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Do the laws of physics prevent us from having genuine free will ?


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Posted (edited)

This is a scalar issue. At the fulcrum of perspective free will is an inherent expression governed by the psyche of the experiencer. The more information the psyche contains the less likely free will remains the sole illusion.

 

Each to their own.

Edited by Frank_Hoenedge
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Posted (edited)

I think that type of 'determinism' discussed in the article is all predicated on a 'materialist-physicalist' philosophy. To me, that philosophy gets overwhelmed by data from the so-called psychic, spiritual and paranormal experiences of man. We live in a vastly deeper universe than is accepted and appreciated by materialist philosophy.

Edited by papageorge1
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This is a debate of determinism vs non-determinism.

Determinism is a lie, as is most of physics. They are lies because they don`t describe how actual objects which exist work. Instead, they describe how ideas work which we have convinced ourselves are actual objects.

Take General Relativity being used to calculate the gravitational attraction between the Earth and the Moon as an example. The Earth and Moon are ideas, not actual objects. They are two ideas about what a large number of atoms arranged in a particular way are. The atoms are real objects, but the Earth and Moon are ideas.

When we get down to investigating how actual objects work (aka, atoms) we find they are non-deterministic. Determinism is a fake narrative which emerges from having an idea made out of a large number of actual objects (its atoms). In essence, it describes average behaviours. We are ignorant that it describes averages because the large number of atoms involved in macroscopic objects hides its probabilistic nature.

Determinism should be renamed to pseudo-Determinism and as there is nothing real about it, then yes free will exists.

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21 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The Earth and Moon are ideas, not actual objects.

I'm not aware of any other ideas that you can land a spacecraft on, objects are usually required for that.

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Does it matter to know if we have free will or not? Can we do anything with that knowledge? It is like it is and to us it seems like we have free will in any case.

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I believe we have absolute free will .... up to the moment we make a decision .... whereupon no other decision was ever possible.   It's quantum :D    

(and this also means that no, a new alternative universe does not open 10 trillion times every second, whenever anything in one universe makes a decision - as some postulate.  In every case there was only ever one possible decision, so we only have one universe)

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We are all governed by psychopaths and other mentally handicapped people, so we indeed do not have free will.

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1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

The Earth and Moon are ideas, not actual objects. They are two ideas about what a large number of atoms arranged in a particular way are. The atoms are real objects, but the Earth and Moon are ideas.

Wow... CM, have you ever heard the expression "jumped the shark"?  

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50 minutes ago, Ell said:

We are all governed by psychopaths and other mentally handicapped people, so we indeed do not have free will.

We do have free will; however, the psychopaths can't affect us with our free will when we don't let them because of natural law, which goes back hundreds of years.  If you have no contract, then the psychopaths can't touch you without having problems if they do.  Learn the rules the psychopaths have installed.

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Quote

The Earth and Moon are ideas, not actual objects. They are two ideas about what a large number of atoms arranged in a particular way are. The atoms are real objects, but the Earth and Moon are ideas.

Do you know what ideas they represent though?   Earth = heart.  Moon = monolith, mammon?  

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24 minutes ago, and-then said:

Wow... CM, have you ever heard the expression "jumped the shark"?  

Maybe this is where it starts, not ends??

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1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

We choose till what we choose becomes habit.

habit: a long, loose garment worn by a member of a religious order.

And this is where we thought it ended, but still carries on without us knowing.

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2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Some believe our lives are all planed out and no free will :(

 karma ?

 actions in their  past lives they did so many horrible wrongs doings , planed on paying back? if true there is no free will. 

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15 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

 karma ?

 actions in their  past lives they did so many horrible wrongs doings , planed on paying back? if true there is no free will. 

There is nothing to support anything that happens in this life is due to some supposed past life. 

1 hour ago, and-then said:

Wow... CM, have you ever heard the expression "jumped the shark"?  

He jumped the whole aquarium.

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3 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I think that type of 'determinism' discussed in the article is all predicated on a 'materialist-physicalist' philosophy. To me, that philosophy gets overwhelmed by data from the so-called psychic, spiritual and paranormal experiences of man. We live in a vastly deeper universe than is accepted and appreciated by materialist philosophy.

It's based on science, not philosophy.  Regardless, I'm not aware of anything in the usual psychic, spiritual or paranormal mythos that would lead us to believe we have free will either, unless you're just talking about religion. All the usual paranormal and psychic stuff you believe in could exist and we could still not have free will; ghosts, MEs, ESP, etc, none of that would conflict with us not having that.  One exception would be that we could make the case that in some of religions where you are punished or rewarded for your behavior by divine powers that it is unfair to do that if one doesn't have free will, but the vast majority of paranormal stuff doesn't intersect at all with that question I don't think.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

There is nothing to support anything that happens in this life is due to some supposed past life. 

 

I asked a  person that believed in karma, why did this little girl get run over by a tractor ? and the person  said  cause  she murdered in her past life,  

Edited by docyabut2
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Just now, docyabut2 said:

I asked a  person that believed in karma, why did this little girl get run over by a tractor ? and the person  said  cause  she murdered in her past life,  

They do not know. You shouldn't believe everything people tell you in regards to this stuff. Might be why you feel so lost all the time. 

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

They do not know. You shouldn't believe everything people tell you in regards to this stuff. Might be why you feel so lost all the time. 

 Karma is believed to be a source of supernatural justice through which actions lead to morally congruent outcomes, within and across lifetimes.

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1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

 Karma is believed to be a source of supernatural justice through which actions lead to morally congruent outcomes, within and across lifetimes.

It is a belief. Nothing more. All we have is here and now. This life we live is a closed system. Would you not consider it unfair that a child be born with a deformity without ever knowing why on some Karmic scale? When you honestly think about such a thing it makes zero sense. Like punishing a kid for something they didn't do. I can't accept the mystical concept if karma.

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4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

It is a belief. Nothing more. All we have is here and now. This life we live is a closed system. Would you not consider it unfair that a child be born with a deformity without ever knowing why on some Karmic scale? When you honestly think about such a thing it makes zero sense. Like punishing a kid for something they didn't do. I can't accept the mystical concept if karma.

I don`t want to believe in  the kama  laws to, but I am a skeptical  to:)

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28 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

 Karma is believed to be a source of supernatural justice through which actions lead to morally congruent outcomes, within and across lifetimes.

Karma brings one back into balance with nature and natural law.

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