professor is fired after 82 students sign petition for making the subject 'too hard'

[glorybebe]

• Maitland Jones Jr., 84, was fired from New York University after 82 of his 350 students signed a petition against him
• Students claimed course materials for his organic chemistry class were too hard and blamed Jones for their poor test scores
• Jones previously taught at Princeton before moving to a yearly contract teaching at NYU, and later wrote a 1,300-page textbook on the subject he taught
• Jones said he noticed students struggling to reintegrate to in-person classes post-COVID-19 - a decade after he noticed a loss of focus among his students
• Former students and NYU faculty defended Jones, citing poor conduct from students

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11276533/NYU-professor-fired-students-sign-petition-rid-making-subject-hard.html

Well...yeah like i would want to go to a hospital they worked at.   Wow

[Abramelin]

The future will be ruled by sissies.

May the gods have mercy for what we brought forth.

[glorybebe]

It used to be an accomplishment to have the degrees on the wall to show off where the doctor's graduated from.  Pretty soon it will be an embarrassment.  And it will also determine who is at the top to be hired and which schools will be like scraping the bottom of the barrel

[MGB]

"2+2=5"

"Wrong!"

"You're making this too hard!"

"O. K, O.K, 2+2=5"

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Sooo…. Don’t turn up, don’t tune in, don’t do the work … get the professor fired when you fail? 
What a world we’ve created. 

[+susieice]

I see the cost of malpractice insurance skyrocketing. 

This sounds like NYU is more upset over low test scores than that the students won't study and apply themselves. A doctorate isn't easy to obtain. Substandard students are. And that's what this school is heading for.

Edited October 4, 2022 by susieice

[glorybebe]

1 hour ago, MGB said:

"2+2=5"

"Wrong!"

"You're making this too hard!"

"O. K, O.K, 2+2=5"

Not far off the mark.  How many kids can do times tables?  I laughed when reading this because I have watched those Gen Z YouTube videos where the kids are absolutely clueless.  I was mire involved in my daughter's education and development in critical thinking.  Hiw many parents just leave it to the achools?  Unfortunately,  this is the result

[Golden Duck]

Just now, glorybebe said:

I was mire involved in my daughter's education and development in critical thinking.  Hiw many parents just leave it to the achools?

[Doug1066]

I have a minor in organic chemistry.  It is a difficult subject and is not supposed to be anything else.  It is how they weed out people who shouldn't be in that major.  Sounds like there are 68 of them.

Doug

[+Desertrat56]

In the 80's when I was at UNM I took a computer class that was required and it had prerequisites, like algebra2 & Trigonometry.   The teacher was the head of the department and there were 3 people in the class that did not have the prerequisites but somehow they were there.  One of them even asked when he was giving us an example of a proof that was essentially 1 + 1 = 2, "How did you get that answer?"   We all groaned because her questions were often that basic.   When we had our midterm he told us after grading it that he had thrown out the last 3 questions because someone had complained that 2 1/2 hours was not long enough to complete the test.   !!!   I missed question 2 and got the last 3 correct so my grade suffered.  Luckily not much but still!   That was in the 80's so this crap has been going on longer than you think.    

[Doug1066]

15 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

In the 80's when I was at UNM I took a computer class that was required and it had prerequisites, like algebra2 & Trigonometry.   The teacher was the head of the department and there were 3 people in the class that did not have the prerequisites but somehow they were there.  One of them even asked when he was giving us an example of a proof that was essentially 1 + 1 = 2, "How did you get that answer?"   We all groaned because her questions were often that basic.   When we had our midterm he told us after grading it that he had thrown out the last 3 questions because someone had complained that 2 1/2 hours was not long enough to complete the test.   !!!   I missed question 2 and got the last 3 correct so my grade suffered.  Luckily not much but still!   That was in the 80's so this crap has been going on longer than you think.    

I once gave an exam that was missing key information to one of the questions.  Those poor kids tried to solve an insoluble problem.

Doug

[+Desertrat56]

5 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

I once gave an exam that was missing key information to one of the questions.  Those poor kids tried to solve an insoluble problem.

Doug

Did no one ask you about it after the test?

After that test if that one person asked a question we all got up and walked out of class because we knew nothing else would be taught that day.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Desertrat56

[Doug1066]

10 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Did no one ask you about it after the test?

After that test if that one person asked a question we all got up and walked out of class because we knew nothing else would be taught that day.

I discovered it during the test.  I told them to skip the question.

 

Christmas just arrived.  My new microscope got here.  I'm going to have fun tomorrow setting it up.

Doug

[Agent0range]

I completely understand this.  I took a calculus class in college with a professor that was literally too smart to teach.  He couldn't understand how you couldn't understand the information, because it came to easy to him.  Our class started with over 30 students.  When we took the final, we were down to 6.  Besides myself, I have no idea how many others passed.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

7 hours ago, MGB said:

"2+2=5"

"Wrong!"

"You're making this too hard!"

"O. K, O.K, 2+2=5"

That's more real than people think. 

"A move to change the way math is taught in Oregon public schools drew the wrath of Jim Gearhart.

According to a course being promoted by the Oregon Department of Education, “white supremacy culture” infiltrates classrooms because math requires students to show their work and find the right answer."

LINK

There are no incorrect answers! how wonderful.

 

[Occupational Hubris]

2 hours ago, Agent0range said:

I completely understand this.  I took a calculus class in college with a professor that was literally too smart to teach.  He couldn't understand how you couldn't understand the information, because it came to easy to him.  Our class started with over 30 students.  When we took the final, we were down to 6.  Besides myself, I have no idea how many others passed.

I had a chem professor like this. He knew the subject backward and forward but he could not teach it at all. We made our own study groups to make sense of what he was trying to teach. Only way some of us were able to pass. Last I heard he;s still teaching there. Some people just cannot teach. 

[+ouija ouija]

Dare one mention his age as a factor in this?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 hours ago, ouija ouija said:

Dare one mention his age as a factor in this?

Why? Because “he made it too hard” was literally their justification.

[+ouija ouija]

41 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Why? Because “he made it too hard” was literally their justification.

* shrugs * Who knows? Maybe he was unnecessarily scathing of their efforts. Maybe there were some little things he could have done to help their understanding. There's a good chance that at his age he is jaded and continuing in his job because he doesn't know what else to do. 

Or maybe the students arrive at his first class with too little knowledge and are always playing catch-up. It appears that he did something to address this, but it's possible that he just has a general attitude of despair at the younger generation(they are 60+ years younger than him), and he recalls his youth as being a golden age when he and his peers put so much more effort into their studies.

[MGB]

7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

That's more real than people think. 

"A move to change the way math is taught in Oregon public schools drew the wrath of Jim Gearhart.

According to a course being promoted by the Oregon Department of Education, “white supremacy culture” infiltrates classrooms because math requires students to show their work and find the right answer."

LINK

There are no incorrect answers! how wonderful.
 

That's mainly why I posted that. I read somewhere a year or two ago that a close answer would suffice as the correct answer in some public schools, and that is just ridiculous in my mind. If NASA operated like that, we'd fire a rocket to Mars only to have it end up anywhere but.

Edited October 5, 2022 by MGB

[Myles]

5 hours ago, ouija ouija said:

* shrugs * Who knows? Maybe he was unnecessarily scathing of their efforts. Maybe there were some little things he could have done to help their understanding. There's a good chance that at his age he is jaded and continuing in his job because he doesn't know what else to do. 

Or maybe the students arrive at his first class with too little knowledge and are always playing catch-up. It appears that he did something to address this, but it's possible that he just has a general attitude of despair at the younger generation(they are 60+ years younger than him), and he recalls his youth as being a golden age when he and his peers put so much more effort into their studies.

Or maybe the students have gotten to lazy and used to things being easy for them that they refuse to put the work in that is required.  

Only 24% of his students signed it, so most were Ok with him.  

For me, learning how to handle classes with tough professors was a big part of the learning process.  

[moonman]

Maybe it was actually too hard and he was a **** teacher. Not for anyone who didn't actually take the class to say.

[+Desertrat56]

32 minutes ago, moonman said:

Maybe it was actually too hard and he was a **** teacher. Not for anyone who didn't actually take the class to say.

Well the man was 84 years old, maybe it was time for him to retire, but determining if it was too hard would have to be investigated, and the grades of students from previous classes would be the best indicator of that.  I suspect the students should have taken some pre-requisites that they either skipped or fudged before taking his class.   I recognize that teaching standards have changed a lot in the last 40 years and maybe this professor did not get the memo.  

Edited October 5, 2022 by Desertrat56

[Abramelin]

Advise to students. Attributed to Bill Gates:

Rule No. 1:   Life is not fair. Get used to it. The average teen-ager uses the phrase "It's not fair" 8.6 times a day. You got it from your parents, who said it so often you decided they must be the most idealistic generation ever. When they started hearing it from their own kids, they realized Rule No. 1.

Rule No. 2:   The real world won't care as much about your self-esteem as much as your school does. It'll expect you to accomplish something before you feel good about yourself. This may come as a shock. Usually, when inflated self-esteem meets reality, kids complain that it's not fair. (See Rule No. 1)

Rule No. 3:   Sorry, you won't make $40,000 a year right out of high school. And you won't be a vice president or have a car phone either. You may even have to wear a uniform that doesn't have a Gap label.

Rule No. 4:   If you think your teacher is tough, wait 'til you get a boss. He doesn't have tenure, so he tends to be a bit edgier. When you screw up, he's not going to ask you how you feel about it.

Rule No. 5:   Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparents had a different word for burger flipping. They called it opportunity. They weren't embarrassed making minimum wage either. They would have been embarrassed to sit around talking about Kurt Cobain all weekend.

Rule No. 6:   It's not your parents' fault. If you screw up, you are responsible. This is the flip side of "It's my life," and "You're not the boss of me," and other eloquent proclamations of your generation. When you turn 18, it's on your dime. Don't whine about it, or you'll sound like a baby boomer.

Rule No. 7:   Before you were born your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way paying your bills, cleaning up your room and listening to you tell them how idealistic you are. And by the way, before you save the rain forest from the blood-sucking parasites of your parents' generation, try delousing the closet in your bedroom.

Rule No. 8:   Your school may have done away with winners and losers. Life hasn't. In some schools, they'll give you as many times as you want to get the right answer. Failing grades have been abolished and class valedictorians scrapped, lest anyone's feelings be hurt. Effort is as important as results. This, of course, bears not the slightest resemblance to anything in real life. (See Rule No. 1, Rule No. 2 and Rule No. 4.)

Rule No. 9:   Life is not divided into semesters, and you don't get summers off. Not even Easter break. They expect you to show up every day. For eight hours. And you don't get a new life every 10 weeks. It just goes on and on. While we're at it, very few jobs are interested in fostering your self-expression or helping you find yourself. Fewer still lead to self-realization. (See Rule No. 1 and Rule No. 2.)

Rule No. 10:   Television is not real life. Your life is not a sitcom. Your problems will not all be solved in 30 minutes, minus time for commercials. In real life, people actually have to leave the coffee shop to go to jobs. Your friends will not be as perky or pliable as Jennifer Aniston.

Rule No. 11:   Be nice to nerds. You may end up working for them. We all could.

Rule No. 12:   Smoking does not make you look cool. It makes you look moronic. Next time you're out cruising, watch an 11-year-old with a butt in his mouth. That's what you look like to anyone over 20. Ditto for "expressing yourself" with purple hair and/or pierced body parts.

Rule No. 13:   You are not immortal. (See Rule No. 12.) If you are under the impression that living fast, dying young and leaving a beautiful corpse is romantic, you obviously haven't seen one of your peers at room temperature lately.

Rule No. 14:   Enjoy this while you can. Sure parents are a pain, school's a bother, and life is depressing. But someday you'll realize how wonderful it was to be a kid. Maybe you should start now. You're welcome.

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Rule No. 1:   Life is not fair. Get used to it. The average teen-ager uses the phrase "It's not fair" 8.6 times a day. You got it from your parents, who said it so often you decided they must be the most idealistic generation ever. When they started hearing it from their own kids, they realized Rule No. 1.

NO!  It came from teachers at public school, not parents.  What sane person would let their child rule the house with that phrase?   I nipped it in the bud when my kids came home from 2nd grade and declared that doing their chores "was not fair", chores they had been doing for at least 2 years were suddenly not fair.   I don't like Bill Gates but if he told people "life is not fair" I agree with him.  And you can't try to make it fair, that is the flaw in the public school system teachings, that the teacher has to make everything fair, so nothing gets taught except whining gets you what you want.

Rule No. 2 is the exact same problem just worded differently.  A trophey for participation that gets tossed out a month later, what a waste.