Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History

[Abramelin]

6 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

https://historia.nationalgeographic.com.es/a/tartessos-el-enigma-del-reino-perdido-de-la-peninsula-iberica_6233

Translated:

https://historia-nationalgeographic-com-es.translate.goog/a/tartessos-el-enigma-del-reino-perdido-de-la-peninsula-iberica_6233?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

[docyabut2]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Translated:

https://historia-nationalgeographic-com-es.translate.goog/a/tartessos-el-enigma-del-reino-perdido-de-la-peninsula-iberica_6233?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

I  think they were  not the  phoenician war ships  but the tartessos  war ships, because the  phoenician war ships have the shapes of horses on their ships where the tartessos  ships, have the shapes of ducks

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by docyabut2

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

I  think they were  not the  phoenician war ships  but the tartessos  war ships, because the  phoenician war ships have the shapes of horses on their ships where the tartessos  ships, have the shapes of ducks

 

 

Hi Docy

Some of those ships you posted pictures of are pretty boy ships not meant for war and more for swooning the port ladies.

Edited June 18, 2023 by jmccr8

[The Puzzler]

14 hours ago, Antigonos said:

It was a joke that fell flat, nothing personal lol.

lol….I think you thought my response was not tardy, when I meant my time frame in answering was, all good friend 

[The Puzzler]

12 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Another thing about the Shardana: they were present among the Sea Peoples, but their ships were not depicted on the Egyptian murals:

 

Odd, isn't it?

What’s with the reindeers? 

[Trelane]

7 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

What’s with the reindeers? 

Possible revered imagery and symbolism from their past?

[Tom1200]

18 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

I  think they were  not the  phoenician war ships  but the tartessos  war ships, because the  phoenician war ships have the shapes of horses on their ships where the tartessos  ships, have the shapes of ducks

"And many a city fell to the ravaging hordes without a struggle; paralysed in terror at the sight of The Duck.

"But naval warfare did not reach its pinnacle for almost a thousand years, when the Romans discovered the awe-inspiring power of The Rabbit prow.

"Entire landlocked nations committed mass suicide at the mere thought that the Lepus Navis might be only a thousand miles away."

https://en.m.wikipedia/Roman_Rabbit_Ships.

 

Sorry... On Call this week... not getting much sleep.  What's this whole thread about?

[Antigonos]

19 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

I  think they were  not the  phoenician war ships  but the tartessos  war ships, because the  phoenician war ships have the shapes of horses on their ships where the tartessos  ships, have the shapes of ducks

 

 

Since the Greeks used boars, they weren’t Dorians either.

[Abramelin]

9 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

What’s with the reindeers? 

Or simply deers.

No idea. But the important part is, that you don't see that on the Egyptian murals.

But the Shardana/Sardinians wère present.

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Tom1200 said:

Sorry... On Call this week... not getting much sleep.  What's this whole thread about?

A couple of things.

1. Who were the Sea Peoples?

2. Why did the Phoenician cities get out unharmed while every other city and nation around them got attacked and sacked by these Sea People (and the landlubbers they associated with)?

3. What started all this mayhem in Europe, the Med, Northern Africa and the Middle East around 1200 BCE?

That's about it.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

20 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

their ships where the tartessos  ships, have the shapes of ducks

You don't even know if that figurine (broche) represented a ship.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I remember I once posted an Iberian cave painting depicting ancient ships.

Not sure, but I think it was in the thread I started for Docy, the thread about Tartessos being Atlantis.

The title had Georgios Díaz-Montexano's name in it.

For some goddamn reason I can't find it right now

[Abramelin]

This is that thread (I made a spelling error) :

 

 

[Trelane]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Or simply deers.

No idea. But the important part is, that you don't see that on the Egyptian murals.

But the Shardana/Sardinians wère present.

Do we know what the range of deer reindeer were during those times and are there any cultures from around that time that predominantly used its symbolism? Sorry, again I'm but a learner in these topics.

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Trelane said:

Do we know what the range of deer reindeer were during those times and are there any cultures from around that time that predominantly used its symbolism? Sorry, again I'm but a learner in these topics.

Reindeer were as far north around that time as they are now.

So, the Sardinians/Shardana/Nuraghians must  have used a deer head on the bows of their ships.

But deer antlers were kind of popular back then. Remember the Gundestrup bowl?

 

[docyabut2]

3 hours ago, Abramelin said:

You don't even know if that figurine (broche) represented a ship.

I think that (broche)did represented a ship.:)

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by docyabut2

[+joc]

10 hours ago, Abramelin said:

A couple of things.

1. Who were the Sea Peoples?

2. Why did the Phoenician cities get out unharmed while every other city and nation around them got attacked and sacked by these Sea People (and the landlubbers they associated with)?

3. What started all this mayhem in Europe, the Med, Northern Africa and the Middle East around 1200 BCE?

That's about it.

Answer to 1. and 2.    Well, if everyone's house in the neighborhood has been robbed except your next door neighbors house...  Hmmm...that's a tough one...

Answer to 3.  Because they could!  And they were Narcissistic and therefore felt entitled.  Yertle the Turtle syndrome.  (Dr. Seuss)

 

[The Puzzler]

Struggling to find any duck boats but here’s one, the symbolism on the boat is Celtic and the Goddess is Sequana.

Celts were in Iberia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequana

 

[docyabut2]

On 6/18/2023 at 9:34 AM, atalante said:

docyabut,

From the standpoint of shipbuilding, the ships in this mural are important because they show the earliest known "battle" between ships with "brailed sails". (The bird heads may be only secondary importance.) 

With brailed sails, ships could sail directly across a sea instead of hugging the shoreline.  These Peoples of the Sea may have been pirate groups, who seemingly came "out of the sea" (while using brailed sails) to attack.     

https://scholar.harvard.edu/emanuel/sea-peoples-brailed-sail-egypt_ASOR-2012?destination=node/89086&page=3&pager_id=0&sv_list_box_delta=1592928774

You could be right the "brailed sails were hook on to the ducks and to sail across a sea ,but they still are the ducks

[+joc]

7 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Struggling to find any duck boats but here’s one, the symbolism on the boat is Celtic and the Goddess is Sequana.

Celts were in Iberia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequana

 

There is a picture of a duck figurehead on a ship from the 19th century...that's all I found...but it is copyrighted so I'm not sharing it here.

 

[Abramelin]

11 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Celts were in Iberia.

Celts originated in Iberia, and then spread out to Ireland, the UK and the rest of Europe.

But the Tartessians were no Celts.

And probably not related to the present Basques, but more to the present Berber.

[Abramelin]

3 hours ago, joc said:

There is a picture of a duck figurehead on a ship from the 19th century...that's all I found...but it is copyrighted so I'm not sharing it here.

 

Post a screenshot.

[Swede]

12 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Struggling to find any duck boats but here’s one, the symbolism on the boat is Celtic and the Goddess is Sequana.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/duck-boat-world-war-ii-dukw-still-has-some-quack-they-helped-beat-hitler-165035

/

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Post a screenshot.

HMS Gannet figurehead

 

[The Puzzler]

18 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Celts originated in Iberia, and then spread out to Ireland, the UK and the rest of Europe.

But the Tartessians were no Celts.

And probably not related to the present Basques, but more to the present Berber.

Hmm, I’d kinda challenge that one…at 1200BC.