Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History

[Abramelin]

11 hours ago, Autistocrates said:

what

You say the Egyptians had themselves circumcised by slaves. And then what? It proves they were circumcised.

Btw., I remember the image you posted from some site where it was used to show the Egyptians had their pubic hair shaven off.

[Abramelin]

10 hours ago, Piney said:

Algonquians circumcised

Did they also sail the seas?

[Autistocrates]

43 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

You say the Egyptians had themselves circumcised by slaves...

No. I wrote that they had their genitals washed by them. Where do you see surgical instruments and foreskins, on that mural?

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Did they also sail the seas?

As whalers for Quaker and New Englanders. 

[Abramelin]

8 hours ago, Autistocrates said:

No. I wrote that they had their genitals washed by them. Where do you see surgical instruments and foreskins, on that mural?

I don't see foreskins, but that may be caused by the inaccuracy of the murals. Or they were already circumcised. Well, whatever that mural shows us, the Egyptians were circumcized.

 

Ok, the mural shows us they just 'had their hair done'.

[Abramelin]

8 hours ago, Piney said:

As whalers for Quaker and New Englanders. 

But what about 1200 bce?

[cormac mac airt]

41 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

But what about 1200 bce?

What about it?

cormac

[Abramelin]

On 9/20/2022 at 7:02 PM, Autistocrates said:

Their hieroglyphic mural convinces me that they were uncuts who had slaves do their hygiene for them

Hah, Autisto: I understand now where I went wrong.

I said that the Egyptians had themselves circumcised for hygenic purposes.

And then you posted about slaves doing their hygene for them. That's why I thought you meant that slaves circumcised the Egyptians.

Christ, I can't remember the time I talked about dks for that long.

[Abramelin]

21 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

What about it?

cormac

You want to know too.

Great.

Edited to add:

This is what I meant to ask: did the Algonqians sail the seas around 1200 bce.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Abramelin

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

You want to know too.

Great.

Let's get a couple of things straight that might help.

1) The Philistines entered the Levant from either the Aegean or Mainland Greece circa 1200 BC. Within 200 years their genetics were essentially indistinguishable from indigenous Canaanites. They "may" have been a part of the Sea Peoples but there is nothing definitive to tie them to that group.

2) The early Palestinians were an indigenous offshoot of Canaanites.  

3)  The Phoenicians were also an indigenous offshoot of Canaanites who became prominent in the Levant sometime around 1200 BC.

4)  The Israelites were also an indigenous offshoot of Canaanites. 

I hope that helps. 

cormac

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

But what about 1200 bce?

A advo guy found a 5,000 year old dugout canoe in a cedar swamp in Cumberland County, New Jersey with a wave cutting prow similar to a USCG pursuit boat. It was definitely ocean going and probably used for whaling.

[Abramelin]

10 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

1) The Philistines entered the Levant from either the Aegean or Mainland Greece circa 1200 BC. Within 200 years their genetics were essentially indistinguishable from indigenous Canaanites.

You really think that is possible?

They weren't much befriended with the Canaanites, if we have to believe the Bible.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

7 minutes ago, Piney said:

A advo guy found a 5,000 year old dugout canoe in a cedar swamp in Cumberland County, New Jersey with a wave cutting prow similar to a USCG pursuit boat. It was definitely ocean going and probably used for whaling.

So, in theory, the Algonqians could have crossed the Atlantic?

Even by accident?

Edited September 21, 2022 by Abramelin

[cormac mac airt]

5 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

You really think that is possible?

Absolutely. 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

15 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

You really think that is possible?

They weren't much befriended with the Canaanites, if we have to believe the Bible.

The Bible is NOT a history book, it's meant to promote a Judeo-Christian agenda and should be seen in that light. 

Edit to add:  If one is to take the Bible at face value then mankind is of Sumerian origin, yet science has shown that THAT is a lie. 

cormac

Edited September 21, 2022 by cormac mac airt

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

The Bible is NOT a history book, it's meant to promote a Judeo-Christian agenda and should be seen in that light. 

cormac

I know that. But even though it is not a history book, there must be a kernel of historical truth in it.

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

I know that. But even though it is not a history book, there must be a kernel of historical truth in it.

Sure, said peoples existed. Their origins and interactions, not so much. 

cormac

[Abramelin]

10 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Absolutely. 

cormac

So, in just 200 years the Philistines genetics were indistinguishable from the surrounding Canaanites.

Can you give another example of another time?

[Abramelin]

I once, jokingly, suggested that the Germanic Cananefates (Netherlands, Tacitus) were the descendents of the Phoenicians. And that by 'translating' their tribal name into "Canaan Nefates", or 'the settlement of Canaanites' (in Hebrew).

I was sure it was nonsense  but if it is true that within 200 years of mixing with the natives the genetics of that tribe would become indistinguishable from the surrounding tribes, my crazy idea may even be possible, if I have to believe you, @cormac mac airt

Edited September 21, 2022 by Abramelin

[cormac mac airt]

Just now, Abramelin said:

So, in just 200 years the Philistines genetics were indistinguishable from the surrounding Canaanites.

Can you give another example of another time?

All it takes to essentially disappear, especially since most ancient cultures were patriarchal, is for male lineages to either NOT produce male heirs OR to produce MANY MORE females. Within 200 years the original male lineages can and will fade into the background genetic "noise". Keep in mind that the Y Chromosome Haplogroups and the Mitochondrial Haplogroups DO NOT originate at the same time nor have their migrations met a 1:1 correlation. 

cormac

[+Hammerclaw]

On 9/19/2022 at 1:23 PM, Abramelin said:

The 'Ekwesh' were always considered to be Greeks. But either that is wrong, or... the Greeks were indeed circumcised back then.

Not according to Herodotus:

“…the Colchians (near the Black Sea), the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians are the only races which from ancient times have practiced circumcision. The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves admit that they learned the practice from Egypt…and the Syrians…as well as their neighbors the Macronians (in Greece), say that they learned it only a short time ago from the Colchians (Black Sea inhabitants)….No other nations use circumcision, and all those who do are without doubt following the Egyptian  lead. As between the Egyptians and the Ethiopians, I cannot say which learned from the other, for the custom is evidentially a very ancient one; but I have no doubt that the other nations adopted it as the result of their intercourse with Egypt, and in this belief I am strongly supported by the fact that Phoenicians who have contact with Greece drop the Egyptian usage and allow their children to go uncircumcised.” Herodotus, Histories 2.104

[Abramelin]

13 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Not according to Herodotus:

“…the Colchians (near the Black Sea), the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians are the only races which from ancient times have practiced circumcision. The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves admit that they learned the practice from Egypt…and the Syrians…as well as their neighbors the Macronians (in Greece), say that they learned it only a short time ago from the Colchians (Black Sea inhabitants)….No other nations use circumcision, and all those who do are without doubt following the Egyptian  lead. As between the Egyptians and the Ethiopians, I cannot say which learned from the other, for the custom is evidentially a very ancient one; but I have no doubt that the other nations adopted it as the result of their intercourse with Egypt, and in this belief I am strongly supported by the fact that Phoenicians who have contact with Greece drop the Egyptian usage and allow their children to go uncircumcised.” Herodotus, Histories 2.104

Maybe not, but:

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/360724-sea-peoples-and-the-phoenicians-a-critical-turning-point-in-history/#comment-7458346

[Autistocrates]

2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

...that mural shows us, the Egyptians were circumcized...

I don't see any helmets

[Piney]

2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

So, in theory, the Algonqians could have crossed the Atlantic?

Even by accident?

Doubtful, the crew would be long dead from dehydration and exposure but Eskimos have done it.

[Alchopwn]

On 9/21/2022 at 3:02 AM, Autistocrates said:

Their hieroglyphic mural convinces me that they were uncuts who had slaves do their hygiene for them

My guess is that the guy on the left is being restrained because he is getting his balls waxed.  He's an Egyptian Brazillian.