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Why does time go forwards, not backwards?


Still Waters
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Posted (IP: Staff) ·

The arrow of time began its journey at the Big Bang, and when the Universe eventually dies there will be no more future and no past. In the meantime, what is it that drives time ever onward?

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20221003-why-does-time-go-forwards-not-backwards

Long Read

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Posted (edited)

I think they are wasting "time" on nonsense.   Time isn't real and the fact that heat cannnot be pulled from a cold object by a hot object has nothing to do with time.  Entropy is real and we think it is linked to time, but...

Edited by Desertrat56
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Posted (edited)

It's because relative to time our universe is Flatland and we are squares.

Edited by Ell
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Interesting read.  So basically, according to the best available theories, we have no chance of being here….and yet, here we are.

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Why does time go forwards, not backwards?

Forwards!?!?  Isn't that circular thinking?

What does forwards mean in this context?

Think about it.

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Maybe it is going backwards and we just call it forwards. It's doing what it does, it doesn't matter what terms we use for it.

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On 10/5/2022 at 3:22 PM, Desertrat56 said:

I think they are wasting "time" on nonsense.   Time isn't real and the fact that heat cannnot be pulled from a cold object by a hot object has nothing to do with time.  Entropy is real and we think it is linked to time, but...

A lot of physicists would completely disagree with you there. The arrow of time is pretty solidly linked to the direction of entropy. Time as a self-contained "thing" doesn't exist, no, but the "arrow of time" does.

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On 10/5/2022 at 4:11 PM, Guyver said:

Interesting read.  So basically, according to the best available theories, we have no chance of being here….and yet, here we are.

Um.... no? That isn't what it says.

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On 10/5/2022 at 7:53 PM, Ozymandias said:

What does forwards mean in this context?

It means you can't unbreak an egg.

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2 hours ago, Emma_Acid said:

Um.... no? That isn't what it says.

Well, a probability of 0.01 x 10(-umpteen million) is mathematically zero…or in other words, no chance.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Emma_Acid said:

A lot of physicists would completely disagree with you there. The arrow of time is pretty solidly linked to the direction of entropy. Time as a self-contained "thing" doesn't exist, no, but the "arrow of time" does.

The thing is it is not time it is time-space, you can't have time if you don't have space/objects etc.   It is not a simple concept but time is never just time, it has to have some physical evidence to go with it.   

Edited by Desertrat56
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4 hours ago, Emma_Acid said:

It means you can't unbreak an egg.

Yes, Emma_Acid, I of all people should know that as a retired engineer. Natural processes are irreversible and entropy increases as time goes 'forward'.

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What is time? No one has the true answer of it's nature. Does it flow at all or do we move through it? How do we know it is going forward, forward realitive to what and where? Maybe entrophy was the start and the big bang was the end and we are actually bouncing backwards through time. You can't answer questions like this when the concept isn't well understood. Is linear time even a thing? Or is it simply what we precive? Again, things without real answers only asumptions based on human experince wich could be very wrong.

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I think one reason is ,because it’s easier to walk forward than backward? …it saves a lot of time.    And showers work better when the water comes down instead of going up?  Lots of things.

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5 hours ago, Guyver said:

Well, a probability of 0.01 x 10(-umpteen million) is mathematically zero…or in other words, no chance.

No, zero is "mathematically zero".

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4 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

The thing is it is not time it is time-space, you can't have time if you don't have space/objects etc.  

No strictly true, but I know what you're trying to say. You can't measure the arrow of time without an energy gradient.

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It is not a simple concept but time is never just time, it has to have some physical evidence to go with it.  

Time isn't a thing. Time is what we call the arrow of entropy. You're looking at time as a separate thing, and it isn't a thing at all.

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3 hours ago, Brandonchpr said:

What is time? No one has the true answer of it's nature

Yes we do. It's the flow of entopy.

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. Does it flow at all or do we move through it?

Time isn't a thing. It's just what we call the direction we move in because of entropy.

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How do we know it is going forward, forward realitive to what and where?

As I said above - you cannot unbreak an egg. Actually - you can. You can invent a machine that can rebuild an egg on a molecular level, but this action will use energy, and therefore increase the entropy of the universe, even if the egg itself is being put back together.

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Maybe entrophy was the start and the big bang was the end and we are actually bouncing backwards through time.

No, the early universe was low entropy. I have no idea what the rest of that sentence means.

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You can't answer questions like this when the concept isn't well understood.

Entropy is very well understood.

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Is linear time even a thing?

Not being rude, but do you even understand what this question means?

 

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4 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

No strictly true, but I know what you're trying to say. You can't measure the arrow of time without an energy gradient.

Time isn't a thing. Time is what we call the arrow of entropy. You're looking at time as a separate thing, and it isn't a thing at all.

No, I'm saying it is not a separate thing.  

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3 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Yes, Emma_Acid, I of all people should know that as a retired engineer. Natural processes are irreversible and entropy increases as time goes 'forward'.

These processes are reversable - you can make a chair out of a pile of wood for example. But this takes energy. Therefore the entropy of the universe increases, no matter what.

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2 hours ago, Emma_Acid said:

These processes are reversable - you can make a chair out of a pile of wood for example. But this takes energy. Therefore the entropy of the universe increases, no matter what.

Natural physical processes are not naturally reversible. The physical world will never make a chair out of wood or unscramble an egg. You are right to say that to reverse a natural process requires energy. The Second Law of Thermodynamics dictates that heat naturally 'flows' from hot to colder places. To make it go unnaturally in the opposite direction, as in a fridge or freezer, requires energy.

The arrow of time is naturally associated with increasing entropy. Does that mean that when no energy remains available in the universe to do useful (mechanical) work that it has reached the end of time. If entropy stops increasing, has time stopped? 

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In order for time to move backwards, every single particle in the universe needs to be first stopped in its trajectory, and then get pushed backwards and follow its old trajectory precisely, so it ends up exactly where it came from. The amount of energy and manipulation that would require, is much more that the universe contains or is capable of.

That's why time doesn't go backwards.

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3 hours ago, Emma_Acid said:
6 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

 

These processes are reversable - you can make a chair out of a pile of wood for example

But you can't turn that pile of wood back into a living tree. Death stops time going backwards.

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On 10/7/2022 at 4:34 PM, Emma_Acid said:

Yes we do. It's the flow of entopy.

 

Entrophy and time are not the same entity and exist separately. A progression of time does not immediately indicate a progression in Entrophy of a system. Time is a separate concept.

Our universe is described as a 3d space with 1 dimension of time. So I do believe time is discribed as a sperate entity from the flow of entopy.  

 

As for the confusion of weither I understand what I'm saying about linear time, consider that differnt people in differnt locations experince time differntly. There are theories that all of time exists already and the progression forward is the illusion. In this case time is lake rather than an arrow with brancing paths. That would be pretty nonlinear to me if we could access it. 

Edited by Brandonchpr
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Allow me to give a link to something a bit more adpet at wording this than I am

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7516914/#:~:text=The most important conclusion of,towards its maximum at equilibrium.

And this as well,

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.npr.org/transcripts/415003106&ved=2ahUKEwix2anmpdr6AhUsZDABHTKHC9YQFnoECC4QBQ&usg=AOvVaw0UcmO3aJFP8ZYHmDIQS8qR

 

Sorry for the horrible misspellings I'm tired and my phone isn't the greatest to type on. But there it is anyway. 

Edited by Brandonchpr
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What makes them think time moves forward?  That’s just there perception.   Furthermore, there is no time as it is called in the Real world.

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