Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History

[Piney]

3 hours ago, Abramelin said:

There is no evidence here or elsewhere that the Tartessians were expansionist, or even that they had any form of military, on land or at sea.

https://www.visit-andalucia.com/tartessians-tartessos-andalucia/

The translators and researchers for the Jerusalem Bible also connect Tarshish with Tartessos and I agree.

[Abramelin]

13 minutes ago, Piney said:

The translators and researchers for the Jerusalem Bible also connect Tarshish with Tartessos and I agree.

That has been an accepted connection for quite a long time now.

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

That has been an accepted connection for quite a long time now.

In reference to your other post, they were sitting almost right below the "Iberian Pyrite Belt" which was a massive deposit of tin, copper, gold, silver, lead and iron.

No need to be expansionist. 

[Abramelin]

3 minutes ago, Piney said:

No need to be expansionist

Exactly. So no need to participate in attacks against Egypt.

[The Puzzler]

9 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Exactly. So no need to participate in attacks against Egypt.

“Its importance stems in part from the fact that Hebrew biblical passages tend to understand Tarshish as a source of King Solomon's great wealth in metals – especially silver, but also gold, tin, and iron (Ezekiel 27). The metals were reportedly obtained in partnership with King Hiram of Phoenician Tyre (Isaiah 23), and fleets of ships from Tarshish.”

The thing is, we need to squint the timelines..again, even if so, the timeline of 1200BC is too old for Tarshish. 1000BC at best. And that’s early, from 800BC the Phoenicians are found there, mining first, then colonising.

 What people of Tartessos at 1200BC attacked the Aegean? Pre Tartessos…. I am interested, could indeed the indigenous inhabitants of Spain, pre Phoenician arrival, been a Sea People…? The helmet is not working for me, the boat depiction is interesting….There was an earthquake in Lorca, Spain…at this time….they also seem to have depleted their barley supplies….

However, I’d think Tarsis near Lukka was probably the culprit. 

The Turduli, I haven’t looked into enough.

 

[docyabut2]

10 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Docy

Look closer as the second picture is not like the first 2, the first ones are hair.

that first one has hair over his eyes ?

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

that first one has hair over his eyes ?

It's a reconstruction because it was broken.

This one is better:

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

that first one has hair over his eyes ?

Hi Docy

No it is his forehead you can see the lleft eyebrow. The stone is differemt colours but ghe hairline is distinquishable

[Abramelin]

13 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

 What people of Tartessos at 1200BC attacked the Aegean? Pre Tartessos…. I am interested, could indeed the indigenous inhabitants of Spain, pre Phoenician arrival, been a Sea People…?

Again, why would they have been one of the Sea Peoples?

Btw, forget about the Turduli; the Turdetani were the inheritors/successors of the Tartessians.

Btw., the original name of the Tartessian people may have been Conii or Cynetes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynetes

 

[The Puzzler]

4 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Again, why would they have been one of the Sea Peoples?

Btw, forget about the Turduli; the Turdetani were the inheritors/successors of the Tartessians.

Btw., the original name of the Tartessian people may have been Conii or Cynetes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynetes

 

I don’t think they were, being open minded.

Turduli show no lego linguistics with Teresh.

Yes. 

[Abramelin]

23 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

boat depiction is interesting

It's either a broche or a horse's bit according to online sources I quoted earlier.

But yeah, the goddess (?) holding 2 birds facing outwards does indeed look somewhat like a boat.

[docyabut2]

 

Another example of the double bird-head war ship of the Sea Peoples.

 

 

Edited June 4 by docyabut2

[The Puzzler]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

The translators and researchers for the Jerusalem Bible also connect Tarshish with Tartessos and I agree.

I think it is…IF, we are looking at a post 950BC timeframe, when Phoenicians had begun trade with them, pre colonisation. Phoenicians were commissioning mining in Tartessos before they created colonies there. iFrom 900BC absolute earliest, more like 850BC…including the horse bit [brooch) .everything is PHOENICIAN/Tartessian.

Its hard actually to date silver for Solomons mines for example to 1100-1200BC  from “Tartessos”….which didnt exist then. It’s like Phrygian elements in the Trojan War.

Edited June 4 by The Puzzler

[Piney]

33 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

“Its importance stems in part from the fact that Hebrew biblical passages tend to understand Tarshish as a source of King Solomon's great wealth in metals – especially silver, but also gold, tin, and iron (Ezekiel 27). The metals were reportedly obtained in partnership with King Hiram of Phoenician Tyre (Isaiah 23), and fleets of ships from Tarshish.”

The thing is, we need to squint the timelines..again, even if so, the timeline of 1200BC is too old for Tarshish. 1000BC at best. And that’s early, from 800BC the Phoenicians are found there, mining first, then colonising.

 What people of Tartessos at 1200BC attacked the Aegean? Pre Tartessos…. I am interested, could indeed the indigenous inhabitants of Spain, pre Phoenician arrival, been a Sea People…? The helmet is not working for me, the boat depiction is interesting….There was an earthquake in Lorca, Spain…at this time….they also seem to have depleted their barley supplies….

However, I’d think Tarsis near Lukka was probably the culprit. 

The Turduli, I haven’t looked into enough.

 

The historical Solomon was a petty warlord who controlled some copper pits.

[The Puzzler]

4 minutes ago, Piney said:

The historical Solomon was a petty warlord who controlled some copper pits.

Just using him as an example in a time warp.

[Abramelin]

A bronze horse harness.

https://nl.depositphotos.com/181141374/stock-photo-bronze-horse-harness-from-tartessian.html

 

And this one is a brooch depicting Astarte holding 2 birds:

Edited June 4 by Abramelin

[Piney]

14 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

A bronze horse harness.

https://nl.depositphotos.com/181141374/stock-photo-bronze-horse-harness-from-tartessian.html

 

And this one is a brooch depicting Astarte holding 2 birds:

The Tartessian one looks like it might depict the IE horse twins. 

[Alchopwn]

2 hours ago, Piney said:

The translators and researchers for the Jerusalem Bible also connect Tarshish with Tartessos and I agree.

I could only agree if the Phoenecian link is very emphasized.  That -ish ending is not Celtiberian, and nor is "sh" in general afaik.  They are much more Middle Eastern in origin imo.

Edited June 4 by Alchopwn

[Piney]

17 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

I could only agree if the Phonecian link is very emphasized.  That -ish ending is not Celtiberian, and nor is "sh" in general afaik.  They are much more Middle Eastern in origin imo.

There probably was a big Phoenician link.

[Alchopwn]

Just now, Piney said:

There probably was a big Phoenician link.

Well, you'd think that if the Phoenecians are trading with the people of Tartessos that they are likely to call them by a name they can easily pronounce when they refer to them.  The Tartessians also borrowed the Phoenecian script.  You're probably correct, but if it isn't proven then we cannot say for certain.

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

The Tartessian one looks like it might depict the IE horse twins. 

They are both Tartessian.

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

The Tartessian one looks like it might depict the IE horse twins. 

Her symbol was the lion and she was also often associated with the horse and by extension chariots. The dove might be a symbol of her as well, as evidenced by some Bronze Age cylinder seals. The only images identified with absolute certainty as Astarte as these depicting her as a combatant on horseback or in a chariot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astarte

[Piney]

18 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Her symbol was the lion and she was also often associated with the horse and by extension chariots. The dove might be a symbol of her as well, as evidenced by some Bronze Age cylinder seals. The only images identified with absolute certainty as Astarte as these depicting her as a combatant on horseback or in a chariot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astarte

Asherah's sacred birds were doves and the 2 goddesses were connected but I was going by the image of the 2 faced man.

[Abramelin]

24 minutes ago, Piney said:

Asherah's sacred birds were doves and the 2 goddesses were connected but I was going by the image of the 2 faced man.

I know. That's why I mentioned the chariot (pulled by 2 horses) as another symbol of Astarte.

[The Puzzler]

2 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I could only agree if the Phoenecian link is very emphasized.  That -ish ending is not Celtiberian, and nor is "sh" in general afaik.  They are much more Middle Eastern in origin imo.

100%