Group sues to block Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan

[+OverSword]

Quote

 

The Pacific Legal Foundation (PLF) filed a lawsuit on Tuesday against the Department of Education (ED) over its new student loan cancellation policy, becoming the first organization to challenge the Biden administration’s move to forgive up to $20,000 in a student’s debt.

The federal lawsuit, filed in the U.S. District Court in southern Indiana, contends that Biden’s decision to cancel student loan debt for some borrowers is illegal because Congress, which holds the power of the purse, did not approve it.

“It’s flagrantly illegal for the executive branch to create a $500 billion program by press release,” said PLF attorney Caleb Kruckenberg in a statement. “And without statutory authority or even the basic notice and comment procedure for new regulations.”

 

Link

[spartan max2]

I'm not surprised. I really don't know how this lawsuit will go though. The government forgives it's own loans often. The Covid loans to companies for example. However they did use the pandemic powers as their argument for forgiveness of loans so idk how effective that will be to hold up.

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

I'm not surprised. I really don't know how this lawsuit will go though. The government forgives it's own loans often. The Covid loans to companies for example. However they did use the pandemic powers as their argument for forgiveness of loans so idk how effective that will be to hold up.

As it stated, the president bypassed the body in charge of spending with an executive order.  I think this has a good chance of going succeeding.  

[Guyver]

Good.  I hope they win.  300 billion dollars of taxpayer money to forgive student debt?!  I worked myself through college and paid all my debt, plus I’ve worked for a living all my life paying taxes.  I didn’t get a free ride and neither should anyone else who desires to pursue higher education.  Biden’s administration has made some really dumb decisions and they are hurting our country. 

[preacherman76]

Good. These debt were not forgiven. They were passed on to others. Many way worse off then the ones who now don’t have to pay. 

[+Liquid Gardens]

31 minutes ago, Guyver said:

 I didn’t get a free ride and neither should anyone else who desires to pursue higher education.

So no scholarships allowed?  Is it 'unfair' to you too that some football and women's softball players, et al, get free rides?  

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

As it stated, the president bypassed the body in charge of spending with an executive order.  I think this has a good chance of going succeeding.  

Can't copy and paste it for some reasons. But halfway through the article is says that the administrations argument is that they used the HEROS Act which says the department of education can change or modify student assistance programs during times of war or national emergency.

They are claiming Covid was a national emergency which gave them the power.

Similar to how they froze rent and mortgage forbearance, and paused student loans during Covid

Time will tell if that argument stands up or not

[lightly]

Are presidential powers like executive orders, and presidential pardons,  above congressional review and revision ?   (If they are, they shouldn’t be)

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

Can't copy and paste it for some reasons. But halfway through the article is says that the administrations argument is that they used the HEROS Act which says the department of education can change or modify student assistance programs during times of war or national emergency.

They are claiming Covid was a national emergency which gave them the power.

Similar to how they froze rent and mortgage forbearance, and paused student loans during Covid

Time will tell if that argument stands up or not

However https://www.delawarepublic.org/delaware-headlines/2022-09-25/biden-says-pandemic-is-over-health-professionals-worry-covid-19-boosters-wont-be

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

So no scholarships allowed?  Is it 'unfair' to you too that some football and women's softball players, et al, get free rides?  

They don't, they earn money and prestige for the school.

[Guyver]

2 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

So no scholarships allowed?  Is it 'unfair' to you too that some football and women's softball players, et al, get free rides?  

That’s something different.  No, I don’t have a problem with scholarships.

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

However https://www.delawarepublic.org/delaware-headlines/2022-09-25/biden-says-pandemic-is-over-health-professionals-worry-covid-19-boosters-wont-be

I wonder if that will be used in the lawsuit 

[+Paranoid Android]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

They don't, they earn money and prestige for the school.

And if they don't,  they lose their scholarship!

[Tatetopa]

Yes.  Same goes for Biden's stupid plan to spend tax money to research cures for cancer. Its unfair to tax payers who don't get cancer.  Not only that, but I have lived my life with the risk of getting cancer, young people should too. If he tries that, we should sue him for that too.

[+Liquid Gardens]

3 hours ago, OverSword said:

They don't, they earn money and prestige for the school.

A fraction do.  Given how expensive tuition is, ergo the desire to help some people out with their debt, how many field hockey, lacrosse, wresting, etc teams do you think bring in enough money to cover the tuition costs of their athletes?  A quick google search indicates that “The majority of universities in the nation's top athletic conferences lost money through their sports programs to the tune of approximately $16 million each.” ( https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analysis/2020/11/20/do-college-sports-make-money/ ) .  That money of course comes from people like tuition-paying students like Guyver.  At a school, which is ostensibly about education?  How is that fair?

(note I'm all for college athletics and full ride scholarships.  I'm also for helping people out with education in other trades that don't involve a college.  I don't follow/agree with the logic of why this is such an issue in a relative sense. Trump cut the taxes of the wealthiest and corporations depriving the government of seemingly at least the same if not greater amount than this tuition forgiveness may cost, and the same people are going to pay for that tax cut as are going to pay for the tuition forgiveness:  everyone else.  So why is a benefit for the middle class so much worse than a benefit for the richest, doesn't that seem backwards?)

[Tatetopa]

US student loan debt in 2022 is 1.75 trillion dollars with a T.  Average debt per student $32,000.   Biden's plan cost 20 billion dollars,  .0011, just over 1% of the total, possibly 33% of student amounts.  Not exactly a free ride. Refunds are geared to lower  income  middle class working people, people who now make more money are ineligible for the loan.

Consider there are a dozen or so banks holding most of that debt. A person may be paying several times the principle in interest over the lifetime of  the loan. The principle and interest the banks earn does not get injected back into the economy as efficiently as distributing that money to several million people. It might improve the economy more than the banks holding on to it, and by giving it to people more likely to spend than save it, it happens more quickly.

On the average people with a college degree earn more than people with a HS degree, not true in all cases of course.  By encouraging people to go to college the federal government is betting they will collect more taxes from the college educated.  Trickle up effect?

[+OverSword]

3 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

A fraction do.  Given how expensive tuition is, ergo the desire to help some people out with their debt, how many field hockey, lacrosse, wresting, etc teams do you think bring in enough money to cover the tuition costs of their athletes?  A quick google search indicates that “The majority of universities in the nation's top athletic conferences lost money through their sports programs to the tune of approximately $16 million each.” ( https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analysis/2020/11/20/do-college-sports-make-money/ ) .  That money of course comes from people like tuition-paying students like Guyver.  At a school, which is ostensibly about education?  How is that fair?

(note I'm all for college athletics and full ride scholarships.  I'm also for helping people out with education in other trades that don't involve a college.  I don't follow/agree with the logic of why this is such an issue in a relative sense. Trump cut the taxes of the wealthiest and corporations depriving the government of seemingly at least the same if not greater amount than this tuition forgiveness may cost, and the same people are going to pay for that tax cut as are going to pay for the tuition forgiveness:  everyone else.  So why is a benefit for the middle class so much worse than a benefit for the richest, doesn't that seem backwards?)

Well to stay on topic let me just say this.  when I make the decision to take on debt for whatever reason then I’m responsible for it. As far as the rest of the world cares I can live in a hole in the ground and take the bus until I pay it off. There is just no reason that makes sense to me that we should pay for poor decisions by people that elected to get expensive educations that cost more than they can earn with the associated degrees. Poorer less educated people that have been working and paying taxes since they were teenagers are the ones who are paying the debts of these spoiled privileged higher class individuals. How does that look? To me it looks unfair and crappy. It looks like an unpopular president is trying to buy votes with taxpayer money in an attempt to keep his party in power

[the13bats]

i think i get it now, biden during a pandemic crisis type thing tries to help college students by giving them amnesty from their student loans you know like with the now closed down defunct trump U that was chased out of texas for cheating people.

Wait, nevermind, very different situations.

[Myles]

5 hours ago, OverSword said:

Well to stay on topic let me just say this.  when I make the decision to take on debt for whatever reason then I’m responsible for it. As far as the rest of the world cares I can live in a hole in the ground and take the bus until I pay it off. There is just no reason that makes sense to me that we should pay for poor decisions by people that elected to get expensive educations that cost more than they can earn with the associated degrees. Poorer less educated people that have been working and paying taxes since they were teenagers are the ones who are paying the debts of these spoiled privileged higher class individuals. How does that look? To me it looks unfair and crappy. It looks like an unpopular president is trying to buy votes with taxpayer money in an attempt to keep his party in power

You are correct on all these comments.   They CHOSE to take on these debts.

I would like to see them just reduce the interest rate to 1% which would help students out allot more than this vote grab crap.

[preacherman76]

10 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Yes.  Same goes for Biden's stupid plan to spend tax money to research cures for cancer. Its unfair to tax payers who don't get cancer.  Not only that, but I have lived my life with the risk of getting cancer, young people should too. If he tries that, we should sue him for that too.

Have you also lived your life with the risk of a student loan falling on you? 
 

Whatever choice people made in regards to their education should not fall on me. 

[preacherman76]

Government should get out of the student loan business altogether. The prices would plummet. 

[preacherman76]

2 hours ago, the13bats said:

i think i get it now, biden during a pandemic crisis type thing tries to help college students by giving them amnesty from their student loans you know like with the now closed down defunct trump U that was chased out of texas for cheating people.

Wait, nevermind, very different situations.

Not even close. Biden decided that the rest of America should pay these student loans. Even poor people who are way worse off then those who took the loans. Very different situations indeed. 
 

Arent you one of those folks who constantly complain about whataboutism? Yet you find a way to bring Trump into every conversation.  Even in the UFO section the other day lol

Edited September 28, 2022 by preacherman76

[Katniss]

It's too late now. In some cases student loans have automatic forgiveness.

Millions of student loan borrowers could receive automatic refunds on their payments soon—how to check if you qualify

[+OverSword]

14 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Yes.  Same goes for Biden's stupid plan to spend tax money to research cures for cancer. Its unfair to tax payers who don't get cancer.  Not only that, but I have lived my life with the risk of getting cancer, young people should too. If he tries that, we should sue him for that too.

And without extra money spent by the government how improved are our chances of surviving cancer now as compared to even a decade ago?  Vastly.  So that's just more rhetoric from a career politician.  How much more wealthy do we need the government to make big pharma in your opinion?  As wealthy as their loan guarantees have made higher educational institutions?  

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by OverSword

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

How much more wealthy do we need the government to make big pharma in your opinion?  As wealthy as their loan guarantees have made higher educational institutions?  

Now that is a good point.  One might also criticize it as a natural consequence of capitalism,  small benefits to the people on the bottom are aggregated into large gains at the top.  If you feed starving people, the grain merchants get rich.