Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians: A Critical Turning Point in History

[docyabut2]

Flood Stories from Around the World

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html

what about the flood stories ?

[Antigonos]

2 minutes ago, Festina said:

Not my holy book.  It’s evil.   But I do study religiously hypnotized people and the black magic bible is a useful resource. 

You think the Bible is evil? Then why do you rely on it as a historical source?

[Festina]

2 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

You think the Bible is evil? Then why do you rely on it as a historical source?

Seems to me There is some truth in it.   Albeit very ugly. 

[Abramelin]

26 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

In case you don’t know, the latter are considered to have been part of the confederation of the Sea Peoples.

Uhm... no, I don't think the Phoenicians were part of the Sea Peoples. It was Puzzler who thought they were.

[Antigonos]

Just now, Abramelin said:

Uhm... no, I don't think the Phoenicians were part of the Sea Peoples. It was Puzzler who thought they were.

Ah. I always considered the possibility. Didn’t mean to speak for you then. My bad.

[Abramelin]

12 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Flood Stories from Around the World

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html

what about the flood stories ?

Flood stories come from all over this planet.

Floods have occurred in many different places on many different times.

[Abramelin]

17 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Ah. I always considered the possibility. Didn’t mean to speak for you then. My bad.

Puzz and I rarely agree on anything, but her posts always inspire me to dig deeper. And by that I discovered things I wouldn't have if she hadn't posted whatever she posted.

[Antigonos]

10 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Puzz and I rarely agree on anything, but her posts always inspire me to dig deeper. And by that I discovered things I wouldn't have if she hadn't posted whatever she posted.

I respect that and agree. I have had the same experience with others that I don’t always agree with. To my mind anything or anybody that advances the cause of knowledge has my support whether I personally agree with them or not. It’s too important a journey to view it any other way.

 

 

Edited February 6 by Antigonos

[Festina]

On 9/21/2022 at 10:04 AM, Abramelin said:

I don't see foreskins, but that may be caused by the inaccuracy of the murals. Or they were already circumcised. Well, whatever that mural shows us, the Egyptians were circumcized.

 

 

Some Egyptians.

[Festina]

For you since you are so interested in the (bloody) subject.

😂

 

https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2006/05/04/1630926.htm

Edited February 6 by Festina

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Festina said:

Some Egyptians.

The earliest historical record of circumcision comes from Egypt, in the form of an image of the circumcision of an adult carved into the tomb of Ankh-Mahor at Saqqara, dating to about 2400–2300 BCE. Circumcision was possibly done by the Egyptians for hygienic reasons, but also was part of their obsession with purity and was associated with spiritual and intellectual development. No well-accepted theory explains the significance of circumcision to the Egyptians, but it appears to have been endowed with great honor and importance as a rite of passage, performed in a public ceremony emphasizing the continuation of family generations and fertility. It may have been a mark of distinction for the elite: the Egyptian Book of the Dead describes the sun god Ra as having circumcised himself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision

[docyabut2]

1200 B.C. found during excavations at Ugarit. The tablet contains a fragment of the Epic of Gilgamesh, including parts of the story of Utnapishtim and the flood .

The "standard" Akkadian version included a long version of the story and was edited by Sin-liqe-unninni,^[7] who lived sometime between 1300 and 1000 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth

[Abramelin]

4 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

1200 B.C. found during excavations at Ugarit. The tablet contains a fragment of the Epic of Gilgamesh, including parts of the story of Utnapishtim and the flood .

The "standard" Akkadian version included a long version of the story and was edited by Sin-liqe-unninni,^[7] who lived sometime between 1300 and 1000 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth

Quote from your link:

Gilgamesh's supposed historical reign is believed to have been approximately 2700 BC,^[2] shortly before the earliest known written stories. The discovery of artifacts associated with Aga and Enmebaragesi of Kish, two other kings named in the stories, has lent credibility to the historical existence of Gilgamesh.^[3]

2700 BC...

Get it, Docy?

[Antigonos]

1 hour ago, Festina said:

For you since you are so interested in the (bloody) subject.

😂

 

https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2006/05/04/1630926.htm

You brought it up ffs.

[docyabut2]

Some Sea Peoples appear in four of the Ugaritic texts, the last three of which seem to foreshadow the destruction of the city around 1180 BC. The letters are therefore dated to the early 12th century. The last king of Ugarit was Ammurapi ( c. 1191–1182 BC), who, throughout this correspondence, is quite a young man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples#:~:text=Some Sea Peoples appear in,is quite a young man.

[docyabut2]

The earliest Akkadian versions of the unified epic are dated to ca. 2000–1500 BC.

The "standard" Akkadian version included a long version of the story and was edited by Sin-liqe-unninni,^[7] who lived sometime between 1300 and 1000 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth

 

Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra near Latakia, Syria) was an ancient cosmopolitan port city, sited on the Mediterranean coast, reaching the height of its civilization from about 1450 B.C.E. until 1200 B.C.E.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ugarit#:~:text=An Egyptian sword bearing the,Ramesses III in 1178 B.C.E.

what about the sea ships that attack Ugarit ?

Edited February 6 by docyabut2

[Festina]

1 hour ago, Antigonos said:

You brought it up ffs.

No I didn’t.  Go back to the beginning of the thread and read the first three pages.  

[Antigonos]

2 minutes ago, Festina said:

No I didn’t.  Go back to the beginning of the thread and read the first three pages.  

Yeah, no.

[Festina]

10 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Yeah, no.

Lazy?

[The Puzzler]

13 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Just curious, did you take into account post-glacial rebound?

cormac

Yes…I was thinking of it of course but no info on how much of that 25 metres was due to it, itself. 

Edited February 7 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

8 hours ago, Abramelin said:

The earliest historical record of circumcision comes from Egypt, in the form of an image of the circumcision of an adult carved into the tomb of Ankh-Mahor at Saqqara, dating to about 2400–2300 BCE. Circumcision was possibly done by the Egyptians for hygienic reasons, but also was part of their obsession with purity and was associated with spiritual and intellectual development. No well-accepted theory explains the significance of circumcision to the Egyptians, but it appears to have been endowed with great honor and importance as a rite of passage, performed in a public ceremony emphasizing the continuation of family generations and fertility. It may have been a mark of distinction for the elite: the Egyptian Book of the Dead describes the sun god Ra as having circumcised himself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision

Herodotus mentions three peoples, Egyptians, Ethiopians and Syria-Phoenicians…which may have included Hebrew types by that time. He mentions it in Colchis, so thinks that either Egyptians or Ethiopians settled there, because of this reason (and their same weaving technique) It was only done in a few societies.

 

I personally think the ones mentioned in the Sea People writings are any of these three and possibly determined who the traitors were…it identified them, and they could have been a Syro-Phoenician type…to the Egyptian Pharoah.

Edited February 7 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Most likely local people displaced by the war between Egypt and the Hittites.

As they destroyed Amarru, sewing salt there…and all the areas between the two warring factions…something had to give.

The result…Coming with carts and families, coming with ships, taking the lands….

People evicted from their homelands all through the modern area of Israel, Lebanon, Syria, all those countries affected by the war of the Egyptians and Hittites…so trying to gain new footholds by attacking Ugarit, attacking Egypt…etc…and aligning with enemies of Egypt like Libya, to find new lands to live. 

Edited February 7 by The Puzzler

[docyabut2]

I `m guessing after a maga flood that hit the people, they were seperated and strarted a seafaring confederation;

[The Puzzler]

The loss of IE Hittite language imo too, would have been paramount in the loss of Mycenaean language and communications with them….

”Hittite (natively: 𒌷𒉌𒅆𒇷, romanized: niščili / "the language of Neša", or nešumnili / "the language of the people of Neša"), also known as Nesite (Nešite/Neshite, Nessite), is an extinct Indo-European language that was spoken by the Hittites, a people of Bronze Age Anatolia who created an empire centred on Hattusa, as well as parts of the northern Levant and Upper Mesopotamia.^[1] The language, now long extinct, is attested in cuneiform, in records dating from the 17th^[2] (Anitta text) to the 13th centuries BC, with isolated Hittite loanwords and numerous personal names appearing in an Old Assyrian context from as early as the 20th century BC, making it the earliest attested use of the Indo-European languages.”

By the Late Bronze Age, Hittite had started losing ground to its close relative Luwian. It appears that in the 13th century BC, Luwian was the most widely spoken language in the Hittite capital, Hattusa.^[3] After the collapse of the Hittite New Kingdom during the more general Late Bronze Age collapse, Luwian emerged in the Early Iron Age as the main language of the so-called Syro-Hittite states, in southwestern Anatolia and northern Syria.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittite_language

Edited February 7 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

4 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

I `m guessing after a maga flood that hit the people, they were seperated and strarted a seafaring confederation;

I personally don’t think you need a mega flood, the warring and displacement of everyone from Egypt to Hatti was the initial cause….but that’s just my opinion.

A sea faring confederation…possibly, the ship builders of the Levant prob supplied the ships and crews gathered from the strands of rebels holding arms against the aggressors.