Why Aztec Culture Was Destroyed

[fishinginspace]

 

To Summarize so you can decide if this is worth reading, the Aztec’s culture and history were destroyed because the Spanish Christians recognized a near identical religion in the Aztec culture as that of their own. They saw this as a trick of the devil and went on to purge the culture (obviously this is not the only reason, but it provides context as for the decision to erase everything in the Aztec culture)

 

Background

The fateful meeting between Hernan Cortez of the spanish empire and emperor Montezuma of the Aztec civilization is considered by historians to be one of the most perturbing coincidences to ever occur.

Quetzalcoatl was a culture hero of Mesoamerica and a ruler of the Toltec empire in the late 900s ad. He was deified after his departure and almost every mesoamerican civilization thereafter claimed descent and practiced worship of. The Aztecs used the name Quetzalcoatl, the Mayans called him Kulkulkan or Gucumatz, however, many cultures such as the Olmec who far preceded the mayans and Aztecs have evidence of feathered serpent worship. 

Quetzalcoatl the person was adopted into the feathered serpent deity and no culture is as famous for their worship and belief of Quetzalcoatl than the Aztec.

It was because of the legend that the second coming of Quetzalcoatl would be in the form of a fair skinned, dark bearded man returning to take back his kingdom and bring about the end of the world. For the Aztec’s, and the entire area of north, south and central america it would be the end of the world.

Cortez and Montezuma’s fateful encounter marked the beginning of the end for the numerous peoples and civilizations of the americas.

 

Quetzalcoatl and Jesus

So what happened between the Spanish and the Aztecs that Montezuma should believe that quetzalcoatl had returned.

Aside from fitting the physical description of the god, there was a certain symbol associated with Quetzalcoatl that was paramount in authenticating the god.

One of Cortes’ soldiers wrote about the meeting, and how Montezuma was skeptical that Cortes was their god’s personification. That is until a specific symbol was seen on some of the helmets of the conquistadors. Montezuma's general who was the first to inspect it was very excited when he saw it and said that Montezuma would be pleased. 

"One of our men had on a casque, (a conquistador helmet) which was partly gilt.... Teuthlille, [general of the Mexican empire, also spelled Teudile]  who was much more enlightened than any of his companions, remarked, when his eye fell upon it, that it bore a great resemblance to a casque which belonged to their most ancient forefathers, and now adorned the head of their warrior-god Huitzilopochtli.  Motecusuma, he further added, would certainly be uncommonly pleased if he could likewise see this casque".

"Cortés, on hearing this, ordered the casque  to be presented to him, thereby expressing the wish, that he should like to satisfy himself that the gold of this country was similar to what we find in our rivers. If they would send him the casque full of gold dust, he would send it to our great emperor. Upon this Teuthlille took leave of Cortés and all of us, promising to return speedily, while Cortés, under the most tender of embraces, made him every profession of friendship".

"After this personage had taken his departure, we learnt that he was not merely a distinguished statesman, but also the most nimble pedestrian at Motecusuma's court. He did, indeed, use the utmost expedition to bring his monarch information, and hand over to him the paintings and presents. The great Motecusuma was vastly astonished at everything he heard and saw, and yet he was pleased. But, when at last he espied the casque, and compared it with that of the idol Huitzilopochtli, he no longer doubted for an instant that we belonged to that people, whom his forefathers had prophesied would, one time or other, come and subdue the country".

 

The Symbol

When Montezuma saw in person the symbol brandished by the Spaniards there was no longer any doubt that Cortes was Quetzalcoatl.

Unfortunately there is no mention as to the specific symbol on the conquistador helmet, however by looking at helmets from the time period as well as comparing symbology worn by the spanish at that time and symbols used by the Aztes we can deduce what that symbol would be. Most conquistador helmets were plain though the few that do bear symbols, bear the fleur de lis.

The flower or lily and sometimes iris bound together at the stem. It is found in many cultures for thousands of years, mostly famously a french symbol, it did not originate in france and one of the earliest depictions is in India 2 thousands years ago.

Its meaning varies based on cultures but it primarily represents divinity, fruit of knowledge and representing a trinity of gods or god.

The fleur de lis is found all over mesoamerican art, iconography and architecture. An important thing to remember is how the Aztecs did not have a writing system, they used symbols and pictograms. Symbolism was vastly important to them. It was this fleur de lis symbol, a symbol representing the trinity that composed quetzalcoatl, the Aztec god who was both man and god and born of a virgin and how at the time of the spanish conquest was undergoing a cultural fusion where Quetzalcoatl was becoming the only god of the Aztec, absorbing qualities of the rest of their cosmological deities and technically making the Aztec monotheistic in that sense. 

 

Christianity and Aztecs Compared 

Sounds familiar? The spanish thought so too. In fact they were so surprised to learn that the Aztecs had a religion so remarkably like Christianity that the Spanish genocided the Aztec people to cover this up. 

The Aztec believed Quetzalcoatl had returned to rule over them but Cortes took advantage of this and waged war on the Aztec, razing their cities and burning their art and culture. 

History will have you believe that the Aztecs gave up and wanted to die, that the spanish were doing the Aztecs a favor by fulfilling some religious prophecy. The Aztecs died defending their land, they lost and the victors decided the history.

History writes the Aztec as a brutal and barbaric place, filled with human sacrifice and endless wars.

 

Aztec Religion

Without the Aztecs telling their own history, we can only guess as to their reasonings and motivations. It is my own estimation that the Aztec, being a psychedelic culture and whose rituals revolved around the entheogenic use of mushrooms and herbs, likely had a much deeper understanding of life than they are given credit for. Death was an illusion to them, a part of a broader cycle within their cosmology. Anything they took from the land, they offered back equally. They took the heads of mushrooms so they must offer their own heads back.

This is represented in their art of mushroom heads. Many of the sacrificial rituals occurred during large mushrooms trips. The sacrificers would die during their trip, something you can imagine being highly significant to them. 

One of Aztec’s most important mushrooms was the amanita muscaria. Everything, even the astrological significance of Venus, the virgin birth, the trinity, the eucharistic ritual, the themes of sacrifice and the drinking of blood and body. When the spanish saw the mushroom rituals of the Aztec they were amazed and horrified how alike it was to their own Catholic rituals of bread and wine. 

The Fall of the Aztec

They condemned the Aztecs as being a heinous mockery of christianity, as devil worshippers and pagan heathens. 

Thus killing the Aztecs was the work of God. In fact one of the only monks to have saved any codexes from the Aztecs did so to prove how similar their beliefs and rituals were to the Catholic ones. To prove how “savage” and bedeviled the Aztec people were. Other than that, very little survived the cultural erasing Christians enacted upon them.

In one way or another, it does seem that the Quetzalcoatl second coming was fulfilled either through coincidence, as is taught, some sort of synchronicity, or perhaps even a twisted kind of manifestation. Doomsday is built into the belief system of the Aztecs and Christian‘s alike, maybe this is just knowledge of the inevitable cycle of nations rising and falling on a cosmological scale.

 

The research mainly comes from this website as well as some of my own studies and interpretations. Its worth checking out if you are interested.

A lot of this may not make sense unless you have heard that the same mushroom, A. muscaria is the eucharist of early versions of christianity. The Aztec religion bearing so many parallels perhaps indicates cosmological archetypes that originated from the same entheogen.

https://www.mushroomstone.com

There are hundreds of pages of research in this website. If you want a rabbit hole to sink hours into, this is a good place. I will probably start a topic on Christianity and mushrooms since I have studied this extensively as well.

[+ouija ouija]

I haven't had a chance to read the article in the link yet, but these beautiful carved heads caught my eye. The one on the right in particular is amazing!

[Jon101]

Well, it's a grand idea.

However, the fly agaric doesn't grow in the middle eastern regions.

Nor does it grow in South or middle America.

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Jon101 said:

Well, it's a grand idea.

However, the fly agaric doesn't grow in the middle eastern regions.

Nor does it grow in South or middle America.

There is a lot of crap in this article. The Aztec never thought Cortez was a god though. Just a magician.  Europe Catholicism and wars were just as brutal and barbaric and you can't make any comparison between NDN beliefs and Christianity. There is none.

[jethrofloyd]

The Aztec people had no immunity to European diseases.

Smallpox spread among the indigenous people and crippled their ability to resist the Spanish. The disease devastated the Aztec people, greatly reducing their population and killing an estimated half of Tenochtitlán's inhabitants.

[Piney]

44 minutes ago, jethrofloyd said:

The Aztec people had no immunity to European diseases.

Smallpox spread among the indigenous people and crippled their ability to resist the Spanish. The disease devastated the Aztec people, greatly reducing their population and killing an estimated half of Tenochtitlán's inhabitants.

No Native had immunities. That's why 2/3rds of us straight up died off.

But the Aztecs were kicking Spanish ass until the plague and smallpox hit them. 

[fishinginspace]

2 hours ago, Jon101 said:

Well, it's a grand idea.

However, the fly agaric doesn't grow in the middle eastern regions.

Nor does it grow in South or middle America.

A common misconception. Amanita can grow anywhere its mycorrhizal trees do, which are Birch, Pine, Cedar, Oak, Spruce, Fir. Pretty much any deciduous or conifer forest in the world including more mountainous regions.

 

In fact the name amanita comes from the amanus mountain, also called the Nur mountains in Turkey. 

 

Lebanon was famous for its cedar trees in the ancient world and still to this day the flag depicts a cedar tree with the characteristic colors of the amanita, red and white. Unfortunately most of its cedar’s have been lost due to deforestation and wars.

A quick google search reveals the answer as screenshot with the attached image.

 

[fishinginspace]

1 hour ago, jethrofloyd said:

The Aztec people had no immunity to European diseases.

Smallpox spread among the indigenous people and crippled their ability to resist the Spanish. The disease devastated the Aztec people, greatly reducing their population and killing an estimated half of Tenochtitlán's inhabitants.

Yea this devastated them. However disease did not burn their codexes and erase their history, culture and art.

[fishinginspace]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

There is a lot of crap in this article. The Aztec never thought Cortez was a god though. Just a magician.  Europe Catholicism and wars were just as brutal and barbaric and you can't make any comparison between NDN beliefs and Christianity. There is none.

Everywhere in the world comparisons can be made through archetypes and shared human experience. Most religions or cultural beliefs have a lot in common.

A deep study into the symbolism and motifs of the religions reveal quite a lot of parallels. As said in the article, the Spaniards were shocked to learn how much similar the Aztecs were to the Christians

[fishinginspace]

4 hours ago, ouija ouija said:

I haven't had a chance to read the article in the link yet, but these beautiful carved heads caught my eye. The one on the right in particular is amazing!

There is so much art with subtle references to mushrooms. And even aside from all that, the craftsmanship is amazing!

[Piney]

28 minutes ago, fishinginspace said:

Everywhere in the world comparisons can be made through archetypes and shared human experience. Most religions or cultural beliefs have a lot in common.

A deep study into the symbolism and motifs of the religions reveal quite a lot of parallels. As said in the article, the Spaniards were shocked to learn how much similar the Aztecs were to the Christians

Mass comparison is not "research". We are pantheistic, not monotheistic. We have no concept of original sin, just natural law and comparing the Feathered Serpent with Jesus is dumb. There is none.

Our beliefs have zero to do with Christianity and that statement in the article about the Spanish being shocked by similarities is a outright lie.

And early Christianity had nothing to do with mushrooms. It was a doomsday cult.

 

[Piney]

37 minutes ago, fishinginspace said:

Yea this devastated them. However disease did not burn their codexes and erase their history, culture and art.

No you European savages did. Christian pigs! 

Oh, I'm Nanticoke. My language and culture is extinct. We speak Lenape and practice their culture so I have a deep seated grudge against cultural destruction and twisting.

[fishinginspace]

37 minutes ago, Piney said:

No you European savages did. Christian pigs! 

Oh, I'm Nanticoke. My language and culture is extinct. We speak Lenape and practice their culture so I have a deep seated grudge against cultural destruction and twisting.

I completely understand it was European imperialism that led to the genocide of two continents of nations, peoples and their culture and history. 

If you do not believe me that is fine, I am not going to argue or anything, I am here presenting an explanation for a lesser understood part of history. If you do not believe it or are not interested then so be it.

I believe Christianity derived from fertility cults based on the ritual consumption of a mushroom used all over the ancient world. If you want to discuss this and how the cosmology of such a belief aligns with mesoamerican cultures we can or if you want to check out the linked website.

I assure you I am not Christian and am trying to deconstruct Christianity to reveal its true origins and prove the religion became a tool for expansion and control around the third century a.d.

[Piney]

3 hours ago, fishinginspace said:

I completely understand it was European imperialism that led to the genocide of two continents of nations, peoples and their culture and history. 

If you do not believe me that is fine, I am not going to argue or anything, I am here presenting an explanation for a lesser understood part of history. If you do not believe it or are not interested then so be it.

I believe Christianity derived from fertility cults based on the ritual consumption of a mushroom used all over the ancient world. If you want to discuss this and how the cosmology of such a belief aligns with mesoamerican cultures we can or if you want to check out the linked website.

I assure you I am not Christian and am trying to deconstruct Christianity to reveal its true origins and prove the religion became a tool for expansion and control around the third century a.d.

You want Christianity's true origins. Research Jesus Ben Ananias and Jesus Ben Pandera. Then look at the Alexandrian Greco-Buddhist connection.

Christianity started as a doomsday cult then somebody put Ashoka's teachings in Jesus's mouth and gave him biographical aspects of several demi-gods.

I deconstructed it already. It had nothing to do with mushrooms.

Now.....

During the Southwest Archaic there was 2 different religious schools.

One was about peyote. The other mushrooms. The mushroom never gained really big cultic status. Peyote won out. It was just another "tool" for a shaman.

Next piece of advice. Learn Nahuatl. Then deconstruct Aztec Cosmology. Because you can't understand a culture unless you understand the language behind it

 

[+Desertrat56]

14 hours ago, fishinginspace said:

 

To Summarize so you can decide if this is worth reading, the Aztec’s culture and history were destroyed because the Spanish Christians recognized a near identical religion in the Aztec culture as that of their own. They saw this as a trick of the devil and went on to purge the culture (obviously this is not the only reason, but it provides context as for the decision to erase everything in the Aztec culture)

 

Background

The fateful meeting between Hernan Cortez of the spanish empire and emperor Montezuma of the Aztec civilization is considered by historians to be one of the most perturbing coincidences to ever occur.

Quetzalcoatl was a culture hero of Mesoamerica and a ruler of the Toltec empire in the late 900s ad. He was deified after his departure and almost every mesoamerican civilization thereafter claimed descent and practiced worship of. The Aztecs used the name Quetzalcoatl, the Mayans called him Kulkulkan or Gucumatz, however, many cultures such as the Olmec who far preceded the mayans and Aztecs have evidence of feathered serpent worship. 

Quetzalcoatl the person was adopted into the feathered serpent deity and no culture is as famous for their worship and belief of Quetzalcoatl than the Aztec.

It was because of the legend that the second coming of Quetzalcoatl would be in the form of a fair skinned, dark bearded man returning to take back his kingdom and bring about the end of the world. For the Aztec’s, and the entire area of north, south and central america it would be the end of the world.

Cortez and Montezuma’s fateful encounter marked the beginning of the end for the numerous peoples and civilizations of the americas.

 

Quetzalcoatl and Jesus

So what happened between the Spanish and the Aztecs that Montezuma should believe that quetzalcoatl had returned.

Aside from fitting the physical description of the god, there was a certain symbol associated with Quetzalcoatl that was paramount in authenticating the god.

One of Cortes’ soldiers wrote about the meeting, and how Montezuma was skeptical that Cortes was their god’s personification. That is until a specific symbol was seen on some of the helmets of the conquistadors. Montezuma's general who was the first to inspect it was very excited when he saw it and said that Montezuma would be pleased. 

"One of our men had on a casque, (a conquistador helmet) which was partly gilt.... Teuthlille, [general of the Mexican empire, also spelled Teudile]  who was much more enlightened than any of his companions, remarked, when his eye fell upon it, that it bore a great resemblance to a casque which belonged to their most ancient forefathers, and now adorned the head of their warrior-god Huitzilopochtli.  Motecusuma, he further added, would certainly be uncommonly pleased if he could likewise see this casque".

"Cortés, on hearing this, ordered the casque  to be presented to him, thereby expressing the wish, that he should like to satisfy himself that the gold of this country was similar to what we find in our rivers. If they would send him the casque full of gold dust, he would send it to our great emperor. Upon this Teuthlille took leave of Cortés and all of us, promising to return speedily, while Cortés, under the most tender of embraces, made him every profession of friendship".

"After this personage had taken his departure, we learnt that he was not merely a distinguished statesman, but also the most nimble pedestrian at Motecusuma's court. He did, indeed, use the utmost expedition to bring his monarch information, and hand over to him the paintings and presents. The great Motecusuma was vastly astonished at everything he heard and saw, and yet he was pleased. But, when at last he espied the casque, and compared it with that of the idol Huitzilopochtli, he no longer doubted for an instant that we belonged to that people, whom his forefathers had prophesied would, one time or other, come and subdue the country".

 

The Symbol

When Montezuma saw in person the symbol brandished by the Spaniards there was no longer any doubt that Cortes was Quetzalcoatl.

Unfortunately there is no mention as to the specific symbol on the conquistador helmet, however by looking at helmets from the time period as well as comparing symbology worn by the spanish at that time and symbols used by the Aztes we can deduce what that symbol would be. Most conquistador helmets were plain though the few that do bear symbols, bear the fleur de lis.

The flower or lily and sometimes iris bound together at the stem. It is found in many cultures for thousands of years, mostly famously a french symbol, it did not originate in france and one of the earliest depictions is in India 2 thousands years ago.

Its meaning varies based on cultures but it primarily represents divinity, fruit of knowledge and representing a trinity of gods or god.

The fleur de lis is found all over mesoamerican art, iconography and architecture. An important thing to remember is how the Aztecs did not have a writing system, they used symbols and pictograms. Symbolism was vastly important to them. It was this fleur de lis symbol, a symbol representing the trinity that composed quetzalcoatl, the Aztec god who was both man and god and born of a virgin and how at the time of the spanish conquest was undergoing a cultural fusion where Quetzalcoatl was becoming the only god of the Aztec, absorbing qualities of the rest of their cosmological deities and technically making the Aztec monotheistic in that sense. 

 

Christianity and Aztecs Compared 

Sounds familiar? The spanish thought so too. In fact they were so surprised to learn that the Aztecs had a religion so remarkably like Christianity that the Spanish genocided the Aztec people to cover this up. 

The Aztec believed Quetzalcoatl had returned to rule over them but Cortes took advantage of this and waged war on the Aztec, razing their cities and burning their art and culture. 

History will have you believe that the Aztecs gave up and wanted to die, that the spanish were doing the Aztecs a favor by fulfilling some religious prophecy. The Aztecs died defending their land, they lost and the victors decided the history.

History writes the Aztec as a brutal and barbaric place, filled with human sacrifice and endless wars.

 

Aztec Religion

Without the Aztecs telling their own history, we can only guess as to their reasonings and motivations. It is my own estimation that the Aztec, being a psychedelic culture and whose rituals revolved around the entheogenic use of mushrooms and herbs, likely had a much deeper understanding of life than they are given credit for. Death was an illusion to them, a part of a broader cycle within their cosmology. Anything they took from the land, they offered back equally. They took the heads of mushrooms so they must offer their own heads back.

This is represented in their art of mushroom heads. Many of the sacrificial rituals occurred during large mushrooms trips. The sacrificers would die during their trip, something you can imagine being highly significant to them. 

One of Aztec’s most important mushrooms was the amanita muscaria. Everything, even the astrological significance of Venus, the virgin birth, the trinity, the eucharistic ritual, the themes of sacrifice and the drinking of blood and body. When the spanish saw the mushroom rituals of the Aztec they were amazed and horrified how alike it was to their own Catholic rituals of bread and wine. 

The Fall of the Aztec

They condemned the Aztecs as being a heinous mockery of christianity, as devil worshippers and pagan heathens. 

Thus killing the Aztecs was the work of God. In fact one of the only monks to have saved any codexes from the Aztecs did so to prove how similar their beliefs and rituals were to the Catholic ones. To prove how “savage” and bedeviled the Aztec people were. Other than that, very little survived the cultural erasing Christians enacted upon them.

In one way or another, it does seem that the Quetzalcoatl second coming was fulfilled either through coincidence, as is taught, some sort of synchronicity, or perhaps even a twisted kind of manifestation. Doomsday is built into the belief system of the Aztecs and Christian‘s alike, maybe this is just knowledge of the inevitable cycle of nations rising and falling on a cosmological scale.

 

The research mainly comes from this website as well as some of my own studies and interpretations. Its worth checking out if you are interested.

A lot of this may not make sense unless you have heard that the same mushroom, A. muscaria is the eucharist of early versions of christianity. The Aztec religion bearing so many parallels perhaps indicates cosmological archetypes that originated from the same entheogen.

https://www.mushroomstone.com

There are hundreds of pages of research in this website. If you want a rabbit hole to sink hours into, this is a good place. I will probably start a topic on Christianity and mushrooms since I have studied this extensively as well.

Where did you get this story?   It seems like christian european bull***t to me.    There was no comparison to the christian and Aztec beliefs.  The roman empire spread a lot of rumors about the Aztecs and the Mayans in order to justify their attempt at complete genocide.   Nevermind my question, I see you put a link at the bottom.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Desertrat56

[+Desertrat56]

5 hours ago, fishinginspace said:

Yea this devastated them. However disease did not burn their codexes and erase their history, culture and art.

Right the warrior priests sent by pope greg 14 did that.  It was because their texts proved that euopeans were not as smart as the natives of the americas.  Back then the romans couldn't even keep a proper calendar.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Desertrat56

[Piney]

2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Right the warrior priests sent by pope greg 14 did that.  It was because their texts proved that euopeans were not as smart as the natives of the americas.  Back then the romans couldn't even keep a proper calendar.

 

[+Desertrat56]

18 minutes ago, Piney said:

 

Someone had to say it.   I got the number wrong, it was Pope greg the 13th.    He introduced his calendar that the whole roman empire and any other empire that wants to do business with the roman empire currently uses.    He gave the mayan calanders to his mathemeticians (maybe the jesuits) to decipher and they used the Mayan solar calendar to redesign the roman calendar so that they did not have to Fix it every 10 years (they were so stupid they waited 10 years for it to be so out of synch with the solar revolutions before they would fix it).    It is where leap day comes from.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Desertrat56

[Herbert Sanders]

Here is a nice coincidence to ponder about the number 13:

• A Great Year, which is 360° of axial precession,  has a duration of 25,771½ years.
• 1° = 25,771½ ÷ 360° = 71.6 years
• 13 Baktun = 13 × 144,000 days = 1,872,000 days = 71.6° of axial precession.
• 13° of axial precession = 50 (lunar) nodal precession periods = 930.6 years.
• The lifespan of Adam is said to have been 930 years.

If F = 71.6°, then f =  71.6 years and f' = 1 year.

[Trelane]

3 hours ago, Herbert Sanders said:

Here is a nice coincidence to ponder about the number 13:

• A Great Year, which is 360° of axial precession,  has a duration of 25,771½ years.
• 1° = 25,771½ ÷ 360° = 71.6 years
• 13 Baktun = 13 × 144,000 days = 1,872,000 days = 71.6° of axial precession.
• 13° of axial precession = 50 (lunar) nodal precession periods = 930.6 years.
• The lifespan of Adam is said to have been 930 years.

If F = 71.6°, then f =  71.6 years and f' = 1 year.

This relates to the OP how? 

[Herbert Sanders]

3 hours ago, Trelane said:

This relates to the OP how? 

 

On 9/28/2022 at 4:40 AM, fishinginspace said:

Christians recognized a near identical religion in the Aztec culture as that of their own.

Perhaps they have a common origin?

[+Desertrat56]

5 hours ago, Trelane said:

This relates to the OP how? 

It is possible that the mention I made of the Mayan calendar triggered this because of the 13 moon calendar that Jose Arguelles sold for years, claiming it was based on the Mayan solar calendar, which it was, but he changed it to have day 1 of the calendar be the date of his daughter's death.  And his math was messed up so that when the year 2000 arrived the calendar was off.    By then it was called the Dreamspell calendar and the name is very accurate (dream spell, someone called it a virus of the mind)

Hey Jojo ( @Herbert Sanders)   are you a follower of the dreamspell?

Edited September 30, 2022 by Desertrat56

[Herbert Sanders]

23 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Hey Jojo ( @Herbert Sanders)   are you a follower of the dreamspell?

No I am not, had to look it up. Having looked a bit into the Mayan Long Count I have come to disagree with the correlation constant used by Goodman, Martinez & Thompson (GMT 1-3, C-584283-584285), which is the basis of the 2012 date. If you ask me then all that new age spirituality goes straight to the bin, however I do find it entertaining to compare systems of thought and examine commonalities.

[+Desertrat56]

8 minutes ago, Herbert Sanders said:

No I am not, had to look it up. Having looked a bit into the Mayan Long Count I have come to disagree with the correlation constant used by Goodman, Martinez & Thompson (GMT 1-3, C-584283-584285), which is the basis of the 2012 date. If you ask me then all that new age spirituality goes straight to the bin, however I do find it entertaining to compare systems of thought and examine commonalities.

Yes I agree with you.   There is so much european/roman skewing of theories that the reality is never considered.    In order to understand we would have to be trained in the thinking of that culture.   And the 2012 date was used by the holy roman empire to scare people, manipulate them or what ever, it was never a real end date, it was just the calculations they were working on when the warrior roman priests started killing the people who were keeping the calendars.   

I have found several reasons to throw the new age "spirituality" in the bin.

[Trelane]

I see references to precession and attempts of linking the two by a common origin. All this makes me think of is Graham Hancock's books.