Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History

[Abramelin]

10 hours ago, Autistocrates said:

The sculpter was probably some swishy type of whom got kicks from watching teens lodging their foreskins behind their knobs. From here, it doesen't look like it's been snipped

Great how you manipulated my post!

[Abramelin]

6 hours ago, Piney said:

Atlantis is a brain fart

Agreed. But what does that got to do with the topic?

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Agreed. But what does that got to do with the topic?

It's my "canned" edit response for this section.

 

[Autistocrates]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Great how you manipulated my post!

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Autistocrates

[Hyperionxvii]

Am I the only one to whom it is obvious who these sea peoples is? Its them of course! The aliens! If you could capture one with your 1990 flip phone, you'd know! You modernists with your new fangled Apple and Samsung devices, you know nothing. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Hyperionxvii

[cormac mac airt]

On 9/25/2022 at 9:27 AM, Abramelin said:

Ok. So you mentioned leather sails used by the Veneti, and the De Bello Gallico, and it's indeed there.

But then I also searched for a wikipage about these Veneti:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneti_(Gaul)

Quote:

Recently a study in France has shown that there is a remarkable correlation between the geographical distribution of a genetic disease (Arrhythmogenic Right Ventricular Dysplasia (ARVD)) and the different Venetian settlement sites: Vistula basin, Adriatic Gulf and Armorican Massif in particular. This highlights the migratory flow of this people through the ages from their initial settlement site in Asia Minor from the 13th century BC.

Wtf??

So I downloaded the paper from the link (it's right after 'Recently' from my quote).

The title: "Sur la trace des Vénètes Histoire de la diffusion de la dysplasie ventriculaire droite arythmogène (DVDA) à travers l’Europe" by Herbert.

And this is written in the beginning of the paper:

"Les Vénètes sont un ensemble de peuples indo-européens ayant migré à partir du XIIIe siècle avant J.-C., de la mer Noire vers l’Europe centrale, septentrionale et occidentale sans se mélanger aux autres populations rencontrées. La répartition actuelle en Europe Occidentale de la DVDA se superpose assez fidèlement aux foyers de peuplement vénètes : bassin de la Vistule, golfe de l’Adriatique et Massif Armoricain en particulier."

In English:

"The Veneti are a group of Indo-European peoples who migrated from the 13th century BC, from the Black Sea to central, northern and western Europe without mixing with other populations they encountered. The current distribution in Western Europe of the DVDA is superimposed fairly faithfully on the Venetian population centers: basin of the Vistula, Gulf of the Adriatic and Armorican Massif in particular."

A map from the pdf:

These Veneti originated quite close from the Phoenician homeland, ànd started their migration during the time of the Sea Peoples.

The Black Sea isn't "quite close" to the Phoenicians who originated in the area of Israel, some 600 miles away and the Veneti were in their respective areas by the 13th century BC whereas the Sea Peoples don't become prominent until circa 1200 BC so around 100 years later. 

cormac

[Abramelin]

4 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

The Black Sea isn't "quite close" to the Phoenicians who originated in the area of Israel, some 600 miles away and the Veneti were in their respective areas by the 13th century BC whereas the Sea Peoples don't become prominent until circa 1200 BC so around 100 years later. 

cormac

Not saying the Veneti were the same people as the Phoenicians, but the Phoenicians had also ventured north of Canaan, into Anatolia.

And.. 13th century bce doesn't have to differ a 100 years from 1200 bce.

[Piney]

14 hours ago, Hyperionxvii said:

Am I the only one to whom it is obvious who these sea peoples is? Its them of course! The aliens! If you could capture one with your 1990 flip phone, you'd know! You modernists with your new fangled Apple and Samsung devices, you know nothing. 

I have a Motorola flip phone.....

 

[Abramelin]

8 hours ago, Abramelin said:

And.. 13th century bce doesn't have to differ a 100 years from 1200 bce.

I was in a hurry.

The 13th century bce runs from 1300 bce to 1201 bce.

So, something occuring in the 13th century bce could be just a couple of years distant from 1200 bce.

[cormac mac airt]

30 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I was in a hurry.

The 13th century bce runs from 1300 bce to 1201 bce.

So, something occuring in the 13th century bce could be just a couple of years distant from 1200 bce.

The Veneti were in their respective separate locations circa 13th century BC meaning they were nowhere near the Phoenician lands before Phoenician expansion circa 1200 BC. 
 

cormac

[Abramelin]

2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

The Veneti were in their respective separate locations circa 13th century BC meaning they were nowhere near the Phoenician lands before Phoenician expansion circa 1200 BC. 
 

cormac

This has nothing to do with Phoenician "expansion" into Anatolia. It has to do with their presence in Anatolia. They were traders, remember?

 

A Short History of the Phoenicians: Revised Edition

By Mark Woolmer:

link to book

 

[cormac mac airt]

34 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

This has nothing to do with Phoenician "expansion" into Anatolia. It has to do with their presence in Anatolia. They were traders, remember?

 

A Short History of the Phoenicians: Revised Edition

By Mark Woolmer:

link to book

 

Then leave the Veneti out of the conversation after all it WAS YOU who made the incorrect statement “These Veneti originated quite close from the Phoenician homeland, ànd started their migration during the time of the Sea Peoples”. 
 

cormac

[Abramelin]

7 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Then leave the Veneti out of the conversation after all it WAS YOU who made the incorrect statement “These Veneti originated quite close from the Phoenician homeland, ànd started their migration during the time of the Sea Peoples”. 
 

cormac

Ok, they may not have lived close to Canaan, but there is a big possibility they had been in contact with Phoenicians in Anatolia.

But whoever these Veneti were, or whoever they had been in contact with, they went on the move in the same age the turmoil in Europe started  and caused the rise of the Sea Peoples.

 

[Abramelin]

And as an extra: Phoenician inscriptions have been found as far north as the Caucasus: the Maykop culture. I have no link to prove it, but I remember I read about it in a book, ages ago. You can bet I will try to find a link to prove it.

 

[cormac mac airt]

24 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Ok, they may not have lived close to Canaan, but there is a big possibility they had been in contact with Phoenicians in Anatolia.

But whoever these Veneti were, or whoever they had been in contact with, they went on the move in the same age the turmoil in Europe started  and caused the rise of the Sea Peoples.

Unless you have evidence to the contrary then it’s not likely. For the Veneti to have been in their respective locations by the 13th century BC they likely left the Black Sea region at least 100+ years before that meaning at a minimum the 14th century BC which PRECEDED the Phoenician expansion by a few centuries minimum. I think you’re needlessly conflating timeframes. 
 

cormac

[docyabut2]

The Jews were made by the Goliaths (  that moved there from the thera  islands  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath

[cormac mac airt]

5 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

The Jews were made by the Goliaths (  that moved there from the thera  islands  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath

That's nowhere in evidence. 

cormac

[docyabut2]

32 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

That's nowhere in evidence. 

cormac

they came from the  thera  islands .and over took  over some of the cannon Israel.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by docyabut2

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

they came from the  thera  islands .and over took  over some of the cannon Israel. 

No, they didn't. 

cormac

[docyabut2]

 Goliath was a Philistine (Hebrew: פְּלִשְׁתִּים‎ Pəlīštīm) were an ancient people who lived on the south coast of Canaan

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines

Edited September 28, 2022 by docyabut2

[docyabut2]

The Hebrew Bible mentions in two places that they originate from Caphtor (possibly Crete/Minoa).^[5] The Septuagint connects the Philistines to other biblical groups such as Caphtorim and the Cherethites and Pelethites, which have been identified with the island of Crete.

 

The Philistines are known for their biblical conflict with the Israelites.

 

 Most scholars agree that the Philistines were of Greek origin,^[9][10] and that they came from Crete and the rest of the Aegean Islands 

Edited September 28, 2022 by docyabut2

[cormac mac airt]

4 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

 Goliath was a Philistine (Hebrew: פְּלִשְׁתִּים‎ Pəlīštīm) were an ancient people who lived on the south coast of Canaan

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines

It doesn't say what you claimed, namely  "The Jews were made by the Goliaths". The Philistines ARE NOT the ancestors of the Jews.

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

The Hebrew Bible mentions in two places that they originate from Caphtor (possibly Crete/Minoa).^[5] The Septuagint connects the Philistines to other biblical groups such as Caphtorim and the Cherethites and Pelethites, which have been identified with the island of Crete.

It doesn't matter where the Philistines originated, they WERE NOT the ancestors of the Jews. 

cormac

[docyabut2]

5 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

It doesn't matter where the Philistines originated, they WERE NOT the ancestors of the Jews. 

cormac

According to the Hebrew Bible narrative, Jewish ancestry is traced back to the Biblical patriarchs such as Abraham, his son Isaac, Isaac's son Jacob, and the Biblical matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, Leah, and Rachel, who lived in Canaan

I believe  that to  but the first ones were the  Philistines.

[cormac mac airt]

4 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

According to the Hebrew Bible narrative, Jewish ancestry is traced back to the Biblical patriarchs such as Abraham, his son Isaac, Isaac's son Jacob, and the Biblical matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, Leah, and Rachel, who lived in Canaan

I believe  that to  but the first ones were the  Philistines.

Nope. The Bible suggests that the Biblical patriarchs originated from Sumer/Mesopotamia which is NOWHERE NEAR Thera or the Aegean. 

cormac