Has Lake Champlain's monster 'Champ' been picked up on sonar?

[UM-Bot]

A research group has posted up footage of what appears to be a sonar hit of a large creature swimming in the lake.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/360795/has-lake-champlains-monster-champ-been-picked-up-on-sonar

[jethrofloyd]

A fish swarm?

[Buzz_Light_Year]

Probably a Sturgeon.

[Plan IX]

You know Lake Champlain is one of Nessy's holiday home.

[MysteryMike]

Sturgeon most likely.

If such creatures did exist. There'd have to be a breeding population of at least ten.

We can find whales no problem in the ocean but not lakes?

[NCC1701]

I believe this.

[the13bats]

All they did was perhaps get a sonar hit, they have to prove it was a real hit and that it wasnt one of the far more likely prosaic explanations and prove its unknown and then prove what it is.

[qxcontinuum]

That's just 6 meters long. It can be a fish.

[Jon the frog]

Silvery big scales ? Look like sturgeon to me...

https://vtfishandwildlife.com/sites/fishandwildlife/files/documents/Learn More/Library/REPORTS AND DOCUMENTS/NONGAME AND NATURAL HERITAGE/RECOVERY PLANS/Lake Champlain Lake Sturgeon Recovery Plan.pdf

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Jon the frog

[stereologist]

I just want to point out that this is completely false:

Quote

The legend is believed to date back to 1609 when Samuel de Champlain wrote an account of a serpent-like creature measuring 5 ft long with large teeth, a body as thick as a man's thigh and tough silver-grey scales that his blade could not penetrate.

This story comes from a hoax pulled in a 1960 Vermont magazine. Champlain's log exists and has been inspected. There is no monster entry in the log.

[stereologist]

This could be a school of perch or smelt. Looks like smelt number are dropping due to the introduction of alewife.

I decided to take a look at what sonar reports.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/fish-sonar.html

Quote

Swim bladders—the gas-filled chambers found in many fish—reflect sound waves,
making fish schools detectable via sonar.

Maybe that is why we see this as a group of dots rather than as a solid surface.

Here are whales on sonar. They look very different.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/carolinas/634618-whale-near-cape-lookout-rock-jetty.html?styleid=9

https://seethewhales.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/memorial-day-weekend/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3185600/A-huge-whale-swims-underneath-fishing-boat-16km-shore-Roseville.html

I'm going to suggest that this is a collection of separate creatures, not a single creature.

[the13bats]

On 9/23/2022 at 7:33 AM, Jon the frog said:

Silvery big scales ? Look like sturgeon to me...

https://vtfishandwildlife.com/sites/fishandwildlife/files/documents/Learn More/Library/REPORTS AND DOCUMENTS/NONGAME AND NATURAL HERITAGE/RECOVERY PLANS/Lake Champlain Lake Sturgeon Recovery Plan.pdf

 

No, sturgen do not have scales but gar do and fit what some claimed Champlain described if he described anything...

Not me but decades back in orlando in a small lake near my house i would fish for these for fun, this size isnt uncommon i used surf gear no hook needed they put up a hell of a fight and would love to snap a finger off.

 

[the13bats]

On 9/23/2022 at 2:13 PM, stereologist said:

This could be a school of perch or smelt. Looks like smelt number are dropping due to the introduction of alewife.

I decided to take a look at what sonar reports.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/fish-sonar.html

Maybe that is why we see this as a group of dots rather than as a solid surface.

Here are whales on sonar. They look very different.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/carolinas/634618-whale-near-cape-lookout-rock-jetty.html?styleid=9

https://seethewhales.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/memorial-day-weekend/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3185600/A-huge-whale-swims-underneath-fishing-boat-16km-shore-Roseville.html

I'm going to suggest that this is a collection of separate creatures, not a single creature.

My dad had fish finders on his bass boat that worked like this he could tell you if it was a school of specks or a log etc, in the 80s he would toss on a mask and dive into the gin clear water of kingsly lake in jacksonville to see what it really was.

[+DieChecker]

Was it that hit along the top? If so, the it was only a few feet under the water. They should have seen it, or maybe a wake.

I'm going to side with a school of fish theory.

Edited September 27, 2022 by DieChecker

[stereologist]

Notice that the bottom looks fuzzy. That is due to a mix of materials on the lake bottom. There are places where the glacial till on the lake bottom prevents sonar from producing a reliable return.

 

[stereologist]

The person telling this story is not believable.

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/capital-region/2019/08/looking-for-champ-sonar-image-could-provide-proof-of-lake-champlain-monster.html

Quote

Elizabeth claims to have had about 10 above-water sightings since she started looking for the creature seven years ago, but said she could never get close enough or the light was just too bad to get a definitive picture or video.

A creature which almost no one claims to have seen is seen more often than once a year by someone? I've seen her video of her second sighting and UFO videos are never as bad as the that one.

Here is what she did:

Quote

In 2018, she successfully lobbied the town of Port Henry, N.Y. to pass a resolution to protect Champ.

She now claims she got a state law passed. That's not the truth. Port Henry has claimed to be the home of Champ and has had a painted plywood in town since before the 1980 Olympics

[stereologist]

This person  has a habit of telling everyone she uses military grade sonar. I suppose this is stated to support whatever bizarre conclusions she draws from what she sees. She admits she does her radar scans at 45mph.

Here is a part of that previous link which tells us that this so-called world's expert on Champ has no idea what they are spouting.

Quote

“It’s a Raymarine Dragonfly 4 Pro Sonar. It’s a chirp sonar and shoots chirps to the bottom as well as the sides. I know how to use it and that the images are reliable even when the boat is traveling at that speed.”

She added: “Going at 45 mph, if that had any effect on the sonar images it would be a big blur on the screen. The sonar from what I understand slows things down to read them accurately.”

((Jim McGowan, the Americas Marketing Manager for Raymarine, said the type of sonar used by Alexander’s group is a fish-finding sonar.

“At 45 mph, typically you’re doing well if you see the bottom and depth,” he said. “As for targets in the water column, it’s hard to know what you’re looking at.”

He said at 45 mph most normal fish would be “blurred over” on the screen, unless it was a big school. “You might not even see it.”

But as for something the size of what Alexander saw, “I have no experience knowing what it would look like going at that speed

“I can’t dismiss it. I didn’t see it first-hand. We don’t have opportunities to drive over targets that big,” he said. “I’m not certain I can tell you what it is.”

He did add that the sonar would slow its “ping rate” (the travel time the sound from the sonar leaves the transducer, hits the bottom and comes back) if a boat was traveling that fast. Both speed and depth are factors, he said.))

 

[the13bats]

Heres a story my dad told me he was a bass fisherman.

Decades back when companies were first trying to produce good reliable "fish finders" for the lake fishing guys they had to someway prove that blob on the screen really was a fish or these guys were not going to buy this new fangled gear.

I believe it was the owner of Lawrence dont hold me to that part but he went on to find a way to catch the fish the device showed, he did this with special live bait that is a story of its own.

My point was no one cared about a blob on a screen prove what that blob is prove its a fish i can catch its a bit like a person who has a cast they claim came from a bigfoot track, who cares, show the foot that matches that cast.

So in a long winded way of getting to it this gal has a blob on a screen its really of zero use in proving there is an unknown creature in the lake unless she shows us the creature that made the blob.

[Trelane]

Have they finally revealed the location of the Red October????

[stereologist]

13 hours ago, Trelane said:

Have they finally revealed the location of the Red October????

A previous Champ spotter did find a number of wrecks going back to the Revolutionary War

 

[the13bats]

34 minutes ago, stereologist said:

A previous Champ spotter did find a number of wrecks going back to the Revolutionary War

 

I have an old champ documentary and a professinal diver is talking about all the time he and colleagues have spent under water there finding over 100 new ship wrecks but what people ask him is if he believes in champ his reply is no.

[stereologist]

2 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I have an old champ documentary and a professinal diver is talking about all the time he and colleagues have spent under water there finding over 100 new ship wrecks but what people ask him is if he believes in champ his reply is no.

Somewhere out on the lake is a huge shipment of prohibition booze. The guy was running trucks down the ice of frozen Lake Champlain under cover of darkness. Not sure if the ice was too thin or a chase caused the trucks to head into thin ice but the convoy sits in the lake. At least that was story I heard when I lived in Vermont.

https://www.lcmm.org/prohibition/federal-prohibition/

[Commander CMG]

3 hours ago, the13bats said:

I have an old champ documentary and a professinal diver is talking about all the time he and colleagues have spent under water there finding over 100 new ship wrecks but what people ask him is if he believes in champ his reply is no.

And you believed him, enough to quote him. Would you believe him if he said yes?

[the13bats]

1 minute ago, Uncle Yammy said:

And you believed him, enough to quote him. Would you believe him if he said yes?

Yes, i would believe him if he said yes. because he isnt posturing or thumping his chest hes not a lake monster hunter hes a under water salvage type person.

Your knee jerk mistake was all i did in my reply was quote him i didnt say i did or didnt believe him, you jumped that i dod before asking me in his case he doesnt think there is a lake monster and i believe he feels that way i happen to agree.

Hes spent countless hours on and under that water and seen nothing.

Its like if you said no elves live in your garage i would believe you know your garage well enough to safety say its elve free.

Then we get champ profiteers like D hall who made up stuff as he went along and i dont care what he says i think hes full of bull.

And in that same doc a store owner says she thinks their could be a monster in the lake i think she is sincere in her opinion i just do not share her opinion.

Hope that helped.

 

[Commander CMG]

4 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Yes, i would believe him if he said yes. because he isnt posturing or thumping his chest hes not a lake monster hunter hes a under water salvage type person.

Your knee jerk mistake was all i did in my reply was quote him i didnt say i did or didnt believe him, you jumped that i dod before asking me in his case he doesnt think there is a lake monster and i believe he feels that way i happen to agree.

Hes spent countless hours on and under that water and seen nothing.

Its like if you said no elves live in your garage i would believe you know your garage well enough to safety say its elve free.

Then we get champ profiteers like D hall who made up stuff as he went along and i dont care what he says i think hes full of bull.

And in that same doc a store owner says she thinks their could be a monster in the lake i think she is sincere in her opinion i just do not share her opinion.

Hope that helped.

 

It wasn't a knee jerk reaction. I simply asked a question?

 

Hope that helped.