ll assess this info better come tomorrow.

Edited April 29, 2023 by The Puzzler