Israel must get rid of its nuclear weapons, UN majority decides

[+OverSword]

Quote

 

Israel must dispose of all its nuclear weapons and place its nuclear sites under the International Atomic Energy Agency’s purview, the United Nations General Assembly’s First Committee stated in an initial 152-5 vote.

The five nations that opposed Friday’s resolution on the “risk of nuclear proliferation in the Middle East” were: Canada, Israel, Micronesia, Palau and the United States. Another 24 countries abstained, including European Union members.

The annual resolution submitted by Egypt to the UNGA in New York was sponsored by the Palestinian Authority and 19 counties including Bahrain, Jordan, Morocco and the United Arab Emirates.

The resolution largely targets Israel, which is believed to be one of only nine nations to possess nuclear weapons. Israel has never admitted to having such weapons.

The resolution notes that Israel is the only country in the Middle East and one of the few among the UN’s 193 member states, which has not signed the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons Treaty

 

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[Guest chiron613]

Like that's ever gonna happen...

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, chiron613 said:

Like that's ever gonna happen...

Nor SHOULD it.  Anyone who deeply desires that is a person who is either childishly naive about the hate against the Jews or they also would not be troubled by all of her neighbors joining to destroy Israel.  There WILL be a cataclysmic war there eventually, but it won't be due to Israel attacking her neighbors.  Her "neighbors" will align themselves against Israel and there will be massive loss of life that could have been avoided but for the hate taught in Islam for the Jews.  

[Guest chiron613]

1 hour ago, and-then said:

Nor SHOULD it.  Anyone who deeply desires that is a person who is either childishly naive about the hate against the Jews or they also would not be troubled by all of her neighbors joining to destroy Israel.  There WILL be a cataclysmic war there eventually, but it won't be due to Israel attacking her neighbors.  Her "neighbors" will align themselves against Israel and there will be massive loss of life that could have been avoided but for the hate taught in Islam for the Jews.  

Yes, that's about my take on it.  The UN has consistently displayed hostility against Israel.  The idea that the UN could (or would) guarantee the safety of Israel if they gave up their nukes is silly.  The UN is not reliable.

And you know - why should Israel give up its nukes, when India and Pakistan have them, when many other countries have them?  Let the other UN nations give up their nukes, then.

[+joc]

Israel doesn't have any nuclear weapons.

[Alchopwn]

1 hour ago, joc said:

Israel doesn't have any nuclear weapons.

What Israel has is nuclear ambiguity.

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, joc said:

Israel doesn't have any nuclear weapons.

If that is true then when the coming war against Israel by Iran, Turkey, Russia, and multiple other Islamic nations begins, we will see the IDF struggle against all of those forces that are at every border of their nation.  One certainty, IMO, is that once this party gets started, it is going to be a horrific mess for the Lebanese, Syrians, Iranians, and Gazans.  Iran has built up a formidable force in Hizballah and thousands of rockets and PGMs will be hitting Israel every day.  They are going to return a level of fire that will kill thousands in southern Lebanon and Syria.  In fact, I think most of the world is going to be massively shocked at what Israel is capable of doing.  

[bmk1245]

Bad idea. We already see what happening to three countries that gave up nuclear weapons: one is at full blown war (Ukraine), one occupied (Belarus), and one is facing what Ukraine is experiencing now (Kazakhstan).

PS wtf Ukrainians are doing?! Did they voted out of spite? At least could have abstained....

[+joc]

3 hours ago, and-then said:

If that is true then when the coming war against Israel by Iran, Turkey, Russia, and multiple other Islamic nations begins, we will see the IDF struggle against all of those forces that are at every border of their nation.  One certainty, IMO, is that once this party gets started, it is going to be a horrific mess for the Lebanese, Syrians, Iranians, and Gazans.  Iran has built up a formidable force in Hizballah and thousands of rockets and PGMs will be hitting Israel every day.  They are going to return a level of fire that will kill thousands in southern Lebanon and Syria.  In fact, I think most of the world is going to be massively shocked at what Israel is capable of doing.  

 Honestly and-then...George Orwell's novel 1984 has more prophetic relevance than Revelations in the Bible.  Everything you just said is rooted in  your Armageddon Hal Lindsey type belief. 

No one knows really whether Israel has nuclear capabilities or not.  I would imagine they do.  But we are talking about them giving up something we don't even know they have.  

[odas]

2 hours ago, joc said:

 Honestly and-then...George Orwell's novel 1984 has more prophetic relevance than Revelations in the Bible.  Everything you just said is rooted in  your Armageddon Hal Lindsey type belief. 

No one knows really whether Israel has nuclear capabilities or not.  I would imagine they do.  But we are talking about them giving up something we don't even know they have.  

If they have them then they should not get rid off them. But, the same should be valid for any other country. All keep, produce, or all get rid of nukes. No nation, belief or history is above any other.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

What's the UN going to do? Send a sternly worded communique for Israel to comply? How's their vote against Russia working out?

[jmccr8]

Not sure what the problem is as they are a NATO member if they have them as so do other member countries 

[+and-then]

On 11/3/2022 at 5:58 AM, joc said:

 Honestly and-then...George Orwell's novel 1984 has more prophetic relevance than Revelations in the Bible.  Everything you just said is rooted in  your Armageddon Hal Lindsey type belief. 

No one knows really whether Israel has nuclear capabilities or not.  I would imagine they do.  But we are talking about them giving up something we don't even know they have.  

What part of that prediction is demonstrably false, joc?  Iran, Russia, and Turkey are already part of a defacto alliance.  You're free to consider predictions from that "book of fairytales" as nonsense but when you take that stance against actual, provable facts on the ground, it makes you look a bit desperate to disprove an idea simply because you do not believe in it.  Do you know of any historical occurrence of Russia, Turkey. and Iran all having an alliance?  TMK, that has never happened before and other than their shared goals in the middle east today there is no reason they'd currently be allied.  

The Hizballah (Party of God) is totally an Iranian creation.  They have amassed a stockpile of hundreds of thousands of rockets and missiles.  Most of the airstrikes we see in Syria are coming from Israel against not just missiles but shipments of hardware that turns ballistic missiles into precision guided weapons.  It's a lot like the shackle and fin kits we put on dumb JDAMS to make them "steerable" and thus far more accurate.  Iran makes it very clear their mission is to end the Jewish state.  Erdogan in Turkey is playing NATO and Russia for benefits from both but in the end, he has shown himself to have the desire to be a modern "Sultan" and leader of Sunni Islam in the region.  There are no better Bona Fides as a Jew hater than that.  

If that war began tomorrow and played out exactly as it has been predicted, tell the truth... you'd say it was "self-fulfilling", right?  You wouldn't feel the need to try to explain how the events were "self-fulfilled", though.  

[+and-then]

On 11/3/2022 at 8:30 AM, odas said:

If they have them then they should not get rid off them. But, the same should be valid for any other country. All keep, produce, or all get rid of nukes. No nation, belief or history is above any other.

Fair enough.  Let's say Iran tests a nuke next year and declares themselves a nuclear weapons state.  What happens in a few months or years when that government decides to impose its will on shipping through the Straits of Hormuz.  Consider this a thought exercise.  Go with the assumption.  The mullahs decide they are going to charge some fee for every vessel that passes through the Straits.  Who will say no?  What government will go to war with them if they begin sinking trade vessels who won't pay?  If they board and take possession of ships and crews, who will be able to stop them?  What then?  Is everyone still on an even footing?

 

[+and-then]

On 11/3/2022 at 11:48 AM, jmccr8 said:

Not sure what the problem is as they are a NATO member if they have them as so do other member countries 

Israel is not a member of NATO.  

[+joc]

7 minutes ago, and-then said:

What part of that prediction is demonstrably false, joc?  Iran, Russia, and Turkey are already part of a defacto alliance.  You're free to consider predictions from that "book of fairytales" as nonsense but when you take that stance against actual, provable facts on the ground, it makes you look a bit desperate to disprove an idea simply because you do not believe in it.  Do you know of any historical occurrence of Russia, Turkey. and Iran all having an alliance?  TMK, that has never happened before and other than their shared goals in the middle east today there is no reason they'd currently be allied.  

The Hizballah (Party of God) is totally an Iranian creation.  They have amassed a stockpile of hundreds of thousands of rockets and missiles.  Most of the airstrikes we see in Syria are coming from Israel against not just missiles but shipments of hardware that turns ballistic missiles into precision guided weapons.  It's a lot like the shackle and fin kits we put on dumb JDAMS to make them "steerable" and thus far more accurate.  Iran makes it very clear their mission is to end the Jewish state.  Erdogan in Turkey is playing NATO and Russia for benefits from both but in the end, he has shown himself to have the desire to be a modern "Sultan" and leader of Sunni Islam in the region.  There are no better Bona Fides as a Jew hater than that.  

If that war began tomorrow and played out exactly as it has been predicted, tell the truth... you'd say it was "self-fulfilling", right?  You wouldn't feel the need to try to explain how the events were "self-fulfilled", though.  

Neither Russia, nor Iran, nor Turkey are mentioned in revelations.  You and others, in a convoluted attempt to match that squash of literature to today's happenings simply project things onto it and say...see...look, that fits...The Kings of the North is Russia...I have read Revelations numerous times and there is nothing, absolutely nothing that adds up to reality in today's world.  John on Patmos wasn't talking about something happening thousands of years down the road...he was talking about his time...

He could not have a 'vision' of the future because the future doesn't exist.  He was extrapolating the events of his day...not predicting anything.  The future doesn't exist.  Except as anticipation in our own thought processes.  

 

[odas]

9 hours ago, and-then said:

Fair enough.  Let's say Iran tests a nuke next year and declares themselves a nuclear weapons state.  What happens in a few months or years when that government decides to impose its will on shipping through the Straits of Hormuz.  Consider this a thought exercise.  Go with the assumption.  The mullahs decide they are going to charge some fee for every vessel that passes through the Straits.  Who will say no?  What government will go to war with them if they begin sinking trade vessels who won't pay?  If they board and take possession of ships and crews, who will be able to stop them?  What then?  Is everyone still on an even footing?

 

Whataboutism. The strait is between Oman, UAE and Iran but is controlled mostly by the US. Everything can happen, initiated by either one side. 

[+Hammerclaw]

On 11/3/2022 at 6:58 AM, joc said:

 Honestly and-then...George Orwell's novel 1984 has more prophetic relevance than Revelations in the Bible.  Everything you just said is rooted in  your Armageddon Hal Lindsey type belief. 

No one knows really whether Israel has nuclear capabilities or not.  I would imagine they do.  But we are talking about them giving up something we don't even know they have.  

Exactly, which gives them plausible deniability. Since Pakistan has the bomb, any country with the cash could buy the tech from them. 

[spartan max2]

Ideally no one would have nukes. But I can't imagine a nation that would give thiers up while others still have them.

Especially when we see bad actors like Russia try to use the threat of Nukes to get what they want 

[Tatetopa]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:35 AM, and-then said:

Nor SHOULD it.  Anyone who deeply desires that is a person who is either childishly naive about the hate against the Jews or they also would not be troubled by all of her neighbors joining to destroy Israel.  There WILL be a cataclysmic war there eventually, but it won't be due to Israel attacking her neighbors.  Her "neighbors" will align themselves against Israel and there will be massive loss of life that could have been avoided but for the hate taught in Islam for the Jews.  

True enough. .  You seem to be forgetting the Western Christian tradition of hatred for the Jews that is still going strong after 2,000 years. Were I Jewish, I would not completely trust Europe or the US to have my best interests at heart either.

[odas]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

True enough. .  You seem to be forgetting the Western Christian tradition of hatred for the Jews that is still going strong after 2,000 years. Were I Jewish, I would not completely trust Europe or the US to have my best interests at heart either.

Good point. Which brings me to ask a few questions. Woke. That word/accusation has been going on for a while now. Everytime someone disagrees with a viewpoint the right has, they are accused of being Woke.

Antisemitism. Everytime someone disagrees with Israel's politics, they are accused of being antisemits.

Am I an antisemit if I accuse Israel of apartheid and terrorism, which I do.? If yes, why am I not accused of being an Islamophob, or, again as an antisemite, if I accuse Saudi Arabia and Iran of appartheid and terrorism, which I do.?

Israelies and Arabs, not Iranians though, are both semits. So why is this accusation only thrown around when Israel is mentioned?

Anyone?

 

 

[+joc]

3 hours ago, odas said:

Good point. Which brings me to ask a few questions. Woke. That word/accusation has been going on for a while now. Everytime someone disagrees with a viewpoint the right has, they are accused of being Woke.

Antisemitism. Everytime someone disagrees with Israel's politics, they are accused of being antisemits.

Am I an antisemit if I accuse Israel of apartheid and terrorism, which I do.? If yes, why am I not accused of being an Islamophob, or, again as an antisemite, if I accuse Saudi Arabia and Iran of appartheid and terrorism, which I do.?

Israelies and Arabs, not Iranians though, are both semits. So why is this accusation only thrown around when Israel is mentioned?

Anyone?

 

 

I don't have anything against Jewish people.  I have no prejudice towards Blacks or Arabs.  I have nothing against Israel.  

There are some Jews that I don't like very much.  There are some Black people I don't like very much.  And there are some Arabs I don't like either.  But that's on an individual basis.  

I don't have much really against the Islamist Jihadists...they are murdering jackals but they do it because they believe their God demands it.  Not a lot different from the Israelites of the OT.  Not much different from the Christians of the Crusades.

They are just names Odas.  They're just names.

[odas]

16 hours ago, joc said:

I don't have anything against Jewish people.  I have no prejudice towards Blacks or Arabs.  I have nothing against Israel.  

There are some Jews that I don't like very much.  There are some Black people I don't like very much.  And there are some Arabs I don't like either.  But that's on an individual basis.  

I don't have much really against the Islamist Jihadists...they are murdering jackals but they do it because they believe their God demands it.  Not a lot different from the Israelites of the OT.  Not much different from the Christians of the Crusades.

They are just names Odas.  They're just names.

Thanks Joc. I however despise and hate the islamist jihadists for many reasons. Those are just murderers that oppress and kill anyone who does not agree with them, muslims, jews, christians alike. In fact the vast number of their victims are muslims anyway. 

[+and-then]

On 11/13/2022 at 8:27 PM, joc said:

Neither Russia, nor Iran, nor Turkey are mentioned in revelations. 

You are correct.  I wasn't the one talking about the book of revelation.  The particular books are Ezekiel and Isaiah.  As I'm sure you know, when those were written, there was no nation named Russia.  There was no nation named Turkey.  Even Persia had yet to be renamed Iran.  The nations that are mentioned refer to the people groups that would inhabit that geography in the future.  Can you cite another time in history when Iran (Shia) and Turkey (Sunni) have made common cause in their hatred of the Jews of Israel?  I stand to be corrected, but I can't find any such reference.  Tell me, joc, if Russia, Iran, and Turkey form a coalition of the willing and surround Israel, and attack them, would you then believe the predictions were supernatural, God-inspired?

Edited November 17, 2022 by and-then

[+joc]

8 minutes ago, and-then said:

You are correct.  I wasn't the one talking about the book of revelation.  The particular books are Ezekiel and Isaiah.  As I'm sure you know, when those were written, there was no nation named Russia.  There was no nation named Turkey.  Even Persia had yet to be renamed Iran.  The nations that are mentioned refer to the people groups that would inhabit that geography in the future.  Can you cite another time in history when Iran (Shia) and Turkey (Sunni) have made common cause in their hatred of the Jews of Israel?  I stand to be corrected, but I can't find any such reference.  Tell me, joc, if Russia, Iran, and Turkey form a coalition of the willing and surround Israel, and attack them, would you then believe the predictions were supernatural, God-inspired?

I believe that when people have to start picking these verses and matching them with those verses...to get a picture of the truth...then the picture they wind up getting is the picture they set out to find all along.  I don't buy any of it and-then...