Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History


Abramelin
 Share

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

It doesn't matter where the Philistines originated, they WERE NOT the ancestors of the Jews. 

cormac

According to the Hebrew Bible narrative, Jewish ancestry is traced back to the Biblical patriarchs such as Abraham, his son Isaac, Isaac's son Jacob, and the Biblical matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, Leah, and Rachel, who lived in Canaan

I believe  that to  but the first ones were the  Philistines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
4 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

According to the Hebrew Bible narrative, Jewish ancestry is traced back to the Biblical patriarchs such as Abraham, his son Isaac, Isaac's son Jacob, and the Biblical matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, Leah, and Rachel, who lived in Canaan

I believe  that to  but the first ones were the  Philistines.

Nope. The Bible suggests that the Biblical patriarchs originated from Sumer/Mesopotamia which is NOWHERE NEAR Thera or the Aegean. 

cormac

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Nope. The Bible suggests that the Biblical patriarchs originated from Sumer/Mesopotamia which is NOWHERE NEAR Thera or the Aegean. 

cormac

https://www.livescience.com/55429-philistines.html

 

The Philistines were a group of people who arrived in the Levant (an area that includes modern-day Israel, Gaza,

 

https://www.livescience.com/55429-philistines.html

Edited by docyabut2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

You can misapply links all you want  the Bible says Abraham came from UR OF THE CHALDEES. That city is in southern Iraq. 

cormac

I know the bible said  Abraham came from UR OF THE CHALDEES. That city is in southern Iraq.

but  i do know who were the first ones in Israel`s  Canaan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

I know the bible said  Abraham came from UR OF THE CHALDEES. That city is in southern Iraq.

but  i do know who were the first ones in Israel`s  Canaan

The Israelites in Canaan have nothing, relation related, to do with the Philistines. 

cormac 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

I know the bible said  Abraham came from UR OF THE CHALDEES. That city is in southern Iraq.

but  i do know who were the first ones in Israel`s  Canaan

Yes…. The canaanites were the first in Canaan, then God told the Hebrew to indulge in a bit of genocide.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Yes…. The canaanites were the first in Canaan, then God told the Hebrew to indulge in a bit of genocide.

The downside of the Biblical argument is that the Israelites AND the Phoenicians were both offshoot groups of indigenous Canaanites, the former having NEVER been Sumerian/Mesopotamian in origin to begin with. 

cormac

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, cormac mac airt said:

The downside of the Biblical argument is that the Israelites AND the Phoenicians were both offshoot groups of indigenous Canaanites, the former having NEVER been Sumerian/Mesopotamian in origin to begin with. 

cormac

And I’d love to see historical evidence that there were ever Jews in Egypt as a slave class rather than roving traders.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

And I’d love to see historical evidence that there were ever Jews in Egypt as a slave class rather than roving traders.

I think we'll both be waiting for Hell to freeze over first before that happens. :w00t:

cormac

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

For the Veneti to have been in their respective locations by the 13th century BC they likely left the Black Sea region at least 100+ years before that meaning at a minimum the 14th century BC which PRECEDED the Phoenician

They could have travelled over land or by using rivers to arrive in Brittany, the north of the Adriatic and the Vistula within a year.

I think they traded with the people in these locations.

They could have managed reaching these locations within a couple of years. Apparently they were wellknown and respected, and were allowed to pass those tribes who went south to cross the Med.

Btw., according to this Herbert I posted the paper of, they didn't mix during their travels to their final destinations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 9/29/2022 at 12:10 AM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

And I’d love to see historical evidence that there were ever Jews in Egypt as a slave class rather than roving traders.

You won't see that because there were no "Jews" back then.

However, there are AE depictions of 'Asiatic', or Canaanite/Semitic slaves forming and baking bricks.

1462691577_LevantineAsiaticsAE.thumb.jpg.b5b2f450d662f291cade86826d212a60.jpg

Edited by Abramelin
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
On 9/28/2022 at 11:52 PM, docyabut2 said:

I know the bible said  Abraham came from UR OF THE CHALDEES. That city is in southern Iraq.

but  i do know who were the first ones in Israel`s  Canaan

Docy, please read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur_of_the_Chaldees

And you'll know that the location of  "Ur of the Chaldees" is based on whatever is made of the original name of these 'Chaldees'.

"Ur" may have been Urfa in Anatolia.

Just saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Abramelin said:

You won't see that because there were no "Jews" back then.

However, there are AE depictions of 'Asiatic', or Canaanite/Semitic slaves forming and baking bricks.

1462691577_LevantineAsiaticsAE.thumb.jpg.b5b2f450d662f291cade86826d212a60.jpg

You’re right but that also means the Asiatics above can’t, with any specificity, be equated with either Israel, first mention being the Merneptah Stele c. 1208 BC NOR Hebrews, first mention being the Moabite stone altar inscription, late 9th-early 8Th century BC both of which are in reference to specific peoples. 
 

cormac

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

You’re right but that also means the Asiatics above can’t, with any specificity, be equated with either Israel, first mention being the Merneptah Stele c. 1208 BC NOR Hebrews, first mention being the Moabite stone altar inscription, late 9th-early 8Th century BC both of which are in reference to specific peoples. 
 

cormac

I never equated them with Isrealites nor Hebrews, but they most certainly were Canaanites, or 'Asiatics'.

And that's what Hebrews were.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I never equated them with Isrealites nor Hebrews, but they most certainly were Canaanites, or 'Asiatics'.

And that's what Hebrews were.

Actually “Asiatics” doesn’t necessarily mean Canaanites it can also be used for other Semitic groups. Some names were more generic than others. 
 

cormac

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Actually “Asiatics” doesn’t necessarily mean Canaanites it can also be used for other Semitic groups. Some names were more generic than others. 
 

cormac

Ok. So what other people were called 'Asiatics' by the AE?

The AE mentioned the "Retjenu" or "Retenu", which means "Canaanites".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Ok. So what other people were called 'Asiatics' by the AE?

The AE mentioned the "Retjenu" or "Retenu", which means "Canaanites".

ANY non-Egyptian Near Eastern peoples can and sometimes were referred to as Asiatics. Put another way, ANY Semitic peoples not just Canaanites. 
 

cormac

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

ANY non-Egyptian Near Eastern peoples can and sometimes were referred to as Asiatics. Put another way, ANY Semitic peoples not just Canaanites. 
 

cormac

Please give an example of these other Asiatics mentioned in AE discriptions of people they met or conquered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Please give an example of these other Asiatics mentioned in AE discriptions of people they met or conquered.

The Amorites and the Hyksos (AE heku-khasut) are the two most distinctive and common examples during the Middle Kingdom of Egypt. 
 

cormac

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

The Amorites and the Hyksos (AE heku-khasut) are the two most distinctive and common examples during the Middle Kingdom of Egypt. 
 

cormac

And I knew you would come up with these tribes.

The Hyksos were Canaanites.

The Amorites were not. But very probably related to the Canaanites.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

And I knew you would come up with these tribes.

The Hyksos were Canaanites.

The Amorites were not. But very probably related to the Canaanites.

I did that on purpose to show that “Asiatics” was not limited to Canaanites. As to the Amorites, a predominantly Syrian peoples, ALL Semites are related but their individual names shouldn’t be conflated as being one and the same peoples. They’re not. 
 

cormac

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/5/2022 at 9:34 AM, Abramelin said:

You won't see that because there were no "Jews" back then.

However, there are AE depictions of 'Asiatic', or Canaanite/Semitic slaves forming and baking bricks.

1462691577_LevantineAsiaticsAE.thumb.jpg.b5b2f450d662f291cade86826d212a60.jpg

As discussed several times before, from at least the beginnings of the OK, the pyramid age, Asiatics from the Levant were captured by the boatload. Along with Libyans and Nubians. Pictured below (Sahure 5th Dynasty) are all three groups of prisoners: 

800px-thumbnail.jpgT

There seems little doubt the point of capturing up to 20,000 foreigners at any given time was slave labor.  

Edited by Thanos5150
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.