Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History

[Abramelin]

57 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

look at the tartessos boat with the swan bird built  on it 

That is from the assasinscreed site, lol!

[docyabut2]

 

 

https://peripluscd.wordpress.com/tag/calypso/

[docyabut2]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

That is from the assasinscreed site, lol!

"The pirate ship Tartessos is said to originate from the pillars of Herakles and often ventures into our sacred Aegean Sea to attack merchant ships. Kick it back to where it came from."

―Description of the ship on the message board^[src]

Promotional picture of the Tartessos

The Tartessos was a legendary pirate trireme sailing the Aegean Sea, all the way from its native waters around the Pillars of Hercules.

Claimed for their own by the pirates, the bandits used the ship to attack merchant ships on the Aegean, until the Adrestia commanded by the Spartan misthios Kassandra and captained by Barnabas, engaged the Tartessos and her companions in battle, and sank it during the Peloponnesian War. Kassandra claimed the sail and finery of the Tartessos for her own

https://assassinscreed.fandom.com/wiki/Tartessos

Edited June 7, 2023 by docyabut2

[Abramelin]

4 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

"The pirate ship Tartessos is said to originate from the pillars of Herakles and often ventures into our sacred Aegean Sea to attack merchant ships. Kick it back to where it came from."

―Description of the ship on the message board^[src]

Promotional picture of the Tartessos

The Tartessos was a legendary pirate trireme sailing the Aegean Sea, all the way from its native waters around the Pillars of Hercules.

Claimed for their own by the pirates, the bandits used the ship to attack merchant ships on the Aegean, until the Adrestia commanded by the Spartan misthios Kassandra and captained by Barnabas, engaged the Tartessos and her companions in battle, and sank it during the Peloponnesian War. Kassandra claimed the sail and finery of the Tartessos for her own

https://assassinscreed.fandom.com/wiki/Tartessos

Docy, it's a phantasy site.

[docyabut2]

7 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Docy, it's a phantasy site.

I know but it was interesting 

[The Puzzler]

OK cool, but I’m really over the duck, swan, horse, dragon figureheads for now….

[The Puzzler]

The mention of the Sherdan from the Great Green is before the battle of Kadesh, we should remember this…

The dates are somewhat askew, no,…these words are important….HYPOTHESIZED, CREATION, CONCEPT….is there really anything in it at all?….

“The Sea Peoples are a hypothesized seafaring confederation that attacked ancient Egypt and other regions in the East Mediterranean before and during the Late Bronze Age collapse (1200–900 BCE).^[1][2] Following the creation of the concept in the 19th century, “

[The Puzzler]

“how the city was destroyed. Many scholars have attempted to explain the reasons for its sudden destruction and have put forward a range of interesting pro- posals.1 In this paper there is no need to repeat what has already been offered. It is, however, worth pointing out that the total decline of Ugarit cannot be entirely ascribed to the Sea Peoples, as hitherto widely accepted; there were other exter- nal and internal factors that altogether contributed to the downfall of the city.”

https://fada.birzeit.edu/bitstream/20.500.11889/4717/1/Halayqa- UF-42 the Demise of Ugarit.pdf

Edited June 8, 2023 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Many of the cities apparently attacked by Sea People show signs of not necessarily being attacked by Sea People at all, Troy is one, and as above Ugarit and others…

So was the Sea People attacks as big a deal as we think?….

[docyabut2]

https://www.baslibrary.org/biblical-archaeology-review/17/6/14

[docyabut2]

https://medium.com/the-bronze-age/the-ships-of-the-sea-peoples-part-1-994249af53

 The Tragana Ship is not the boat  its not  a clearer view of the  double bird-head war ship of the Sea

Edited June 8, 2023 by docyabut2

[docyabut2]

   Correct to say its is a clearer view of the  double bird-head war ships of the Sea and its not this boat

Edited June 8, 2023 by docyabut2

[cormac mac airt]

11 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Many of the cities apparently attacked by Sea People show signs of not necessarily being attacked by Sea People at all, Troy is one, and as above Ugarit and others…

So was the Sea People attacks as big a deal as we think?….

For sake of accuracy is that the current consensus or simply a theory from 30 years ago? 

cormac

[docyabut2]

 

 The Phoenician boat is pretty close.

 

[The Puzzler]

12 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

For sake of accuracy is that the current consensus or simply a theory from 30 years ago? 

cormac

I think the current. 
PS Oh I get what Ur saying, I don’t know when the paper was dated actually….but in looking for that I found this…but if you have new evidence, please show us.

”Did Ugarit hold alliance with the Sea Peoples, as proposed by Wachsmann, or did it take part in a conspiracy against either Egypt or Ḫatti and Karkamiš, and was then punished by destruc- tion? From the documents of Ramses III there is no sign of any threat towards Ugarit: the city enjoyed good relations with Egypt. The Egyptians and Assyrians never reached as far north-west as Mukiš during their wars with Ḫatti (Astour, 1965, 258). Ugarit may also have realized the weakness of Ḫatti (Singer, 2000, 22) and taken the opportunity to free itself from the Hittite yoke and seek alli- ance with the Egyptians. As has been proven by archaeological evidence, no heavy battle can have taken place within the city, since only a few scattered arrow-heads (55 in the entire city) and no corpses were ever found. The Sea Peoples probably invaded the city”

 

Ugarit built ships, shipbuilders, Hittites used Ugarit built ships, from that port of ship builders at the time…so after a team up with Lukka, where the Kings ships were, “all my ships are in Lukka” …it presents as an uprising from the Ugarit ships who now support Lukka, after the Battle of Kadesh, and as reported by the vizier of Cypress….that the  ships as mentioned, were invading Ugarit itself,  be aware! Said the Vizier. 
A light invasion but enough to damage it. Anti Hittite uprising. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by The Puzzler

[docyabut2]

Medium Assault Raider - Celtic Warriors - Arverni - Total War: Rome II - Royal Military Academy

Visit

Creator: Picasa 

[The Puzzler]

8 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Medium Assault Raider - Celtic Warriors - Arverni - Total War: Rome II - Royal Military Academy

Visit

Creator: Picasa 

The ships are certainly interesting 

[atalante]

2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Ugarit built ships, shipbuilders, Hittites used Ugarit built ships, from that port of ship builders at the time…so after a team up with Lukka, where the Kings ships were, “all my ships are in Lukka” …it presents as an uprising from the Ugarit ships who now support Lukka, after the Battle of Kadesh, and as reported by the vizier of Cypress….that the  ships as mentioned, were invading Ugarit itself,  be aware! Said the Vizier. 
A light invasion but enough to damage it. Anti Hittite uprising. 

Political organization, at the time when Ugarit was attacked by ships of the Sea Peoples is demonstrated in the following video clip.  The king of Cyprus ruled over Ugarit; and the Hittites were the overlord of the king of Cyprus.   

So apparently, Ugarit society collapsed in an anti-Hittite uprising.   

[docyabut2]

https://medievalarmor.store/celtic-armor/

[Abramelin]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:11 AM, docyabut2 said:

   Correct to say its is a clearer view of the  double bird-head war ships of the Sea and its not this boat

Yeah. It's a single bird boat.

[Abramelin]

8 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

https://medievalarmor.store/celtic-armor/

I didn't even click your link.

Because it says "medieval".

[Abramelin]

11 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Medium Assault Raider - Celtic Warriors - Arverni - Total War: Rome II - Royal Military Academy

Visit

Creator: Picasa 

That's from Julius Caesar's time.

This topic is about 1200 BCE.

[Abramelin]

On 6/8/2023 at 1:55 PM, The Puzzler said:

Many of the cities apparently attacked by Sea People show signs of not necessarily being attacked by Sea People at all, Troy is one, and as above Ugarit and others…

So was the Sea People attacks as big a deal as we think?….

What signs?

[The Puzzler]

4 hours ago, Abramelin said:

What signs?

See post #1037 for the link.

”. It is, however, worth pointing out that the total decline of Ugarit cannot be entirely ascribed to the Sea Peoples, as hitherto widely accepted; there were other exter- nal and internal factors that altogether contributed to the downfall of the city. This study investigates Ugarit’s external relationships principally with Ḫatti and Karkamiš. These relations, which were characterized by mistrust and tension, have rarely been considered in the literature available, but in this article they will be given more weight. By tracing the tangled relationships between Ugarit and the Hittite overlords, an intense conflict, which took place mainly during the city’s final days, becomes apparent. In order to illustrate this, a brief presenta- tion of Ugarit’s political situation at the end of the Late Bronze Age is neces- sary.”

Here…https://fada.birzeit.edu/bitstream/20.500.11889/4717/1/Halayqa- UF-42 the Demise of Ugarit.pdf

 

BUT more specific to your question…I mean…it does appear the Sea People attacked many of the towns but was not the reason they fell so hard to begin with, final nails, yes.

Edited June 10, 2023 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

15 hours ago, atalante said:

Political organization, at the time when Ugarit was attacked by ships of the Sea Peoples is demonstrated in the following video clip.  The king of Cyprus ruled over Ugarit; and the Hittites were the overlord of the king of Cyprus.   

So apparently, Ugarit society collapsed in an anti-Hittite uprising.   

atalante is onto it.

This is not about some groups of people looking to migrate because of famine.

This is an all out political play of falling governments and revenge.