Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History

[The Puzzler]

7 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

 

Hi all but I got to find out who are the sea peoples? and who has these boats the  double bird-head war ships of the Sea?

I kind of actually think you’re right, even in the horse bit/brooch….there is something there in that connection….I can’t find it within any other culture and the brooch does appear to be the same….HOWEVER, the double ship duck billed brooch is from Phoenician times in the area of Tartessos….but still….it was a good find by you I will say that.

[The Puzzler]

Tartessos has little evidence of people there c.1200BC…however we do know people were certainly in Iberia and Spain at this time…so maybe it was not Tartessians as such, but an earlier “Tartessian”…the name Teresh may not be them…but another possible name…I recall reading Sicily was settled by Iberians….

In fact, there was an earthquake c. 1200BC that hit the Lorca (Spain) area and affected the barley growing, to which is seems they used to trade to the Mediterranean..

Edited June 18 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

I’ll show you a crown from this age, from Archaeology magazine….

Kinda looks like that circle topped head dress/helmet.

Second, this is the cover….”How civil unrest caused a revolution”.

Buried in pithoi, large pottery urns.  I need to downsize the file pic. 

But this is exactly what I’ve said all through this topic. Civil unrest caused the revolution (of The Sea People). 

The attendance of Tartessian warriors could be considered, in light of all this.

[The Puzzler]

[atalante]

13 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

 

Hi all but I got to find out who are the sea peoples? and who has these boats the  double bird-head war ships of the Sea?

docyabut,

From the standpoint of shipbuilding, the ships in this mural are important because they show the earliest known "battle" between ships with "brailed sails". (The bird heads may be only secondary importance.) 

With brailed sails, ships could sail directly across a sea instead of hugging the shoreline.  These Peoples of the Sea may have been pirate groups, who seemingly came "out of the sea" (while using brailed sails) to attack.     

https://scholar.harvard.edu/emanuel/sea-peoples-brailed-sail-egypt_ASOR-2012?destination=node/89086&page=3&pager_id=0&sv_list_box_delta=1592928774

Edited June 18 by atalante

[The Puzzler]

The answer to the main question Abe has been asking in this thread…why would Phoenicia attack Egypt… IMO, is because Egypt had attacked Ushu and Tyre in the days of Seti I and Ramesses II.

[Abramelin]

2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Tartessos has little evidence of people there c.1200BC

Whoever there was, they may not have called themselves Tartessians.

What was there:

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/South-Western_Iberian_Bronze

2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

the name Teresh may not be them…but another possible name…

You'll remember what I posted about the name Tartessos:

Ashtarte/sh.t.r.t  >  t.r.t.sh/Tartess-os

I think Tartessos wasn't the original name of the area.

2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

In fact, there was an earthquake c. 1200BC that hit the Lorca (Spain

It was part of the 'spray of earthquakes' that affected the countries around the Med.

[Abramelin]

15 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

The answer to the main question Abe has been asking in this thread…why would Phoenicia attack Egypt… IMO, is because Egypt had attacked Ushu and Tyre in the days of Seti I and Ramesses II.

But the ships depicted in the murals don't show Phoenician ships, which were wellknown.

[Abramelin]

2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

I recall reading Sicily was settled by Iberians….

Maybe you mean Sardinia instead of Sicily?

[The Puzzler]

2 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Maybe you mean Sardinia instead of Sicily?

Probably….

[Abramelin]

2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

I’ll show you a crown from this age, from Archaeology magazine….

Kinda looks like that circle topped head dress/helmet.

Second, this is the cover….”How civil unrest caused a revolution”.

Buried in pithoi, large pottery urns.  I need to downsize the file pic. 

But this is exactly what I’ve said all through this topic. Civil unrest caused the revolution (of The Sea People). 

The attendance of Tartessian warriors could be considered, in light of all this.

I can read what's to the right of the photo: El Argar.

That's south-eastern Spain, so nòt Tartessos which was located in SW-Iberia.

[The Puzzler]

5 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

But the ships depicted in the murals don't show Phoenician ships, which were wellknown.

No they don’t, hence my thought of pre Tartessians pre Phoenician but indigenous 

[Abramelin]

Just now, The Puzzler said:

Probably….

Very likely: both the Iberians and Sardinians are genetically linked.

[The Puzzler]

Just now, Abramelin said:

I can read what's to the right of the photo: El Argar.

That's south-eastern Spain, so nòt Tartessos which was located in SW-Iberia.

that’s right, I don’t  think Tartessos was around the, point being, other Spanish Iberians were.

[The Puzzler]

8 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Maybe you mean Sardinia instead of Sicily?

No, seems I meant Sicily….so many posts, I’m getting old but yeah, Sicily is what I knew….not Sardinia.

”The original classical-era inhabitants of Sicily comprised three defined groups of the ancient peoples of Italy: the Sicani, the Elymians and the Sicels. The most prominent and by far the earliest of these were the Sicani, who (Thucydides writes) arrived from the Iberian Peninsula”

Edited June 18 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

4 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

that’s right, I don’t  think Tartessos was around the, point being, other Spanish Iberians were.

I think they were around:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iberia_Bronze.gif

Edited June 18 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

I think they were around:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iberia_Bronze.gif

OK…did you see my edit, I don’t think it was Sardinia but indeed Sicily as I said, do you have evidence for Iberians being in Sardinia?

[Abramelin]

3 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

No, seems I meant Sicily….so many posts, I’m getting old but yeah, Sicily is what I knew….not Sardinia.

”The original classical-era inhabitants of Sicily comprised three defined groups of the ancient peoples of Italy: the Sicani, the Elymians and the Sicels. The most prominent and by far the earliest of these were the Sicani, who (Thucydides writes) arrived from the Iberian Peninsula”

Yeah, but the wiki page about the Sicani also quotes other ancient historians saying they were indigenous or Illyrians.

[The Puzzler]

The people of the Bronze Age Spain are well-defined. I see no Tartessos. I wanted to put the whole page, I had to get under 1000kB to load 

[The Puzzler]

1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

Yeah, but the wiki page about the Sicani also quotes other ancient historians saying they were indigenous or Illyrians.

yes, it does….however my point was it was Sicily, not Sardinia I was referring to….as being inhabited by Iberians.

[The Puzzler]

9 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I think they were around:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iberia_Bronze.gif

Who made this map? Mario, Georgios… I know his style, VNSP…what is that? I know, do you?.

Edited June 18 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

5 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

, do you have evidence for Iberians being in Sardinia?

I said they were genetically linked:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6168346/

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, The Puzzler said:

Who made this map? Mario? I know his style.

From the link:

Sources: diverse (notable: F. Jordá Cerdá et al. History of Spain 1: Prehistory. Gredos ed. 1986. ISBN: 84-249-1015-X

[Abramelin]

5 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

The people of the Bronze Age Spain are well-defined. I see no Tartessos. I wanted to put the whole page, I had to get under 1000kB to load 

You think SW-Iberia was uninhabited?

[The Puzzler]

1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

I said they were genetically linked:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6168346/

Oh….ok….but it’s not who I said..,Iberians Sicily. not that I don’t expect genetics to cross from Iberia to Sardinia.