Most U.S. voters now say Trump should not be allowed to serve as president again

[preacherman76]

5 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I just don't see the logic in that.  The very best way for the elites to make money and increase their power  is to keep us stable, happy, and productive. There is less gain for them in a collapsing civilization.  I do think things can fall apart,  but mainly because of our own greed and stupidity. 
 

Oh they will return us to all that, to some extent, soon as we have felt enough pain, and are willing to give over even more power. I mean come on Tate, think about it. How do you openly do your best to shut down the oil industry, with no realistic plan to replace it, and think stability is the goal? 

5 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I don't think Trump can make any difference whatsoever.  I know we disagree on that. I worked for a Fortune 500 company in 2016.  I thought Trump might be an alternative. I did the research, you can too.  I came out thinking Trump was not as successful or competent  as portrayed. I gave my vote to an independent because he deserved it more for his policies than either of the other two. I don't count on Trump to help us in what we are going to experience. 

We aren’t as far off in that belief as you might think. I doubt there’s enough time for anyone to stop it. He can’t even run for two more years. 

[+Razman]

18 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

  His supporters see him as a capable executive with excellent instincts

I guess this is another example of his superior executive skills . But he does always seem to escape his debt though , i'll give him that. Seems to be his favorite  rehashed line  >> " I'm smart , i got out at a good time" . Seems to get a lot of loans forgiven. 

 

Trump's interest in aviation might stem from his short stint owning an airline. In 1989, he raised $365 million to purchase the Eastern Air Shuttle, which consisted of 21 Boeing 727s that Trump spent $1 million each to refurbish. 

After 18 months, Trump lost over $125 million but claimed he didn't lose money on the shuttle, telling The Boston Globe: "I'm smart. I got out at a good time.

 

The news outlet reported that after missing a $1.1 million interest payment, Trump asked Citibank to defer future payments. Because he had leverage over his creditors, Trump was no longer responsible for the $245 million in loans, and from the $135 million that he had personally guaranteed, at least $100 million was forgiven, as per the outlet.

By 1992, he walked away from it.

 

 

Trump — who ran his own airline into the ground — used his big rally finale to bash the industry in a bizarre rant: 'They don't know what the hell they're doing' (msn.com)

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by razman

[Tatetopa]

8 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I mean come on Tate, think about it. How do you openly do your best to shut down the oil industry, with no realistic plan to replace it, and think stability is the goal? 

I have not noticed that the oil industry is anywhere near shutting down.  I have heard of some alternatives though.   Regardless of any climate change rhetoric, linking society and technology to one resource that is controlled by a few is not good for survival of any nation.  How many conflicts has petroleum already dragged us into?  How many more will there be? Petroleum and natural gas are great sources of energy, but they cannot continue to be 95% of our requirements if we want any kind of stability in the future.  There are a lot of logical reasons to find alternatives. Cheaper gas for one.  You and I never need to own electric cars, but if 15% of other people do, gasoline has to drop in price to retain market share.  We still benefit.

It is not just some woke foolishness.  Consider this:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate

This 100% solar community endured Hurricane Ian with no loss of power and minimal damage.

 

A community of 2000 houses all with the no loss of power right in the direct path of Ian  now surrounded by 2.5 million people in the dark.

 

[Hankenhunter]

19 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

It’s the process of political decay in America IMO. Basically, before Bush no one really would have thought we’d see vast swathes of the media calling the president an idiot and later a warmonger. Even Carter was simply dismissed as “useless” or “ineffective”. But Bush? War criminal. 
After Bush we had Obama, where we had entire segments of society calling his presidency into question, increases insults and increased factionality on both sides.
And BAM enter Trump. Factionalism has become tribalism. The other contender for president outright says “not my president” and calls the election into question (just a little, just to pander to the tribe). There are not just jokes, not just lone loons on the internet saying crap, not just the odd talking head talking bollox but actual protests. Riots. 
Trump loses and we get insurrection. 
Both sides are feeding off the other, both sides going one step further each time than the other. Both sides using the same rhetoric but just a little more vitriolic. 
So … if Trump wins in 2024… will there just be questions about how? Will there just be screaming women on the streets and the odd riot? Or will there be a night of broken glass? Will whole states declare “not my president” and refuse to send electors? 
If Biden wins in 2024 … will there just be questions about how? Will there just be screaming women on the streets and the odd riot? Or will there be a night of broken glass? Will whole states declare “not my president” and refuse to send electors?

the whole system is rotting. People are losing faith and it REALLY looks like people are abusing the system, that there are “rules for thee that do not apply to me” going on. 

Biden's not running again.

[acidhead]

5 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I have not noticed that the oil industry is anywhere near shutting down.  I have heard of some alternatives though.   Regardless of any climate change rhetoric, linking society and technology to one resource that is controlled by a few is not good for survival of any nation.  How many conflicts has petroleum already dragged us into?  How many more will there be? Petroleum and natural gas are great sources of energy, but they cannot continue to be 95% of our requirements if we want any kind of stability in the future.  There are a lot of logical reasons to find alternatives. Cheaper gas for one.  You and I never need to own electric cars, but if 15% of other people do, gasoline has to drop in price to retain market share.  We still benefit.

It is not just some woke foolishness.  Consider this:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate

This 100% solar community endured Hurricane Ian with no loss of power and minimal damage.

 

A community of 2000 houses all with the no loss of power right in the direct path of Ian  now surrounded by 2.5 million people in the dark.

 

Just curious.... 

Were any solar panels damaged? 

Also how far inland is Babcock Ranch?

I ask because from a quick look into Babcock Ranch it's said the power didn't go out because the utility infrastructure is all underground which is a great idea in areas not prone to flooding?

Short term the power didn't go out with I presume batteries. Long term I'm curious how quickly solar panels can be replaced to keep up to the power grid. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by acidhead

[Tatetopa]

14 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

It’s a wild game being played. However Bush was a war monger on a criminal level, and so was Obama. Just as bad, they were both completely sold out to banksters. The people waking up to all this was a good thing. A very good thing. 

Well, we do agree on that too.

14 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

He didn’t burn whole country’s to the ground like the last two.

And that.

[jmccr8]

19 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Great post I certainly agree with you and it’s a frightening concept of what our political system has become. I guess the question is where do we go from here, and how will it all end. The thing I never considered was having our military actually in the street’s fighting other Americans if it comes to that our Nation and the American way of life as we know it is over. It’s a very bleak out look to even consider but it certainly may end up being the future of our country. 

Hi Grim

Personally I think political representatives should not be allowed to defame any political party or party member during or after elections and should focus of developing a cohesive plan and promote it. Everyone knows every plan has flaws and those flaws should be addressed in order to strengthen the plan.

I see government as property managers and like any business should submit a business plan so voters vote for the plan and not the candidate solely. The opposition’s job would be to see that the party in power adheres to their business plan while having 4 years to revise their own business plan that incorporates the objectives of what the voters want.

Things like abortion should not be electoral platforms and left to the choice of the individuals like many other problems that abstract from what does the country need to sustain itself and grow. Conflict on some issues is a waste of time and money that are used to manipulate the emotions of the voters distracting from other more significant problems.

[Grim Reaper 6]

22 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Grim

Personally I think political representatives should not be allowed to defame any political party or party member during or after elections and should focus of developing a cohesive plan and promote it. Everyone knows every plan has flaws and those flaws should be addressed in order to strengthen the plan.

I agree with you defamation of your opponents or other members of one’s own political party is wrong and a waste of time better spent trying to correct the Nation’s problems.

22 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

I see government as property managers and like any business should submit a business plan so voters vote for the plan and not the candidate solely. The opposition’s job would be to see that the party in power adheres to their business plan while having 4 years to revise their own business plan that incorporates the objectives of what the voters want.

I also agree with you right above unfortunately that’s not what is occurring in America today.

22 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Things like abortion should not be electoral platforms and left to the choice of the individuals like many other problems that abstract from what does the country need to sustain itself and grow. Conflict on some issues is a waste of time and money that are used to manipulate the emotions of the voters distracting from other more significant problems.

The tribalism spoken about in others posts is a direct result of manipulation of the emotions of Americans. When politicians use their base to create distractions more significant issues can even be considered, so yes I also agree with you here completely it’s a dam shame really. 

[Tatetopa]

1 minute ago, acidhead said:

Just curious.... 

Were any solar panels damaged? 

I ask because from a quick look into Babcock Ranch it's said the power didn't go out because the utility infrastructure is all underground. 

Short term the power didn't go out with I presume batteries. Long term I'm curious how quickly solar panels can be replaced to keep up to the power grid. 

Good read.  It is a package isn't it?  You also might have noticed street planning to carry flood waters away. I would surely guess a lot of panels were damaged, but I did not see a mention of that.  

It is planning and a newer concept.    The rest of Florida and most of the United States works on large power plants 100 or so miles away and overhead cables that carry power, and usually  communication cables.  After every storm convoys of high boom power trucks fan out and work for several days to restore power.  Time after time, and it is never cheap.

On the survival and prepper channels  there are always sales on small solar arrays to charge a phone or run a refrigerator.   

Solar power is still expensive, but dispense with any climate change rhetoric and there is still one overriding major advantage: freedom and personal control.  In most areas solar on your roof can power most of your house.  With a battery wall, you can keep going even if the grid goes down.   Hell, even with just a battery wall you charge off the grid you can have yourself a day or two  of operation if the grid goes down.

Must be the old hippie in me but I have never trusted global mega-corporations to care about me or my needs.  And those are the guys supplying most of our power.

As an aside, maybe you already know the largest refinery in the United States, which is also the largest single producer of gasoline and diesel, is in Port Arthur, Texas.  My uncle was a chemical engineer there back in the Texaco days. Now it is totally owned by ARAMCO the Saudi state petroleum company.    Think of that,  oil  refined right here in the US by the Princes.  It almost makes me feel noble when I buy my $5 a gallon gas, a portion of the profits go to support the Saudi monarchy.

[+Paranoid Android]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Conflict on some issues is a waste of time and money that are used to manipulate the emotions of the voters distracting from other more significant problems.

You mean like what the democrsts have been doing the last 7 years to Donald Trump? It's been nothing but emotional manipulation by them to make you hate him., aided by their friends in the mainstream media!

[Hankenhunter]

38 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

You mean like what the democrsts have been doing the last 7 years to Donald Trump? It's been nothing but emotional manipulation by them to make you hate him., aided by their friends in the mainstream media!

Nope. Trump created the animosity all by his loathsome self. His lies were/are legion. The majority saw through him, but the mouth breathers latched onto him like leaches. They saw in him what they saw in themselves. Sheer greed, and not having to be held to their crimes against society. 

[Gromdor]

50 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

You mean like what the democrsts have been doing the last 7 years to Donald Trump? It's been nothing but emotional manipulation by them to make you hate him., aided by their friends in the mainstream media!

You reallly think the majority of people can't identify a disgusting person by their own words and actions and rely on media to do it for them?  

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

You mean like what the democrsts have been doing the last 7 years to Donald Trump? It's been nothing but emotional manipulation by them to make you hate him., aided by their friends in the mainstream media!

Hi PA

Yes it works both ways as evidenced here in the forum. 
I don’t complain about politics because they are all wh0re masters waiting to crack the whip although there are some that I think have more appropriate moral standards and power changes people if you give it to them.

When I worked at the provincial legislative building back in the early 70s I would read 15 Canadian newspapers and the New York herald and LA times every day, I saw our government’s both federal and provincial play French against English, farmers with fisherman and dock workers to keep people distracted from unemployment, health care and other more relevant to all of us issues. I don’t vote or support a party, what you saw in the opinion piece of a quote you quoted me from is my political position and no existing political system reflects that nor do I expect one to exist. I live in a country that I swore an oath to and have fought with several different ruling political parties as that is the only right I have unless being arrested is my other right to say nothing. I do not really consider myself as a citizen due to those lacks of rights, it’s kind of like being in love with a woman you can’t stand.

I have always taken care of myself I am one old man in millions in this country that has lived an independent life and have people that know and trust my work. Nobody stops me from doing what I want to do if it is not immoral, illegal or using your (there not you specifically) time and money so I don’t care.

Edited October 3, 2022 by jmccr8

[Freez1]

Fake BS news! if Trump runs he’s got my vote! Biden is a Mindless POS and Harris is a joke. Trump was a pain in the ass but he put more into this country in 4 years than Obama did in 8. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Freez1

[Tatetopa]

20 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I doubt there’s enough time for anyone to stop it.

I owe you for causing me to think.  I remember the old Jimmy Stewart movie "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" , about the poor but honest country boy who gets elected to Congress and straightens them  out.  It is now baked in our mythology, an honest, dedicated outsider  who could fix everything. It is an honorable thing to believe in.

Donald Trump appeared to many to be that guy, the talented outsider who could fix it.  I think he pretended to be that guy because he knew that was a figure most people desperately wanted to appear.  For the first of the Republican debates, I thought he just might be that guy, so I researched what I could find on his business and life.

Anyway, thanks.

[RavenHawk]

On 10/1/2022 at 2:53 PM, spartan max2 said:

If Afghanistan is your gripe than it's surprising you aren't more negative to Trump.

Trump had an agreement set up to give Afghanistan to the Taliban.

Afghanistan is but one act of incompetence.  Trump was getting us out of Afghanistan with honor.  We would probably have kept Bagram and offered support to the Afghan army.  Trump had the Taliban on a leash for 18 months to that point.  And Bidet made it a disaster.  Instead of an honorable retreat, it turned out to be an embarrassing rout.  Instead of getting civilians out first or even pulling out $85 billion in high tech equipment (that could have gone to Ukraine), Bidet enabled the Taliban and demoralized the Afghan army in one fell swoop.  This will be one of the main investigations looked into in January.  Long Island/New York, St Clair’s defeat on the Wabash, Little Big Horn, Kasserine Pass, Osan, Tabas (Desert One), and Vietnam are listed as some of this nation’s worse defeats.  But Afghanistan supplants them all as the worse to date.  And with the current Administration, if we engage in anything else, we will see worse.

 

Quote

Also, blaming the economy on Biden is myoptic. There are global inflation and supply issues happening right now and the US is actually considered to be doing relatively well compared to others.

Not myopic, … deserved.  To say that there are global inflation and supply issues is ignoring root causes.  All Bidet had to do was keep to Trump’s policies and we would be doing better than “relatively well”.  We could have been the salvation of the world and provided stabilizing leadership.  Trump’s economy would have raised us above what is happening.  The Left has surrendered the advantage over and over again in the last 20 years.  As I said earlier, the idiom,  ‘as goes Rome, so goes the world’.  Meaning that if the US has a sniffle, the world catches cold.  Likewise, a strong leader could have prevented the world from getting a cold or at least made it milder.  But a weak leader lays a cold on death’s doorstep.  The world sees the weakness, enemies and allies alike.

 

[+Desertrat56]

On 9/30/2022 at 11:53 PM, and-then said:

I think that even the "true believers" among his haters know deep down that he'd very likely win if he runs.  That's why I expect a massive effort against him as soon as he announces.  They aren't going to give the election a chance.  I think they are so convinced that they have the RIGHT to refuse to obey the will of the majority of voters in the majority of states, that they aren't able to grasp what that will mean for the country.  It will spell the end.

Last time he campaigned for 4 years, he only has 2 years left and just because he is fund raising (which he has been doing for ever) does not mean he will run. @Tatetopa made a good point about his age and him being prone to confusion often.  He will not run and even if he thinks he is running the republicans will not have him.   They want DeSantis or Pence and currently the party is the gate keeper, not the people, it is the big reason I don't vote for either party.   You can keep hoping he will run but I hope you will not have some kind of mental break when he doesn't.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Desertrat56

[+Desertrat56]

On 10/1/2022 at 8:53 AM, Portre said:

Americans.

Wow!  Now it looks like you are making stuff up.  Americans could be Canadians, Mexicans, just people in one city, or some random small sample that is the point of the question.    

[+Desertrat56]

On 10/1/2022 at 8:58 AM, Gromdor said:

I think Trump has to run.  He needs the legal immunity being president has as well as the ability to pardon crimes.

All of his legal tactics have been to delay not clarify his innocence.

Except for the "has to run" part I agree.  But he can't run, he is too demented and the republican party is done with him no matter how many southern republican politicians use him to get themselves elected, the party is done with him.

[Tatetopa]

38 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Trump was getting us out of Afghanistan with honor.  We would probably have kept Bagram and offered support to the Afghan army.

He was not doing anything but talking after he told the world the Afghan government were losers. He would not have supported anyone, that was his deal with the Taliban.

His choice would have been to fly out used equipment and leave the Afghan helpers to rot as the Muslim savages he thought they were.  He and Mark Miller certainly did not want any refugees in the US regardless of how they put their lives on the line for US troops.

[+Desertrat56]

On 10/1/2022 at 2:53 PM, spartan max2 said:

If Afghanistan is your gripe than it's surprising you aren't more negative to Trump.

Trump had an agreement set up to give Afghanistan to the Taliban.

Also, blaming the economy on Biden is myoptic. There are global inflation and supply issues happening right now and the US is actually considered to be doing relatively well compared to others.

What do you expect from someone who isn't even in the U.S.   In this thread anything @Cookie Monster says is trolling.   He doesn't know and he doesn't care, just likes to spout nonsense.

[+Desertrat56]

On 10/1/2022 at 4:00 PM, razman said:

Yea , and i wouldn't call it surrendering to Afghanistan (referring to Cookie's post) , i mean how long were the troops there ? You know they had control mostly , but how can you stop sporadic guerilla fighting from the shadows, it was time for the Afghan military to take it from there , but they didn't even have the will to do it. 

Makes me wonder why we were there in the first place.  I suspect the Afghan people did not ask us, the British did.   And they had no business there to begin with except to protect their financial intersts, not any of the people.

[+Desertrat56]

On 10/1/2022 at 8:45 PM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

It’s the process of political decay in America IMO. Basically, before Bush no one really would have thought we’d see vast swathes of the media calling the president an idiot and later a warmonger. Even Carter was simply dismissed as “useless” or “ineffective”. But Bush? War criminal. 
After Bush we had Obama, where we had entire segments of society calling his presidency into question, increases insults and increased factionality on both sides.
And BAM enter Trump. Factionalism has become tribalism. The other contender for president outright says “not my president” and calls the election into question (just a little, just to pander to the tribe). There are not just jokes, not just lone loons on the internet saying crap, not just the odd talking head talking bollox but actual protests. Riots. 
Trump loses and we get insurrection. 
Both sides are feeding off the other, both sides going one step further each time than the other. Both sides using the same rhetoric but just a little more vitriolic. 
So … if Trump wins in 2024… will there just be questions about how? Will there just be screaming women on the streets and the odd riot? Or will there be a night of broken glass? Will whole states declare “not my president” and refuse to send electors? 
If Biden wins in 2024 … will there just be questions about how? Will there just be screaming women on the streets and the odd riot? Or will there be a night of broken glass? Will whole states declare “not my president” and refuse to send electors?

the whole system is rotting. People are losing faith and it REALLY looks like people are abusing the system, that there are “rules for thee that do not apply to me” going on. 

There is a light at the end of the tunnel if people would just look at it.  Ranked choice voting that would remove the strangle hold control and divisiveness  that the two parties have on our elections.  We need to take both parties out of the equation.  Once elected no matter what party one was representing the electees NEED to quit acting like there is a war on, the war is imaginary, I have seen collusion from the two parties to get something they both want.   The totally control everything and it is never about representing the people it is always about representing big money.

[+Desertrat56]

18 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

You mean like what the democrsts have been doing the last 7 years to Donald Trump? It's been nothing but emotional manipulation by them to make you hate him., aided by their friends in the mainstream media!

It's both sides using emotional manipulation on the zombies who don't want to think for themselves, which in my opinion, anyone who chooses one of those sides is a zombie that is letting themselves be emotionally  manipulated with lies and insinuations and fear.    It is really getting old.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Desertrat56

[WVK]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Except for the "has to run" part I agree.  But he can't run, he is too demented and the republican party is done with him no matter how many southern republican politicians use him to get themselves elected, the party is done with him.

WSJ has had enough
https://www.mediaite.com/print/wsj-denounces-trumps-death-wish-attack-on-mcconnell-and-his-wife-ugly-even-by-trumps-standards/